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Highlander Iic Still Bad?


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#1 Requiemking

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Posted 25 June 2016 - 03:25 PM

So, before the Rescale the Highlander IIC was considered a trash-tier Clan Assault, mainly because of how painfully slow it was. Now that it has quirks, especially the accel/decel quirks it needed, is it still the "High-end trash-tier" Clan Assault? Or is it now actually useful?

#2 Nightshade24

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Posted 25 June 2016 - 04:32 PM

No 'Mech in MechWarrior: Online is ever bad.
PGI has worked amazing wonders in terms of balancing with quirks and clan weapon tweeks and such.
In MW: O the only thing that can be bad is the MechWarriors personal performance in the mech.

There may be mechs that is more specialized then others and may shine in areas some mechs do not (or care about).

But the Highlander IIC is not a mech that is or was bad. It had one of the best juggernaut capabilities of the time with a potential of SRM 6 and UAC 10 boating with ER medium lasers or pulse lasers. It has the ability to boat LRM's quite heavily. It can be a great mobile ER PPC platform or just fit into it's traditional Highlander-y shoes.
Some mechwarriors really like it back then and now and nothing has changed much for them. I always did well in my Highlander IIC's, and I still do well in them.

Some MechWarriors do not like the play style with the Highlander IIC/ Highlander, or it's intended role, etc. Which is completely understandable. However it doesn't make the 'Mech bad just because you can't do well in it or do not like it. What would make it bad is that universally it was poor for everyone. (which is very rarely these days due to quirks however new mechs ariving without them may be subject to discussion).

#3 Audacious Aubergine

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Posted 25 June 2016 - 06:35 PM

They seem to have made it even bigger, if that affects your judgement at all?

#4 Wintersdark

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Posted 25 June 2016 - 08:15 PM

View PostAudacious Aubergine, on 25 June 2016 - 06:35 PM, said:

They seem to have made it even bigger, if that affects your judgement at all?

It makes no difference. Nobody is missing Highlanders to start with; being a tiny bit larger (mostly, a tiny bit taller) doesn't impact anything.

#5 grendeldog

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Posted 27 June 2016 - 09:06 PM

View PostNightshade24, on 25 June 2016 - 04:32 PM, said:

No 'Mech in MechWarrior: Online is ever bad.
PGI has worked amazing wonders in terms of balancing with quirks and clan weapon tweeks and such.
In MW: O the only thing that can be bad is the MechWarriors personal performance in the mech.

There may be mechs that is more specialized then others and may shine in areas some mechs do not (or care about).

But the Highlander IIC is not a mech that is or was bad. It had one of the best juggernaut capabilities of the time with a potential of SRM 6 and UAC 10 boating with ER medium lasers or pulse lasers. It has the ability to boat LRM's quite heavily. It can be a great mobile ER PPC platform or just fit into it's traditional Highlander-y shoes.
Some mechwarriors really like it back then and now and nothing has changed much for them. I always did well in my Highlander IIC's, and I still do well in them.

Some MechWarriors do not like the play style with the Highlander IIC/ Highlander, or it's intended role, etc. Which is completely understandable. However it doesn't make the 'Mech bad just because you can't do well in it or do not like it. What would make it bad is that universally it was poor for everyone. (which is very rarely these days due to quirks however new mechs ariving without them may be subject to discussion).

Agreed heartily. I thought that the Highlander IIC was on par with the Hunch IIC for most fun in that pack. And 'fun' doesn't mean 'ineffective', nor does it mean 'LRM boat'. In truth, the Highlander IIC with the 4 giant M hardpoints was the one I didn't touch.

My favorite is the prime variant - UAC/20, 3 MPL, and a bunch of SRMs. I could rack kills up and tank like no tomorrow - for whatever reason the DWF has always felt impossibly slow, likewise lower engine Atlai. Yet Maulers and the Highlander IIC go just as slow yet they do not feel slow to me, and I haven't even played with these since they got a ton of mobility quirks.

I suspect that has less to do with actual speed and more to do with my preferred playstyle - what exactly the factor would be that makes equally fast mechs feel either excruciatingly slow or feel normal I don't know, but it's there for me for sure.

Anyway I'm sure these mechs are better still now that they've been mobility quirked. Don't write them off cause some people don't like them; that can be said for any chassis. I'm not claiming that these mechs are meta mind you, simply that they are effective in the right hands.

Edited by grendeldog, 27 June 2016 - 09:10 PM.


#6 Dirty Scrub Casual

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Posted 29 June 2016 - 03:37 PM

When I want a lighter Assault I choose my Highlander IIC without reservation.

Even my beloved Kodiak SB can't fit what a Highlander IIC can fit. I had to ton-down my KDK-SB engine to fit what I can get on a Highlander IIC stock.

... and to hell with the "meta"... jus' sayin'...

#7 B L O O D W I T C H

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Posted 29 June 2016 - 03:54 PM

View PostWintersdark, on 25 June 2016 - 08:15 PM, said:

It makes no difference. Nobody is missing Highlanders to start with; being a tiny bit larger (mostly, a tiny bit taller) doesn't impact anything.


lol, so true.

#8 Not A Real RAbbi

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Posted 29 June 2016 - 04:03 PM

I WAS just looking at engine stats and free weight and speed, across all the weights. I didn't realize until I did that, that the Highlanders are uniquely screwed. Biggest engine on any of them, is 330. Most get a 325 cap. That's DISMALLY slow. 85-tonners get a 400 engine cap. 95 tonners are like 380 or 400. 90 tonners? Omnimechs notwithstanding, "There can be only one".

Sorry. Had to be done.

Anyhow, I get why PGI determines the max engine rating the way they do. But I strongly believe they ought to make an exception here. A faster HGN isn't going to revive the old poptart meta that got us HoverJets™. It MIGHT, however, just sell a few more HGNs if they would be built fast enough to keep up with the Maulers...

#9 Jables McBarty

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Posted 29 June 2016 - 05:04 PM

Still bad? Nope.

Created an IMGR account just in the hopes I could upload these...

Granted, these are all in the C, but at that point it was the only one I had yet to Elite (by the end of the day I had mastered it--these shots are all within a 3-hour window of gameplay).

Others are performing just as strongly for me. But another disclaimer--the HGN-IIC is my most played chassis. Not sure if it's "competitive" but if you already have them it's worth taking them out of the garage. That little bit of agility and structure are enough to make it a consistent threat.

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Edited by Jables McBarty, 29 June 2016 - 05:16 PM.


#10 Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky

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Posted 29 June 2016 - 06:51 PM

While it seems many people disagree with me...

I think its low engine cap, terrible hard points, low engine cap, amusing jump jet capability, and its low engine cap make it a substandard battlemech.

Its slow as dire wolf, without the devistating weapon loadout capabilities.

But eh, thats my opinion... Take it with a grain of salt

#11 Anunaki

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Posted 29 June 2016 - 10:55 PM

I got this as a loyalty reward awhile back. First stock run I did 700+ damage and fealt vital to my teams victory. It does not boat anything very well, but it can bring enough of just about everything to still be a force to reaken with on the battlefield. It is one of the few mechs I have found in the game that can throw synergy out the window and fight well at any range really. Is it perfect Meta for Meta snobs... no, but it may suprise you how well it does. Is it slow? Sure... but trust me, you have a lot to hang out with back there. Dire Wolf's etc... It can crush unsuspecting solo ques, that's for sure. So... not Meta, but not trash either.

Edited by Anunaki, 29 June 2016 - 10:56 PM.


#12 Vermin

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Posted 29 June 2016 - 11:52 PM

I thought about about mechs being good or bad, or blaming the pilot for his play style not matching the equipped mech.

But as long as one variant stands out among Mechs there will indeed be good ones and bad ones. (raven 3L days). PGI does do a fairly decent job though at providing some balance to the game, but lets face it. this isn't chess, there will always be balance issues. BV values, tonnage limits. these are good indicators.

A good jockey can identify the lemons in mech purchasing, and of course can rockem sockem with any robot. This does not mean that the pilot is in a decent machine.

Speaking of decent machines, this is the world of min/max game play. Not the best, really can mean terrible. The nature of MWO means that you wil be putting lots and lots of time into chasis that exist only for you to max out and sell to max one variant of a mech.

but heck, 'good bad. It's a mech with a gun.'

I suppose the exception is of course clan omni's

Edited by Vermin, 29 June 2016 - 11:59 PM.


#13 STEF_

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Posted 30 June 2016 - 01:07 AM

reading HGC-2C fans..... and starting wondering why there is no HGC-2C in no comp match whatsoever at all....

Am I missing something? or...you, fans?

#14 PhoenixFire55

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Posted 30 June 2016 - 01:11 AM

Sigh ... I can give you a dozen screens with 1000+ dmg in Highlander IIC, it doesn't change the fact that this mech sux. I have 10 mastered Highlanders/Highlanders-IIC in my hangar, and in a current state of the game this is one of the worst mechs you can get. IIC is still by far worse than IS one due to hardpoints.

#15 Roughneck45

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Posted 05 July 2016 - 09:31 AM

I love them, but I just really enjoy highlanders in general. Run 3 Large pulse and a UAC10 with an XL325 I think?

Their biggest drawback is the CT, its a bullet magnet without some serious torso twisting.

#16 smokytehbear

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Posted 05 July 2016 - 10:01 AM

The HGN IIC-C is fantastic, and has been even before the rescale. It's a perfect mech to get nearly the same free tonnage for weaponry in as a DWF and not suffer the horrifically slow mobility the DWF does. Top speed isn't too much different but the acceleration and turning/twisting is immensely so. The Kodiak sort of made this point superfluous, but it is still 10 tons lighter for dropdeck purposes.

The hardpoints leave something to be desired, but the low arm guns are partially made up for by the lower arm actuator, giving it a tad more maneuverability. It's probably the worst mech in the game for hilly terrain (ironically) due to its height and more important the distance from cockpit to the main weapons, but it does okay in more level and open terrain.

It's not a tank, it's not fast, but it does pack some serious heat. Think of it as an open ground, second-line fire support. Maybe that's a niche, I don't know, but I've done plenty of 1000+ damage games in them as well and prefer them to the Clan 100-tonners in complete honesty. I was surprised and thrilled they quirked this variant as much as they did. I would have argued it wasn't needed at all.

The other variants are pretty much trash.

View PostSister RAbbi, on 29 June 2016 - 04:03 PM, said:

I WAS just looking at engine stats and free weight and speed, across all the weights. I didn't realize until I did that, that the Highlanders are uniquely screwed. Biggest engine on any of them, is 330. Most get a 325 cap.


99.9% sure all of them are 325 max.

View PostAleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky, on 29 June 2016 - 06:51 PM, said:


Its slow as dire wolf, without the devistating weapon loadout capabilities.



The DWF gets about 4 more tons. 56 to ~52. Only. That's also with max engine in the HGN-IIC which will be almost twice as mobile in. DWF's can't carry squat because they have neither endo nor FF, despite their tonnage being higher and holding them back maneuverability and speed wise. I'll give you the Highlander's hardpoints are worse, but the C variant has more than enough hardpoints to make use of that full weight, in various ways even.

View PostStefka Kerensky, on 30 June 2016 - 01:07 AM, said:

reading HGC-2C fans..... and starting wondering why there is no HGC-2C in no comp match whatsoever at all....

Am I missing something? or...you, fans?


And come on, that's not fair. Have you seen a DWF either? Just because the Kodiak is that OP doesn't mean everything else is terrible.

There's been like 10 mechs total in the world tournament cycling through teams. Just because you're not the best mech in the game doesn't mean you're trash and unusable.

Edited by smokytehbear, 05 July 2016 - 10:14 AM.


#17 Requiemking

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Posted 05 July 2016 - 10:22 AM

Thanks for the continued input guys. I see the draw of the Highlanders. I asked a friend in my unit and he suggested I run an arsenal build, this one as a matter of fact.

Cuchulainn

The LRM 20 is to be used while you are getting to combat, the MPLs are for mid- to close-range, often in conjunction with the UAC 20, and the SSRM 12 array is to be used with the UAC 20 against leghumping lights.

#18 smokytehbear

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Posted 05 July 2016 - 10:42 AM

This is what I currently use in Quickplay:

Li Song Link: http://t.li-soft.org...KlSpVxViqVKlWVb
Smurfy link: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...4c3ffc71ff150ad

For 1v1 Solaris it's a bit different, dropping the LRM, some UAC ammo and a tiny bit off the engine for another LPL and some more heat sinks. But I digress.

I strongly recommend against LRM 20 in every case. It simply isn't mathematically effective unless there is just absolutely nothing else you can spend that tonnage on. While this is a prime variant you've got and I linked you the C variant (hands-down the best one), I do strongly recommend not to use LRM 20 all the same. The spread is enormous and the cooldown is long, you'll get more damage and better damage out of a 10+A or a 5+A or even just a flat 5.

Just my quick tips.

#19 Felio

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Posted 05 July 2016 - 10:54 AM

They gave it:

+10 structure side torsi and legs
+15 structure center torso
+8 armor arms
+45% accel/decel
+35% turn rate
+15% torso twist rate

I don't think it's the engine cap. I'm a speed freak, but I still don't think it's the engine cap. Even with an XL 325 it struggles to bring any firepower due to the low number of oddly placed hardpoints. The IIC is the worst of them all, which is upsetting because I like playing the bonus mechs.

#20 Jables McBarty

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Posted 05 July 2016 - 11:16 AM

View PostPhoenixFire55, on 30 June 2016 - 01:11 AM, said:

Sigh ... I can give you a dozen screens with 1000+ dmg in Highlander IIC, it doesn't change the fact that this mech sux. I have 10 mastered Highlanders/Highlanders-IIC in my hangar, and in a current state of the game this is one of the worst mechs you can get. IIC is still by far worse than IS one due to hardpoints.


First of all, I want to humbly thank you on behalf of all other posters in this thread for gracing it with your Tier 1, consistent 1K-damage scoring, eminently recognizable name.

Perhaps I should have prefaced my screens by stating I regularly rate about 500-600 damage in my HGN-IICs, and that an 800+ damage score was a euphoric outlier. With the agility quirks and structure buffs, I am now regularly hitting 700-1000 damage per game. So it's a significant bump of about 200 damage per match.

And I humbly beg your forgiveness for posting such paltry scores on the Forums, O GREAT ONE, but please understand that about 15% of my meager 3000 matches have been in a HGN-IIC, and the quirk love felt so good that I just had to share them.

View PostStefka Kerensky, on 30 June 2016 - 01:07 AM, said:

reading HGC-2C fans..... and starting wondering why there is no HGC-2C in no comp match whatsoever at all....

Am I missing something? or...you, fans?


The question in this thread is "Is it no longer trash?" not "Is it top-tier comp level?" These are not the same question.

I've only played a couple matches post-rescale, so I don't know how other chassis are faring, but I'd say it's definitely in a stronger place than before.

If a player is looking for the next metamech, no, don't get the HGN-IICs.

But if a player is looking for a fun, challenging 'mech that won't be purely an exercise in masochism, then yes, the HGN-IIC is a viable option.





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