103 replies to this topic

[Navid A1]

Trauglodyte, on 17 June 2016 - 04:02 PM, said:

It did get a little bit bigger but not enough for it to make a difference.

"Making a difference" was the point of the re-scale. It went the opposite way!

[Bishop Steiner]

Chimera11, on 17 June 2016 - 04:02 PM, said:

I didn't even pay attention to the comparison chart at first. As I said though, mechs are now more uniform so while the Adder was always on the large end comparatively, other lights around it are similar in size now. I do wonder how Jenners will perform now, that's a pretty decent increase.

Well, if they hadn't spoiled Light pilots for so long with being massively undersized and lag shield protected.....

I predict a LOT of QQ.

And you know what that means? UBER QUIRKS TO THE RESCUE!!!!!

Mcgral18, on 17 June 2016 - 04:04 PM, said:

For that, you need to see IS Lights (the Sadder is currently terribly scaled...then this)
http://mwomercs.com/...ight-re-scales/

yes, they are finally in scale with the rest of the mechs.

[DAYLEET]

Alistair Winter, on 17 June 2016 - 03:56 PM, said:

Well, looks like it got about 1% bigger. The biggest issue with the Adder is that it suffers from the MWO implementation of TT rules. It's supposed to be a small and slow, but powerful light mech with significant firepower. Well, due to how Omnimechs work in MWO (e.g. no hardpoint inflation) it doesn't really have all that crazy firepower. Moreover, its firepower, even with quirks and everything else, doesn't compensate for its lack of speed.

In my opinion, only Locust 1V-level acceleration and agility quirks can save the Adder.

My Adder did unexpectedly well with a lb10x+3cerml. Stay close to your heavies and assault and its like you are invisible while you dish a shitload of damage.

[Darian DelFord]

Bishop Steiner, on 17 June 2016 - 04:05 PM, said:

Well, if they hadn't spoiled Light pilots for so long with being massively undersized and lag shield protected.....

I predict a LOT of QQ.

And you know what that means? UBER QUIRKS TO THE RESCUE!!!!!


yes, they are finally in scale with the rest of the mechs.

I lost Lag shield about 2 years ago. I die quite easily if I am caught in the open.

[Chimera_]

Bishop Steiner, on 17 June 2016 - 04:05 PM, said:

Well, if they hadn't spoiled Light pilots for so long with being massively undersized and lag shield protected.....

I predict a LOT of QQ.

And you know what that means? UBER QUIRKS TO THE RESCUE!!!!!


yes, they are finally in scale with the rest of the mechs.

I do fear light mechs will be ridiculously easy to take out now...a lot of their survivability comes from small size, making weapons (especially lasers and srm/lbx/c-uac) spread dmg between the various hitboxes pretty well, generally. Now, it looks like many lights will have easily focus-able torsos...

Like I said, I'm not going to call anything quite yet but I think it's highly likely lights are going to be even less used now.

[Bishop Steiner]

Chimera11, on 17 June 2016 - 04:10 PM, said:

I do fear light mechs will be ridiculously easy to take out now...a lot of their survivability comes from small size, making weapons (especially lasers and srm/lbx/c-uac) spread dmg between the various hitboxes pretty well, generally. Now, it looks like many lights will have easily focus-able torsos...

Like I said, I'm not going to call anything quite yet but I think it's highly likely lights are going to be even less used now.

perhaps now they'll focus on making the lights accelerate better, liek the Locust.

IDK..still see 2-3 Oxides run right into the thick of it every match and barely register a hit.

[Mcgral18]

I guess I should say:

Thank you PGI for putting these pictures together and in such a nice display format


There are no complaints in regards to that...just the contents.

[Bishop Steiner]

Folks want a see a mech that is getting screwed go look at the new VND Quirks.... lol. Everyone hates Liao.

Swapped armor for Structure... barely any scale change... and the weapons/mobility stay the same, hence baby stays in the corner.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 17 June 2016 - 04:16 PM.

[Chimera_]

Bishop Steiner, on 17 June 2016 - 04:15 PM, said:

Folks want a see a mech that is getting screwed go look at the new VND Quirks.... lol. Everyone hates Liao.

Come now, we all know machine gun ROF and structure is all the Vindi needed. It'd be simply OP with anything more.

[Bishop Steiner]

Chimera11, on 17 June 2016 - 04:16 PM, said:

Come now, we all know machine gun ROF and structure is all the Vindi needed. It'd be simply OP with anything more.

But PXH got way better MG quirks bro! Anything to sell mechpacks!!!!

[Barantor]

Bishop Steiner, on 17 June 2016 - 04:15 PM, said:

Folks want a see a mech that is getting screwed go look at the new VND Quirks.... lol. Everyone hates Liao.

Swapped armor for Structure... barely any scale change... and the weapons/mobility stay the same, hence baby stays in the corner.

At least it got noticed.

#trebuchetsad4ever

[D1SC0 LEM0NADE]

The P-Hawk is f@ckin huge for it's weight. Its is going to get chewed up.

[Alexander Garden]

Bishop Steiner, on 17 June 2016 - 03:58 PM, said:

we are given a complete size comparo sheet with them marked off in meters even. Only thing more we realyl need, IMO, and I asked Alexander about it, is a list of what % up/down each mech was changed.

While I was working up the final method for displaying the changes I bounced between displaying a few systems of measurement.

Certain 'Mechs were easier to display with measurement changes; something like the Catapult obviously changed drastically in all three dimensions, but something like the Awesome made it difficult to settle on a value that made sense, and if I couldn't use the same method for displaying measurement changes for all 'Mechs consistently, I didn't want to use one at all. It was important to me that the comparison images were identical with each other, and I wanted to try and avoid cluttering the images with multiple measurement methods, or potentially confusing things with measurements which may not really convey the changes.

For the Awesome its shoulder pieces keep it at the same max height of 15 meters, but obviously its Torso underwent clear changes. However, its volume didn't change at all. So if I were to give you the percentile change for the Awesome it would be 0%, which obviously isn't reflective of how it changed.

[NoiseCrypt]

D1SC0 LEM0NADE, on 17 June 2016 - 04:31 PM, said:

The P-Hawk is f@ckin huge for it's weight. Its is going to get chewed up.

If you play it like an assault.... yes....

[Bishop Steiner]

Alexander Garden, on 17 June 2016 - 04:33 PM, said:

While I was working up the final method for displaying the changes I bounced between displaying a few systems of measurement.

Certain 'Mechs were easier to display with measurement changes; something like the Catapult obviously changed drastically in all three dimensions, but something like the Awesome made it difficult to settle on a value that made sense, and if I couldn't use the same method for displaying measurement changes for all 'Mechs consistently, I didn't want to use one at all. It was important to me that the comparison images were identical with each other, and I wanted to try and avoid cluttering the images with multiple measurement methods, or potentially confusing things with measurements which may not really convey the changes.

For the Awesome its shoulder pieces keep it at the same max height of 15 meters, but obviously its Torso underwent clear changes. However, its volume didn't change at all. So if I were to give you the percentile change for the Awesome it would be 0%, which obviously isn't reflective of how it changed.

Yeah I understand that, and I appreciate all you have done. All I'm saying is that at least for me, I wouldn't mind seeing % changed with the picture even though some will be 0% by volume...which you guys always said would be the case, anyhow.

Regardless, I'm certainly not complaining. I just always like even more info. Generally allows for even more accurate arguments (which are usually, though not always defending PGI, not attacking). And even if I second guess you, it's more often that I would liek to understand something better.

Anyhow...I think the rescale comparo graph says a LOT.

[Cerulean Knight]

I'm not sure why people are freaking out over this at the moment. You really can't compare these mechs to what we know now. Far too many of them have changed for us to know how they will perform compared to some of the other mechs. For example, one of the main complaints people had about the Orion was that it was big compared to other mechs in its weight range. Well, now those mechs are on par with it. Maybe this seemingly medicore mech will be on par with its siblings now that they do not use "I-Guess-This-Is-Right™" scaling ( when compared to other mechs).

Do I know for sure? Nope. All I can do is make a guess based on a few screen shots. I could be wrong. The Orion might perform worse in this new environment. I don't see how, but, again, I don't know. In fact, not one of us will know until Tuesday.

But if people insist on being salty about this rescale before Tuesday, I'm going to make some popcorn - it would be a shame if the salt went to waste.


*Edit: correction, and we can base it on the lovely graph they made for us, which is a better indicator of what to expect

Edited by Cerulean Knight, 17 June 2016 - 04:42 PM.

[Aramoro999]

Alexander Garden, on 17 June 2016 - 04:33 PM, said:

While I was working up the final method for displaying the changes I bounced between displaying a few systems of measurement.

Certain 'Mechs were easier to display with measurement changes; something like the Catapult obviously changed drastically in all three dimensions, but something like the Awesome made it difficult to settle on a value that made sense, and if I couldn't use the same method for displaying measurement changes for all 'Mechs consistently, I didn't want to use one at all. It was important to me that the comparison images were identical with each other, and I wanted to try and avoid cluttering the images with multiple measurement methods, or potentially confusing things with measurements which may not really convey the changes.

For the Awesome its shoulder pieces keep it at the same max height of 15 meters, but obviously its Torso underwent clear changes. However, its volume didn't change at all. So if I were to give you the percentile change for the Awesome it would be 0%, which obviously isn't reflective of how it changed.

we need a, what is it called "half cut"? cut each of the pictures in half and glue them together, for a direct comparison.

[ScarecrowES]

LT. HARDCASE, on 17 June 2016 - 03:42 PM, said:

Get Scarecrow in here so he can tell us again how this SCIENCE is infallible.

Poof! You summoned me?

You know, I was concerned going through some of the mechs... seeing some that I never felt needed to be changed that got bigger or smaller, and some of the ones that got bigger got a LOT bigger.

But then I noticed at the bottom of the rescale pages was a full spectrum of mechs all side-by-side, and my concern melted away.

There is no mech on that sheet that looks out of place. You can tell the difference in weight between mechs just by looking at them.

So you can cry about certain mechs getting bigger and smaller, and the difference for that particular mech might seem huge when you're looking just at IT... but if you look at the whole swath of mechs, you'll see volumetric scaling did it's job. There are NO outliers.

[Mcgral18]

ScarecrowES, on 17 June 2016 - 06:11 PM, said:

So you can cry about certain mechs getting bigger and smaller, and the difference for that particular mech might seem huge when you're looking just at IT... but if you look at the whole swath of mechs, you'll see volumetric scaling did it's job. There are NO outliers.

Only Terribad robots

[ScarecrowES]

Mcgral18, on 17 June 2016 - 06:18 PM, said:

Only Terribad robots

True... but terribads are terribad no matter how big they are. We shouldn't use size to balance suckiness... we should just remove size from the list of things that could possibly making a mech sucky. Now, if a mech is bad, it's not because it's the wrong size.

As we'd discussed before the rescale reveal, the Blackjack went up, and the Vindicator went down. The sky did NOT fall. Looking at them side-by-side, they both look like they're the same weight.

Now those two mechs can stand on their own. If the Vindi is worse than the Jack, it's because the Vindi is worse for other reasons... not because it was 3% larger than the Jack.