91 replies to this topic

[BLOOD WOLF]

Gas Guzzler, on 19 August 2016 - 09:32 AM, said:

If the Victor had 3 full size missile hardpoints (6 tubes), it would be a killer fast brawler with AC20 and 3 SRM6 w/art. Add some structure quirks and in the live servers now, it would be incredibly fun and a great brawler.

Range and weapon mechanics need to be taken into account. Yeah SRMs shouldn't take as much energy as lasers, but lasers shouldn't take as much energy as PPFLD (PPC/Gauss/ACs) because they are DoT. Needs a lot of tweaks to get to a good point of balance, variety and fun. It would actually be easier and more direct to keep what we have now and keep tweaking balance.

Keep what we have now and tweak it? They have been doing that for years, with not much luck

[Lily from animove]

Gas Guzzler, on 19 August 2016 - 09:29 AM, said:

And we will have EVEN LESS variety.

So shortsighted it isn't even funny.

that won't lead to less variety, thats nonsense it will just lead to less alpha derp by larg boatig, you can theoretically still use all those 7 LPL, but will ahve to fire them in succession.

if the system comes as said it will estrablish a meta which has a laod less variety than currently existing so what you say is quite nonsense. ,

[Alienized]

BLOOD WOLF, on 19 August 2016 - 09:31 AM, said:

The only people not trusting such test are people like yourself.

you mean, people that been here for quite a while, noticing such fails? sorry, im not white-knightening full time like bishop did nor am i going full steam against PGI as so many old bitter players so.

but im not closing my eyes and wont leave the fails that happened forgotten. someone needs to reming PGI of what happened in the past, they been doing the same mistakes over and over for too long.

[draiocht]

[mod]This thread has been moved to Energy Draw Public Test.[/mod]

[Gas Guzzler]

Lily from animove, on 19 August 2016 - 09:33 AM, said:

that won't lead to less variety, thats nonsense it will just lead to less alpha derp by larg boatig, you can theoretically still use all those 7 LPL, but will ahve to fire them in succession.

if the system comes as said it will estrablish a meta which has a laod less variety than currently existing so what you say is quite nonsense. ,

Yes it will. PPC/Gauss and Dakka assaults are the only assaults worth bringing. That's called less variety.

There is much more variety on the live server than on the PTS, when it comes to what is viable. That is a fact.

[BLOOD WOLF]

Alienized, on 19 August 2016 - 09:34 AM, said:

you mean, people that been here for quite a while, noticing such fails? sorry, im not white-knightening full time like bishop did nor am i going full steam against PGI as so many old bitter players so.

but im not closing my eyes and wont leave the fails that happened forgotten. someone needs to reming PGI of what happened in the past, they been doing the same mistakes over and over for too long.

The new system isnt too bad. It has its shortcoming buts in in the early stages. I think they got something that can be worked with here.

[Gas Guzzler]

BLOOD WOLF, on 19 August 2016 - 09:33 AM, said:

Keep what we have now and tweak it? They have been doing that for years, with not much luck

Not much luck? Weapon balance is pretty good. Lasers, PPCs, Gauss, autocannons are all balanced with each other and kind of have a rock-paper-scissors thing going in some ways. SRMs are awesome in a brawl as the should be. ER LL is a good sniping weapon and has a different set of advantages and disadvantages vs ERPPCs and Gauss. All the main weapon systems are pretty balanced. LRMs need a rework, MGs, IS SLs, AC2s need some tweaking.. but the game is in a great state of weapon balance.

Mech balance needs constant tweaking and always will. You can't say that Energy Draw helped mech balance at all... if anything it definitely made it worse.

BLOOD WOLF, on 19 August 2016 - 09:38 AM, said:

The new system isnt too bad. It has its shortcoming buts in in the early stages. I think they got something that can be worked with here.

I think it could work, but it needs the variety issue addressed. Which will be hard to address without allowing certain weapon systems to get either burned or promoted to god-like.

[Alienized]

Gas Guzzler, on 19 August 2016 - 09:32 AM, said:

If the Victor had 3 full size missile hardpoints (6 tubes), it would be a killer fast brawler with AC20 and 3 SRM6 w/art. Add some structure quirks and in the live servers now, it would be incredibly fun and a great brawler.

Range and weapon mechanics need to be taken into account. Yeah SRMs shouldn't take as much energy as lasers, but lasers shouldn't take as much energy as PPFLD (PPC/Gauss/ACs) because they are DoT. Needs a lot of tweaks to get to a good point of balance, variety and fun. It would actually be easier and more direct to keep what we have now and keep tweaking balance.

most people bashed ghost heat because they couldnt fire all ze lasers at once.
it was and propably is the best system for balancing we could ask for. what pissed me off was that they set ghost heat on large lasers to 3 instead of letting it at 2. it caused so many problems ...
you could easily fix alot of the current meta problems with changing ghost heats to 2 for large lasers, 4 for med lasers and 6 for smalls but damn, the players outcry would be so massive that the aral-lake would be filled again to the level it once had....
and thats a damn lot of water.


but i never liked the full customization part anyway. its pure nonsense to mechs >_>

[Bilbo]

Gas Guzzler, on 19 August 2016 - 09:36 AM, said:

...
There is much more variety on the live server than on the PTS, when it comes to what is viable. That is a fact.

That is kind of expected. People are going to abuse the most broken parts of the system during test sessions.

[BLOOD WOLF]

Gas Guzzler, on 19 August 2016 - 09:39 AM, said:

Not much luck? Weapon balance is pretty good. Lasers, PPCs, Gauss, autocannons are all balanced with each other and kind of have a rock-paper-scissors thing going in some ways. SRMs are awesome in a brawl as the should be. ER LL is a good sniping weapon and has a different set of advantages and disadvantages vs ERPPCs and Gauss. All the main weapon systems are pretty balanced. LRMs need a rework, MGs, IS SLs, AC2s need some tweaking.. but the game is in a great state of weapon balance.

Mech balance needs constant tweaking and always will. You can't say that Energy Draw helped mech balance at all... if anything it definitely made it worse.

My lord man, if you thought balance was good, i don't know what game you were playing. The only balance that was good was my ability not to overheat.

[Gas Guzzler]

BLOOD WOLF, on 19 August 2016 - 09:40 AM, said:

My lord man, if you thought balance was good, i don't know what game you were playing. The only balance that was good was my ability not to overheat.

Maybe I just understand the game better than you? *shrugs* I suppose you are going to say "Laser Vomit so OP"?

Alienized, on 19 August 2016 - 09:40 AM, said:

most people bashed ghost heat because they couldnt fire all ze lasers at once.
it was and propably is the best system for balancing we could ask for. what pissed me off was that they set ghost heat on large lasers to 3 instead of letting it at 2. it caused so many problems ...
you could easily fix alot of the current meta problems with changing ghost heats to 2 for large lasers, 4 for med lasers and 6 for smalls but damn, the players outcry would be so massive that the aral-lake would be filled again to the level it once had....
and thats a damn lot of water.


but i never liked the full customization part anyway. its pure nonsense to mechs >_>

What are the meta problems though? You are aware that lasers have fallen by the wayside, and are at MOST balanced with PPFLD and AC boats right?

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 19 August 2016 - 09:42 AM.

[BLOOD WOLF]

Gas Guzzler, on 19 August 2016 - 09:42 AM, said:

Maybe I just understand the game better than you? *shrugs* I suppose you are going to say "Laser Vomit so OP"?

maybe you think you understand the game better than the people that have been saying the weapon balance was terrible.

[Y E O N N E]

Cross-tech still leaves much to be desired, but intra-tech is fairly decent.

[Andi Nagasia]

Gas Guzzler, on 19 August 2016 - 08:28 AM, said:

NOW do you believe me when I say stacking MLs on top of LPLs isn't actually a workaround, its just an adaptation to salvage more alpha power at closer range?

so they will double the Penalties and then you wont be able to alpha the same, simple,
no one expected this system to work perfectly fine the first rendition, this is still a test,

[Gas Guzzler]

BLOOD WOLF, on 19 August 2016 - 09:43 AM, said:

maybe you think you understand the game better than the people that have been saying the weapon balance was terrible.

As I said, PPCs, Gauss, most ACs, SRMs, lasers all have a place. That's pretty solid.

Andi Nagasia, on 19 August 2016 - 09:43 AM, said:

so they will double the Penalties and then you wont be able to alpha the same, simple,
no one expected this system to work perfectly fine the first rendition, this is still a test,

That's not a solution, that just reinforces what is already dominant on the PTS.

[Alienized]

BLOOD WOLF, on 19 August 2016 - 09:40 AM, said:

My lord man, if you thought balance was good, i don't know what game you were playing. The only balance that was good was my ability not to overheat.

the balance currently IS good. you just cant balance the players itself to each other. hell i can solo a mediocre player's quad UAC10 kodiak to hell with my victor easily if i play my cards right.
before quirkening i was soloing SCR's with a brawling dragon 1C ....
one player even said the dragon was OP, so much for balance if 2 players meet that are not even close on the same level.

[BLOOD WOLF]

Gas Guzzler, on 19 August 2016 - 09:44 AM, said:

As I said, PPCs, Gauss, most ACs, SRMs, lasers all have a place. That's pretty solid.

ok

[Alienized]

Gas Guzzler, on 19 August 2016 - 09:43 AM, said:

What are the meta problems though? You are aware that lasers have fallen by the wayside, and are at MOST balanced with PPFLD and AC boats right?

looking at the LPL/LLAS stalkers and battlemasters, not to say LPL banshee's all over the place.... for clans it might be true tho that PPFLD and AC boats are dominant on the meta side currently.
for the IS nope.
not at all.
naa.
IS doesnt have the mechs for it apart from the mauler maybe. but then, you got XL....

[FannyBoss]

El Bandito, on 19 August 2016 - 08:39 AM, said:

Fortunately, that part is very simple to fix. PGI needs to increase the heat penalty ratio per damage exceeding 30.

Agreed. Scale the heat penalty so it increases past 30 in a curve.

[Gas Guzzler]

Alienized, on 19 August 2016 - 09:47 AM, said:

looking at the LPL/LLAS stalkers and battlemasters, not to say LPL banshee's all over the place.... for clans it might be true tho that PPFLD and AC boats are dominant on the meta side currently.
for the IS nope.
not at all.
naa.
IS doesnt have the mechs for it apart from the mauler maybe. but then, you got XL....

Warhammer is probably one of the best heavies in the game, and not the laser vomit one.

Assaults, yeah the Mauler is too slow to compete with the Kodiak (although you don't XL a Mauler, you just get 5 AC5s and DWF speeds), that I agree with. But the laser vomit options aren't exactly meta either. It boils down to the Kodiak obsoleting everything. The LPL boats you describe are great public queue stompers for sure, but they aren't THAT good.