101 replies to this topic

[Xetelian]

Just wanted to drop my 2cents

Assaults weren't the outlier in the too big of an alpha boat and 30 points isn't even close to enough for an AS7 or DWF

Lights 20-30
Mediums 25-35
Heavies 30-40
Assaults 40-50

4 SRM6s is 51 points of damage and short range and spread out and really hot already

AS7-S

This mech can't even alternate its fire between its two heavy hitting weapons

BOAR'S HEAD

This mech can't fire all its pulse lasers


These are 100 tonners, they should be the highest damage available

It feels like 30 damage is just too low for assaults and doesn't even effect most lights which is fine by itself but not great when you consider all the other weights

[Khobai]

Yep. Assaults need to do more damage than Lights. The energy cap should be based on weight class.

Light = 30
Medium = 35
Heavy = 40
Assault = 45

[Blue Boutique]

No, bringing the cap higher will give the stalker, warhawk and direwolf another PPC to invalidate your brawling builds. Make it work or change it to something better.

[kapusta11]

So that Battlemaster can fire 5 LPLs/ERLLs/LLs simultaneously? A true "one button" mech. Ironic, don't you think?

Edited by kapusta11, 19 August 2016 - 01:11 AM.

[Kaptain]

I disagree. The 30 point limit is fine. SRMs energy drain should be reduced from point five zero to point two zero. They are currently one of the only weapon systems that get a nerf while boating and it a big nerf.

If SRMs heat draw was reduced to point two five one could easily fire all the weapons an the atlas-S (4MPLs, 4SRM6s, ac20) a bit apart and only trigger a few points on the SRMs.

Something needs to be done about large energy weapon boats though. 6xPPCs alpha for 86 points less heat int his build than GH1.0. That makes 6x+ LL/LPS/PPC totally viable and that is ridiculous.

http://mwomercs.com/...boating-builds/

Edited by Kaptain, 19 August 2016 - 02:38 AM.

[Khobai]

And youre wrong. The 30 point limit isnt fine.

Because assaults should not have the same firepower as lights.

[pyrocomp]

Kaptain, on 19 August 2016 - 01:34 AM, said:

I disagree. The 30 point limit is fine. SRMs energy drain should be reduced from 1.0 to point five zero. They are currently one of the only weapon systems that get a nerf while boating and it a big nerf.

If SRMs heat draw was reduced by half I could easily fire all the weapons an the atlas-S (4MPLs, 4SRM6s, ac20) a bit apart and not trigger ghost heat 2.0.

Something needs to be done about large energy weapon boats though. 6xPPCs alpha for 86 points less heat int his build than GH1.0. That makes 6x+ LL/LPS/PPC totally viable and that is ridiculous.

http://mwomercs.com/...boating-builds/

SRM power draw is at 0.75 now.

[Kaptain]

pyrocomp, on 19 August 2016 - 02:17 AM, said:

SRM power draw is at 0.75 now.

Thank you! I missed that somehow. I will edit.

Khobai, on 19 August 2016 - 02:14 AM, said:

And youre wrong. The 30 point limit isnt fine.

Because assaults should not have the same firepower as lights.

Assaults have far more firepower than lights. In 1.5 sec I can release an AC20, 4MPLs and 4SRM6s and only incure a 3 point heat penalty. No light can carry that kind of firepower.

Edited by Kaptain, 19 August 2016 - 02:39 AM.

[Syanis]

The main benefit for assaults now is they can stack heatsinks to keep up the damage longer more then lighter mechs. That is a point but still it doesn't balance out well enough. As it stands now from playing on the PTS is that it seems an assault should carry two weapon sets one being for long range and another for short range brawling but that really just screws them over.

As such I have to go with what others said which is my same thoughts that depending on weight class and engine as well there should be a bigger energy pool.

Lights at 20-25, Mediums at 25-30, Heavies at 35-40, and Assaults at 40-45.
Max engine size -3 gets you the top end and anything less the bottom end of the range.

The other option I'd see is going into a different path:
20T = 15E
25-30T = 20E
35-40T = 25E
45-55T = 30E
60-75T = 35E
80-95T = 40E
100T = 45E

With the kind of massive changes they are doing and as they already don't really follow BT they could as well simply do as they are doing with Gauss to PPCs as well at capping them at 2 max per mech IF the whole energy thing is such a problem on their agenda.

[Sader325]

Tie Power to Engine.

[Khobai]

Quote

The main benefit for assaults now is they can stack heatsinks to keep up the damage longer more then lighter mechs.

Except thats been proven in the past not to be an advantage because of how people play.

People dont stand in the open and let you shoot them multiple times. They alphastrike once then retreat back into cover while their weapons are on cooldown. Its called minimizing exposure.

A light mech will pop out and do 30 damage then run back into cover. Its not going to stand around and wait for the assault mech to get a second volley of weapons off. So effectively the light and the assault have the same damage cap of 30... except the light has a huge advantage in speed and the assault well doesnt. gg assault.

For that reason, assaults should alphastrike harder than lights. period. It makes absolutely no sense to have lights and assaults alphastriking for the same amount.

Assaults are super slow, turn poorly, have huge hitboxes and not enough armor to make up for having such huge hitboxes. Firepower was their ONLY advantage. You cannot take that away from them.

Quote

Tie Power to Engine.

This idea is terrible. Youll have timberwolves with 375 engines that have more firepower than most assaults.

Yeah no thanks.


Energy cap should instead be tied to weight class.

Light = 30 energy
Medium = 35 energy
Heavy = 40 energy
Assault = 45 energy

That gives heavier weight classes more energy which is exactly how it should work.

Edited by Khobai, 19 August 2016 - 03:23 AM.

[FupDup]

Assaults are very powerful in the PTS using PPCs, Gauss, or Dakka.

They don't need any kind of buff, and if they got that kind of buff there would be nothing to stop them from taking over.

[Savage Wolf]

Khobai, on 19 August 2016 - 02:14 AM, said:

And youre wrong. The 30 point limit isnt fine.

Because assaults should not have the same firepower as lights.

It's not a firepower limit. It's an alpha limit. An assault will simply have the weapons to do the alpha more often meaning more damage per second.

[Wuxian]

Savage Wolf, on 19 August 2016 - 04:17 AM, said:

It's not a firepower limit. It's an alpha limit. An assault will simply have the weapons to do the alpha more often meaning more damage per second.

This says everything there needs to be said.

[Alistair Winter]

Firepower is more than having big alphastrikes. Assaults have the capacity to carry more big weapons, they can use builds that simply aren't an option for smaller mechs, like 2 Gauss, 2 PPCs, and they have enough heat sinks to maintain high DPS, while also having great range.

So no, assaults do not need a bigger cap. And no, the cap should not be tied to the engine size. And no, heavies and assaults do not need help to be protected from the viciously OP light mechs. I haven't seen any light mechs outperforming heavies or assaults so far, even though you can now do 7 or 8 laser alphastrikes on your ACH / Firestarter without ghost heat.

Stop trying to fix problems that aren't there, just because assault mechs are so powerful in the novels from the 80's.

[Savage Wolf]

People still forget that this in an online multiplayer game. Teams are not limited by C-bills in what they bring and you are not playing the commander, you are playing a pilot. If we want this game to be fun for everyone, Assault can't be more powerful than other weight classes. So if lights can compete with the other weight classes it's on point, because everyone needs a chance to contribute and this game is primarily about dealing damage.

[pyrocomp]

Alistair Winter, on 19 August 2016 - 04:22 AM, said:

Firepower is more than having big alphastrikes. Assaults have the capacity to carry more big weapons, they can use builds that simply aren't an option for smaller mechs, like 2 Gauss, 2 PPCs, and they have enough heat sinks to maintain high DPS, while also having great range.

So no, assaults do not need a bigger cap. And no, the cap should not be tied to the engine size. And no, heavies and assaults do not need help to be protected from the viciously OP light mechs. I haven't seen any light mechs outperforming heavies or assaults so far, even though you can now do 7 or 8 laser alphastrikes on your ACH / Firestarter without ghost heat.

Stop trying to fix problems that aren't there, just because assault mechs are so powerful in the novels from the 80's.

Well, while this is true then a heat cap might be tinkered with a little. To allow some balm on assault pilots' wounds left by those pesky lights. Or in terms that a single light should not be able to bring down and assault in 1 on 1 fight unless one of two conditions are met: 1) assault pilot is a potato, 2) light pilot is reaaly good. A pair of lights should be dangerous to any mech (and they are now). This should help stop stream of 'lights a OP' statements.

[Savage Wolf]

pyrocomp, on 19 August 2016 - 04:44 AM, said:

Well, while this is true then a heat cap might be tinkered with a little. To allow some balm on assault pilots' wounds left by those pesky lights. Or in terms that a single light should not be able to bring down and assault in 1 on 1 fight unless one of two conditions are met: 1) assault pilot is a potato, 2) light pilot is reaaly good. A pair of lights should be dangerous to any mech (and they are now). This should help stop stream of 'lights a OP' statements.

Why on earth do actively want the light class to be inferior to the assault class. Then why would we ever pick them? Makes no sense in an online game.

[Alistair Winter]

Savage Wolf, on 19 August 2016 - 04:56 AM, said:

Why on earth do actively want the light class to be inferior to the assault class. Then why would we ever pick them? Makes no sense in an online game.

This.

But the assaultbros will tell you that lights are just supposed to cap bases, harass enemy mechs (i.e. do 50 damage in a match) and scout the enemy team (i.e. watch the fight).

[pyrocomp]

Savage Wolf, on 19 August 2016 - 04:56 AM, said:

Why on earth do actively want the light class to be inferior to the assault class. Then why would we ever pick them? Makes no sense in an online game.

The reasons are in ther second and in the last sentences, but anyway. People expect the assaults to be really mean (all those guns on that wunderwaffle almost to gundam level). Thus they expect that the game is not scissors-rock-paper type but that assault is better that any other mech, but a pair of mechs can freely be stronger. Advantage in number somehow goes smoothly in humand minds. Not sure it is not taken from everyday experience, but looks so. So this gives us all those 'lights are OP' threads. And this scares people away from lights before they try it, but when they try.... So mostly the game need to create impression that assaults are mean and bad and no more than this.