12 replies to this topic

[RestosIII]

One of the first mechs I decided to test with this system was the Dire Wolf/Daishi Prime. Instantly I realized that if you fire the default weapon group 4 (quad Medium Pulse Lasers) you've gone over the current energy limit. The backup secondary weapons on a 100 ton assault trigger spooky energy. That's not a good sign. Currently going through making sure there aren't any other examples, but that has already set a bad precedent for me.

[stabbitystyle]

You could volley fire them.

[RestosIII]

stabbitystyle, on 18 August 2016 - 04:41 PM, said:

You could volley fire them.

Volley fire 4 MPLas. What.

[stabbitystyle]

RestosIII, on 18 August 2016 - 04:46 PM, said:

Volley fire 4 MPLas. What.

You could fire them all at once and see how negligible the penalty is.

[ExAstra]

Yes, it triggers Ghost heat.

It gives you 1 more heat than you would have otherwise generated, not that big of a deal.

8x4=32
32-30=2
2*.5=1

1 extra heat.

It is important to keep in mind that this ghost heat system is a bit fairer than the old one - where, for example, firing one too many lasers might make it as if you'd fire an entire extra laser or two on your heat. In this example, you're hit by a measly 1 heat.

Edited by ExAstra, 18 August 2016 - 05:13 PM.

[Nebuchednezzar]

This has got to be the WORST option PGI has considered putting into play. Stock mechs that Alpha or even chain fire and overheat will never be able to fire more than once using this system without major issues.

Energy draw being equivalent to the damage done renders the CUAC20's relatively useless let alone an IS UAC20. 1 shot and they're in a heat penalty. What this is going to do is really render the game unplayable with stop start mechanics. Players will simply learn to pick a single target 12V1 in a civil war firing line and blow up mechs one at a time. The winning team will be the one with the smaller weapons with lesser heat/energy penalties for firing.

There is already a gross lack of tactics of any kind for the most part where every map and player tends to do the same thing. Run into the middle and see who blows up the enemy mechs faster.

Here's the pros and cons I see without even playing it. Light / medium mechs using med lasers will be able to continually chain fire and assault mechs won't be able to fire their primary heavy weapons more than once without incurring a penalty. It'll also make the option of carrying a heavier weapon on some mechs (Like a hunchback with UAC20) from being able to effectively use them.

Also, how do you account for a Ballistic / missile weapon which DOESN'T use energy to fire beyond the trigger command and propels the round via propellant fuel or powder charge to use energy based on it's damage outlay let alone heat dissipation? I know there has to be some suspension of reality / physics in order for this to be feasible but we don't have battlemechs and our soldiers on the ground don't have a heat / energy consumption issue with ANY Ballistic / missile system using current technology.

Let's go back to a little Old School FASA lore here. Battlemechs run on FUSION REACTORS. A single fusion reactor can power a small city all by it's lonesome and yet it can't adequately power the weapons systems on a battlemech? I think at that level of technology they'd have licked a power drain issue otherwise a mech wouldn't be a feasible vehicle to begin with.

Some weapons don't generate enough heat significant enough to cause a heat issue like firing machine guns that use heat sinks used to cool a fusion reactor. Speaking as someone who helped write Tech readout 3050 for FASA back in the day, this 'feature' will completely unbalance the game mechanics and render the game far more annoying to play than enjoyable to play.

IMO: drop this 'feature' as it's not going to add any value to game play.

[Andi Nagasia]

just like the Nova though i dont think the Creators intended for you to Volley Fire 6ER-MLs,

Edit-
Well not in a FPS setting anyway,

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 18 August 2016 - 05:19 PM.

[Nebuchednezzar]

Andi Nagasia, on 18 August 2016 - 05:19 PM, said:

just like the Nova though i dont think the Creators intended for you to Volley Fire 6ER-MLs,

Edit-
Well not in a FPS setting anyway,

In the original game, a Med laser was 5 damage, 3 heat. So firing 6 of them meant 18 heat. Depending on the number of heat sinks on the mech, (and in the Nova's case, it would have been 10 Doubles as all engines carried 10 heat sinks standard) so it would have been able to fire an alpha strike once and dissipate the heat generated in a single round but not over multiple rounds.

The heat scale system in place, while not even close to the original game, is workable and as a player you need to learn heat management 101. This new 'feature' strikes me as an attempt to appease the ones who can't learn heat management and need this to slow down their ROF to compensate.

[Andi Nagasia]

Nebuchednezzar, on 18 August 2016 - 05:30 PM, said:

In the original game, a Med laser was 5 damage, 3 heat. So firing 6 of them meant 18 heat. Depending on the number of heat sinks on the mech, (and in the Nova's case, it would have been 10 Doubles as all engines carried 10 heat sinks standard) so it would have been able to fire an alpha strike once and dissipate the heat generated in a single round but not over multiple rounds.

The heat scale system in place, while not even close to the original game, is workable and as a player you need to learn heat management 101. This new 'feature' strikes me as an attempt to appease the ones who can't learn heat management and need this to slow down their ROF to compensate.

but in this case a Clan ER-ML do 7 Damage so 6x7=42damage,

this Feature isnt an attempt to get people to manage their heat better,
as its just targeting Alphas, so its not about controlling your heat but your damage,

[Nebuchednezzar]

Andi Nagasia, on 18 August 2016 - 05:36 PM, said:

but in this case a Clan ER-ML do 7 Damage so 6x7=42damage,

this Feature isnt an attempt to get people to manage their heat better,
as its just targeting Alphas, so its not about controlling your heat but your damage,

This is another reason why PGI needs to leave this feature out. If I can generate a loadout on a mech with their set hardpoints to maximize damage in an alpha strike then they shouldn't have any say over whether I can fire it chained or Alpha. The current system where overheat / suicide works just fine.

I already have a mech that on their 'firepower' scale of 250 can do 116/250 in an alpha strike and it's not even an assault mech. As far as heat spikes go, you can work around that by using multiple firing groups chained one after the other. My mouse allows me to program such macros into it.

[pyrocomp]

Nebuchednezzar, on 18 August 2016 - 06:22 PM, said:

This is another reason why PGI needs to leave this feature out. If I can generate a loadout on a mech with their set hardpoints to maximize damage in an alpha strike then they shouldn't have any say over whether I can fire it chained or Alpha. The current system where overheat / suicide works just fine.

I already have a mech that on their 'firepower' scale of 250 can do 116/250 in an alpha strike and it's not even an assault mech. As far as heat spikes go, you can work around that by using multiple firing groups chained one after the other. My mouse allows me to program such macros into it.

If you was able to manage around GH you will definately be able manage around ED since it is way less strict than GH. Have you tried you builds already?

[Jman5]

It sounds to me like the obvious answer is to just go through and adjust the default weapon groups for these trial mechs that are going over the line.

Edited by Jman5, 18 August 2016 - 06:57 PM.

[Cy Mitchell]

I fired Alphas on my 2 x cLPL/ 4 x cERML. That is a 54 point Alpha and I was still able to fire the 4 ERML again as soon as they came off cooldown without shutting down. Or I can wait slightly longer and fire the two LPLs. The system just eliminated firing back to back Alphas.

I think if you fire a 116 point Alpha in this system the results are going to be about the same as in the present system although the longer cooldown times will mean you will have to wait longer after your Mech wakes up to do it again.