51 replies to this topic

[TheRulesLawyer]

VanillaG, on 12 December 2011 - 02:19 PM, said:

I like the idea of simulator matches. Every new pilot gets 10 free simulator matches but after that you have to pay for the simulator matches. Tie the cost of the match to 5-10% of what you would make on winning a real match based on whatever formula they use to payout winnings(xp, mech type, etc). This keeps people from living in the simulator matches tweaking tactics or load outs without ever playing in real matches.

How about the new pilots get unlimited sim matches until they earn a high enough score to "graduate" However they are only able to pilot the starting mechs. Once you graduate you get 1-2 a day and extra cost "real" money. You can run any mech, any loadout you like. Costing real money past the free one levels the sim field between new/casual and hard core players. In game currency tends to get trivial for high level/hardcore players in most systems.

[Tweaks]

TheRulesLawyer, on 12 December 2011 - 02:43 PM, said:

How about the new pilots get unlimited sim matches until they earn a high enough score to "graduate" However they are only able to pilot the starting mechs. Once you graduate you get 1-2 a day and extra cost "real" money. You can run any mech, any loadout you like. Costing real money past the free one levels the sim field between new/casual and hard core players. In game currency tends to get trivial for high level/hardcore players in most systems.

I like that. There could also be an option to try a new 'Mech before you buy it. One thing I've always hated about World of Tanks is that you can't try a tank before you get it, especially when it's a premium tank that cost you thousands of gold. If you don't like it, too bad, no refunds. If at least you could try it out in a simulator, then you could take an informed decision based on your personal preferences rather than to have to rely on others' experience and testimonials.

[Redburn]

Nope, it's got to be a free and open training area.

Using your example(s)' if I get a new joystick (or other controller thpe) a year from now and I've used my "training chits"' then I have to "pay" to setup and test out my new joystick, etc., control schemes.

Nope, I don't like that at all......

[KHETTI]

Was thinking about this a while back, it totally makes sense to have a training ground/firing range, no mechwarrior is going to go out into the field without knowing his/her mech and weapons.

[Tweaks]

Redburn, on 12 December 2011 - 03:42 PM, said:

Nope, it's got to be a free and open training area.

Using your example(s)' if I get a new joystick (or other controller thpe) a year from now and I've used my "training chits"' then I have to "pay" to setup and test out my new joystick, etc., control schemes.

Nope, I don't like that at all......

Who were you answering to? It's not clear who you're talking to since you don't mention his/her name. You'd better quote his original message.

[VanillaG]

TheRulesLawyer, on 12 December 2011 - 02:43 PM, said:

How about the new pilots get unlimited sim matches until they earn a high enough score to "graduate" However they are only able to pilot the starting mechs. Once you graduate you get 1-2 a day and extra cost "real" money.

Redburn, on 12 December 2011 - 03:42 PM, said:

... if I get a new joystick (or other controller thpe) a year from now and I've used my "training chits"' then I have to "pay" to setup and test out my new joystick, etc., control schemes.

I think a good compromise would be that you can get unlimited matches that only contain in a starters. This gives new pilots a place to try out the game without going broke and allows existing players to calibrate controls schemes and peripherals.

All other types of mechs cost c-bills to run in the simulator. Those matches would allow you test drive new mechs and try out new tactics.

[Holmes]

VanillaG, on 12 December 2011 - 02:19 PM, said:

I like the idea of simulator matches. Every new pilot gets 10 free simulator matches but after that you have to pay for the simulator matches. Tie the cost of the match to 5-10% of what you would make on winning a real match based on whatever formula they use to payout winnings(xp, mech type, etc). This keeps people from living in the simulator matches tweaking tactics or load outs without ever playing in real matches.

Paying for a practice mode? Get out.

[TheRulesLawyer]

Holmes, on 12 December 2011 - 08:06 PM, said:

Paying for a practice mode? Get out.

Its not so much paying for a practice mode as its paying to test out equipment before you have to buy it- either with in game money or real money.

If its limited to stuff you already own- unlimited practiced mode make sense.

[Cyber Carns]

Skwisgaar Skwigelf, on 12 December 2011 - 12:38 PM, said:

A training sim would be nice also as a part of character creation, after you make your pilot you go through a training or series of training excersizes introducing you to the controls and the concept of how the mech works. Then maybe they can have a "graduation exam" (put you in a certain mech and make you face off against a certain number of increasingly difficult enemies perhaps) and use the final grade to determine or modify your starting XP?

I have to agree with this. It would be a good idea to have after character creation, have your character go thru a kind of school, so you can learn the Mech controls and the nuances of how the game works.

[Ra-ul]

As I understand this game is basically Free To Play, so IMO it makes no sense to charge for simulator rounds. I think such a function is also vital to test joystick and keyboard setup before getting into battles around planets. It can also serve as a training platform for Merc and House units without risking planets because of some newb not knowing which button to press (I´m including me here ). So I think this function should be totally disconnected from the actual persistent game world. I don´t know if players should be able to host such matches, or include a training lobby on the official server, I´ll leave that up to the Devs to figure out the best possible way.

[Tweaks]

GraySho, on 13 December 2011 - 05:04 AM, said:

As I understand this game is basically Free To Play, so IMO it makes no sense to charge for simulator rounds. I think such a function is also vital to test joystick and keyboard setup before getting into battles around planets. It can also serve as a training platform for Merc and House units without risking planets because of some newb not knowing which button to press (I´m including me here ). So I think this function should be totally disconnected from the actual persistent game world. I don´t know if players should be able to host such matches, or include a training lobby on the official server, I´ll leave that up to the Devs to figure out the best possible way.

I agree. Training simulators should be free and unlimited, and should be available at any time. However, I'm not at all favorable to have combat done in simulators grant experience to a pilot, at least, not past a certain level.

For example, training simulators could be one way (or the way) to safely bring recruits or cadets to the brink of the MechWarrior rank (or first rank that can be earned, whatever it is). Actual live fire combat(s) would be required to earn the final experience points that grant you the full rank (and potentially unlock non-starter 'Mechs in the process). There could even be a special "tutorial" mode in the simulator (cadet training session, similar to MechWarrior II's), which newcomers would have to go through before they can join a live match with other players.

I think that would be a fair system. Afterwards, if a pilot wishes to go back in the simulator to try something out, or just test-drive a new 'Mech before he actually buys it, then he'd be free to do so, but that wouldn't grant him/her any experience.

Edited by Tweaks, 13 December 2011 - 05:15 AM.

[Skwisgaar Skwigelf]

"Tutorial", that's the word I was trying to think of.

[Nik Van Rhijn]

I think that having a tutorial is essential, not only for the vets who are here now, but for all those that come who have never heard of BT/MW.
Being able to practice with a new mech and or weapon set up is vital before entering PvP. There should also be an intro to the BT universe etc so that noobs have some idea of what they are getting into.

[VanillaG]

Tweaks, on 13 December 2011 - 05:12 AM, said:

I agree. Training simulators should be free and unlimited, and should be available at any time. However, I'm not at all favorable to have combat done in simulators grant experience to a pilot, at least, not past a certain level.

For example, training simulators could be one way (or the way) to safely bring recruits or cadets to the brink of the MechWarrior rank (or first rank that can be earned, whatever it is). Actual live fire combat(s) would be required to earn the final experience points that grant you the full rank (and potentially unlock non-starter 'Mechs in the process). There could even be a special "tutorial" mode in the simulator (cadet training session, similar to MechWarrior II's), which newcomers would have to go through before they can join a live match with other players.

I think that would be a fair system. Afterwards, if a pilot wishes to go back in the simulator to try something out, or just test-drive a new 'Mech before he actually buys it, then he'd be free to do so, but that wouldn't grant him/her any experience.

I guess it depends on what kind of limits they put on being able to pilot a mech. If you have to grind through various weight classes to use various mechs than this would work. However, if on day one you were able to pilot an Atlas if you had enough C-Bills to purchase one then you need to put some kind of restriction on the simulator. Why would anyone play outside of the simulator if the could just pilot any mech at any time for no cost?

Adding a cost, using C-Bills not real money, to non-starter mech simulator matches would mean that the player would have to play in PvP matches to make some C-Bills so they could use the simulator. New players could play all day, every day for free as long as they use the starter mechs which should give them proper training on control layouts. Existing player could use the same starter mechs to test out changes to joysticks/control mappings at no charge with starter mechs. At a cost of 5% of winnings for a match a pilot could play 20 simulator matches with non-starter mechs for each PvP match they must play if they truly wanted to practice with their mech. Most Merc Corps should be able to do some level of simulator/training without breaking the bank.

There needs to be some kind of downside to keep people from living in the simulator since MWO is designed to be a PvP oriented game. The simulator gives the pilot a no risk environment to try out new things at the cost of C-Bills which prevents them from getting better mechs/equipment as fast as the guy who does not use the simulator and learns through PvP matches.

Edited by VanillaG, 13 December 2011 - 09:18 AM.

[TheRulesLawyer]

VanillaG, on 13 December 2011 - 09:18 AM, said:

There needs to be some kind of downside to keep people from living in the simulator since MWO is designed to be a PvP oriented game. The simulator gives the pilot a no risk environment to try out new things at the cost of C-Bills which prevents them from getting better mechs/equipment as fast as the guy who does not use the simulator and learns through PvP matches.

Exactly. I'm mainly concerned about people just playing whatever mech they want in the sim instead of playing the real game if there are no limitations. There are a couple ways to do that.

1) Limit the sim to the mechs you own.
2) Limit the sim to the mechs you own + a few rotating free to use ones (aka LoL style)
3) Unlimited mechs, but limited use per day.

I'd think the devs would want 2 or 3 simply because you're more likely to buy a new mech if you get to try it first.

[Havoc2]

IIRC the devs have already stated that there will be no PvE "missions" so a training simulator would either be:

1) Open map with buildings/targets that you could fire weapons at
2) Lobby similar to the live game but without XP/Salvage/Loss of 'Mech/whatever else is included in the game.
3) Something no one else has thought of

In any case, I doubt that many people would be living in the training area.
How exciting could the game possibly be either running around an open map or fighting with nothing to show for it?

[TheRulesLawyer]

}{avoc, on 13 December 2011 - 10:16 AM, said:

How exciting could the game possibly be either running around an open map or fighting with nothing to show for it?

People played games for a long time before leveling and unlocks became common.

[VanillaG]

}{avoc, on 13 December 2011 - 10:16 AM, said:

IIRC the devs have already stated that there will be no PvE "missions" so a training simulator would either be:

1) Open map with buildings/targets that you could fire weapons at
2) Lobby similar to the live game but without XP/Salvage/Loss of 'Mech/whatever else is included in the game.
3) Something no one else has thought of

In any case, I doubt that many people would be living in the training area.
How exciting could the game possibly be either running around an open map or fighting with nothing to show for it?

Based on the lastest news flash http://mwomercs.com/...-isn-news-flash it is looking like option 2. Having a training ground where new players can bang on each other without worrying about losing their new shiny mech gives them the "real life" skills of how to pilot the mech. Latter, Merc Corps/House Units have the abilily to conduct wargames to try out new tactics in a simulator but at a small cost. Without some kind of downside, people would most likely live in the simulator because they would be afraid to lose their stuff.

Edited by VanillaG, 13 December 2011 - 11:06 AM.

[AcesHigh]

*coughcoughsolariscough*

[Havoc2]

TheRulesLawyer, on 13 December 2011 - 10:51 AM, said:

People played games for a long time before leveling and unlocks became common.

I'm not talking about no levels/unlocks to show for play time (hell, the instant action MultiPlayer is what I miss most about MW), I'm talking about hanging out by yourself shooting at billboards or however the training matches are set up.
Even fighting against others would get boring if all you're doing is beating up on "noobs" who can't figure out how to turn their torso let alone fire back.

I guess there are always those who would just hang around in the "nothing matters zone" but really, how many people would hang out there when the rest of the world is fighting, competing, and it's free?