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Goodbye Brawlers And Assault Mechs


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#1 Dingo Battler

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Posted 18 August 2016 - 07:08 PM

You know what MWO needs more? More heavies! The optimum point of a 30 alpha is a heavy or medium, with the biggest engine it can carry. Why take a dire to plink out 30pt alphas, when a blackjack can do the exact same thing at twice the speed?

Brawling gameplay, which is the most exciting style, will be going out of the window.

Instead of a massive 80pt alpha as a punishment for letting an atlas get close to you, now all that pathetic atlas can do is plink out 30 pts slowly, as you run away from it, get to more than 300m away, and casually poke it to death.

The new changes will remove any shred of skill or thinking required to position yourself well, ambush enemies in close range, use cover to move up, or even charging up your gauss rifle. It has turned it into a 360noscopeblazeit420 COD-esque game, where everyone has the same rifles, and run around shooting each other with the exact same 30pt alphas.

This change will be accepted by all the non-thinkers and no-skillers, but anyone with a shred of skill will be gone. I've spent more than $300. All that money down the drain.

Edited by KBurn85, 18 August 2016 - 07:09 PM.


#2 Davers

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Posted 18 August 2016 - 07:12 PM

Well, you can still carry more weapons, just got to wait to fire them all. Fire 3 PPCs, wait 1 second, fire 2 more.

#3 Monkey Lover

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Posted 18 August 2016 - 07:13 PM

With any luck there will be a threshold weight scale. 100ton Assaults should have a bigger punch.

Dont forget this is test #1 they havnt even started to balance it.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 18 August 2016 - 07:14 PM.


#4 Doctor Dinosaur

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Posted 18 August 2016 - 07:14 PM

[ ] You are aware that the 30 energy Cap will differ in the future.

I'm just wondering if it will be related to weight or used engine.

#5 Elizander

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Posted 18 August 2016 - 07:15 PM

Gauss Direwhale should be fine. KDK-3 with alternating CUAC10+5 fire should be fine. 3 PPC Awesome is okay. 6 LL Stalker is your new nightmare. I think 6 LPL Direwhale is okay too.

Pretty much just balance out the numbers. My Grid Iron is super giddy right now.

#6 Dingo Battler

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Posted 18 August 2016 - 07:15 PM

View PostDavers, on 18 August 2016 - 07:12 PM, said:

Well, you can still carry more weapons, just got to wait to fire them all. Fire 3 PPCs, wait 1 second, fire 2 more.


1 second in the higher tiers is massive. 1 second is enough to hide, poke, and get a revenge volley.

Also, brawling requires instantaneous damage due to torso twisting. 1 second is enough for them to 30pt alpha straight into your CT, which is extremely massive for the atlas and KDK. 1 second is long enough for them to twist away.

Even if they increased the CT armour on brawlers, it still sucks, one of the main bit of skill is torso twisting, and now that's gone entirely.

#7 Gas Guzzler

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Posted 18 August 2016 - 07:15 PM

They should definitely give Assaults some extra energy to set them apart from heavies.

#8 Kuaron

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Posted 18 August 2016 - 07:19 PM

The key it the weapon's cooldown. If what OP describes promises to become a problem, even after the cooldown increase, they can increase the cd even more to emphasize having more weapon groups (a 30 dmg) mounted on your whatever-whale.

#9 Cy Mitchell

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Posted 18 August 2016 - 07:20 PM

View PostKBurn85, on 18 August 2016 - 07:08 PM, said:

You know what MWO needs more? More heavies! The optimum point of a 30 alpha is a heavy or medium, with the biggest engine it can carry. Why take a dire to plink out 30pt alphas, when a blackjack can do the exact same thing at twice the speed?

Brawling gameplay, which is the most exciting style, will be going out of the window.

Instead of a massive 80pt alpha as a punishment for letting an atlas get close to you, now all that pathetic atlas can do is plink out 30 pts slowly, as you run away from it, get to more than 300m away, and casually poke it to death.

The new changes will remove any shred of skill or thinking required to position yourself well, ambush enemies in close range, use cover to move up, or even charging up your gauss rifle. It has turned it into a 360noscopeblazeit420 COD-esque game, where everyone has the same rifles, and run around shooting each other with the exact same 30pt alphas.

This change will be accepted by all the non-thinkers and no-skillers, but anyone with a shred of skill will be gone. I've spent more than $300. All that money down the drain.



Have you tried it yet? You can still Alpha. Or you can fire for 30+ and then repeat it a second later for 30+ more and then a second later for 30+ more. Assaults still benefit because they can carry more weapons that can be fired while the first group is cooling down. A Medium will have to wait for most of its weapons to cool down before firing again and a Heavy will have to wait for some of its weapons to cool down before firing again. Assaults will still dish out more damage faster. And most my matches tonight turned into brawls pretty quick so brawling is not dead.

#10 Dingo Battler

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Posted 18 August 2016 - 07:21 PM

View PostElizander, on 18 August 2016 - 07:15 PM, said:

Gauss Direwhale should be fine. KDK-3 with alternating CUAC10+5 fire should be fine. 3 PPC Awesome is okay. 6 LL Stalker is your new nightmare. I think 6 LPL Direwhale is okay too.

Pretty much just balance out the numbers. My Grid Iron is super giddy right now.


How? Direwhale's alpha is 70, more than twice the threshold (2 gauss, 2 LPL, 2 ERML) If I wanted dual gauss, I would have chosen a rifleman or something, twice the speed for the same firepower. No point poking with gauss, then LPL 1 second later, the target would have gone.

I actually pilot a KDK, and the ultra double-tap eats into the energy draw, which is 20/sec, not enough for a full double volley.

#11 ScarecrowES

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Posted 18 August 2016 - 07:23 PM

I do feel like the draw scale should probably increase a little the farther up the weight scale you go. But realistically, you wouldn't need to increase that draw scale much. I mean... I figure 30 for lights, 36 for mediums, 42 for heavies, and 50 for assaults would be more than fine. I think 30 for all mechs is servicable. It COULD work in the live game. But it's too limiting for mechs that big. It removes a lot of the fear one should have of assaults. But we don't need to go to extremes and buff assault alphas amazingly high. Most won't carry an alpha even at 70pts of damage. A limit of 50, I think, would be plenty fair.

#12 Dingo Battler

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Posted 18 August 2016 - 07:23 PM

View PostRampage, on 18 August 2016 - 07:20 PM, said:



Have you tried it yet? You can still Alpha. Or you can fire for 30+ and then repeat it a second later for 30+ more and then a second later for 30+ more. Assaults still benefit because they can carry more weapons that can be fired while the first group is cooling down. A Medium will have to wait for most of its weapons to cool down before firing again and a Heavy will have to wait for some of its weapons to cool down before firing again. Assaults will still dish out more damage faster. And most my matches tonight turned into brawls pretty quick so brawling is not dead.


No offence, but if you tried that in higher tiers, only your first alpha would hit. They would be long gone by the time you even think about firing your second one, or they would unload a 30pt alpha straight into your CT.

No point torso twisting in brawls anymore. removes the skill out of it entirely, same as the gauss. It really pandering to the #360noscopeblazeit420 crowd

#13 Kuaron

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Posted 18 August 2016 - 07:24 PM

View PostKBurn85, on 18 August 2016 - 07:21 PM, said:

I actually pilot a KDK, and the ultra double-tap eats into the energy draw, which is 20/sec, not enough for a full double volley.


Than it's a successful nerf, I'd say. Posted Image

Edited by Kuaron, 18 August 2016 - 07:25 PM.


#14 Elizander

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Posted 18 August 2016 - 07:27 PM

View PostKBurn85, on 18 August 2016 - 07:21 PM, said:


How? Direwhale's alpha is 70, more than twice the threshold (2 gauss, 2 LPL, 2 ERML) If I wanted dual gauss, I would have chosen a rifleman or something, twice the speed for the same firepower. No point poking with gauss, then LPL 1 second later, the target would have gone.

I actually pilot a KDK, and the ultra double-tap eats into the energy draw, which is 20/sec, not enough for a full double volley.


I said you alternate since it's 30 for a double tap of 1x UAC10 + 1x UAC5. Pretty much what people do for 4x UAC10 now.

Direwhale with 2x Gauss + 2x ER PPC (with extra light killing power due to lack of charge mechanic) is okay. Someone mentioned the overheat was only 13-14 extra if you alpha and I do switch between alpha and volleying the two weapons.

You can also try 6 LPLs and fire in 3 groups like the Stalker 4N does with large lasers.

I also believe that 2x LBX20s will only consume 30 energy for those worried about brawling and heat. 4x LBX10s should be in the same boat and use up only 30 energy for KDKs that don't wanna bother splitting their weapon groups.

#15 FupDup

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Posted 18 August 2016 - 07:31 PM

Assaults with dakka, PPCs, and/or Gauss are doing pretty well on the PTS right now.

#16 Dingo Battler

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Posted 18 August 2016 - 07:32 PM

View PostElizander, on 18 August 2016 - 07:27 PM, said:


I said you alternate since it's 30 for a double tap of 1x UAC10 + 1x UAC5. Pretty much what people do for 4x UAC10 now.

Direwhale with 2x Gauss + 2x ER PPC (with extra light killing power due to lack of charge mechanic) is okay. Someone mentioned the overheat was only 13-14 extra if you alpha and I do switch between alpha and volleying the two weapons.

You can also try 6 LPLs and fire in 3 groups like the Stalker 4N does with large lasers.

I also believe that 2x LBX20s will only consume 30 energy for those worried about brawling and heat. 4x LBX10s should be in the same boat and use up only 30 energy for KDKs that don't wanna bother splitting their weapon groups.


Even if LBX20s had an energy draw of 0, no one would be using them. Beyond 50m, they spread across the entire mech, and is more or less useless.

I once had a "sniping" battle with a dire on therma. He kept unloading shots of LBX20s into me. I was an ACH. I just stood still and fired my LPL into his CT over a minute or so. I don't even think I had any red armour by the end of it, but he was dead.

#17 Hit the Deck

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Posted 18 August 2016 - 07:56 PM

Make SRMs to have lower energy draw value(s) if needed.

#18 Dingo Battler

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Posted 18 August 2016 - 08:02 PM

View PostHit the Deck, on 18 August 2016 - 07:56 PM, said:

Make SRMs to have lower energy draw value(s) if needed.


This is a good suggestion. Along with lowering cooldown.

Just realised when the bads say they brawl with the easy-to-use PPFLD "brawling weapons" like PPC, AC20, gauss, all those weapons are just long ranged weapons bads cannot use in long range due to leading, so they brawl with it.

Brawling needs a massive leg up. I'm even thinking no energy draw for SRMs, small lasers, and any other weapon below 300m

#19 xe N on

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Posted 18 August 2016 - 08:05 PM

the base idea of this sytem is very good. Values need to be tweaked.

Heavier mechs can either now carry weapons for different purpose or use multiple fire groups.

This makes mixed loadouts viable, e.g. gauss + ppc for long range, SRMs for short range.

Lighter mechs still need to specialize.

In addition, the system limit the hardpoint inflation problem. Mechs like Shadowhawk and Victor may be viable again.

Thumbs up PGI.

Edited by xe N on, 18 August 2016 - 08:07 PM.


#20 Dingo Battler

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Posted 18 August 2016 - 08:08 PM

View Postxe N on, on 18 August 2016 - 08:05 PM, said:

the base idea of this sytem is very good. Values need to be tweaked.

Heavier mechs can either now carry weapons for different purpose or use multiple fire groups.

This makes mixed loadouts viable, e.g. gauss + ppc for long range, SRMs for short range.

Lighter mechs still need to specialize.

In addition, the system limit the hardpoint inflation problem. Mechs like Shadowhawk and Victor may be viable again.

Thumbs up PGI.


Except like the bads have been saying, they're been "brawling" with PPCs, gauss rifles and AC20s. There's no point to SRMs anymore.

I can understand why PGI nerfed them, they require a lot of estimation and lead, and it'll greatly displease the bads to leave them good.





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