81 replies to this topic

[Monkey Lover]

Gas Guzzler, on 24 August 2016 - 10:37 AM, said:

The damage is only pinpoint at range if you fire the ER PPC and Gauss separately, which you know have to wait a whole second in between shots to do.

That again is the point of the system. Hopefully every so often you will hit two different areas. They're still both pin point. A 60dmg laser alpha would spread over the whole mech unless they're nice enough not to twist.

You can still peak and poke all you want.

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 24 August 2016 - 10:48 AM, said:

You know what else does, but actually has low heat and high DPS? AC5s.
2 cERPPC/Gauss = 35 damage and 51 heat
2 PPC/Gauss = 35 damage and 34 heat
5 AC5 = 25 damage and 7.5 heat
2 Gauss = 30 damage and 12 heat
3 PPC = 30 damage and 36 heat

Notice a problem? I do, no will ever use PPC/Gauss, they will just run AC5 boats and if they can't do that, just run Gauss boats. PPCs will be back to the trash bin, which is sad because they just started to come back into the meta.

5 ac5 is 35tons or weapons compared to 29 tons of gauss+ppc where 2/3 of the weapons dont require ammo. It should be a little better.
But over all Nerf ac5's the put more heat on them. Stop trying to Buff everything,

Edited by Monkey Lover, 24 August 2016 - 10:58 AM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Monkey Lover, on 24 August 2016 - 10:56 AM, said:

5 ac5 is 35tons or weapons compared to 29 tons of gauss+ppc where 2/3 of the weapons dont require ammo. It should be a little better.
But over all Nerf ac5's the put more heat on them. Stop trying to Buff everything,

Not requiring ammo isn't a big deal when you require 20 tons of DHS to have remotely decent DPS.
2 AC5/2 UAC5 on the Warhammer will be the new heavy build to beat. Adding heat to AC5s won't really put much of a dent in them unless you are talking about absurd amounts of heat, and then it will probably switch to mixing AC5/AC2s to avoid huge penalties or just spamming dual AC10s.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 24 August 2016 - 11:01 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Monkey Lover, on 24 August 2016 - 10:56 AM, said:

That again is the point of the system. Hopefully every so often you will hit two different areas. They're still both pin point. A 60dmg laser alpha would spread over the whole mech unless they're nice enough not to twist.

Wait wait wait.
I'm sorry I thought lasers were trivially easy to aim, and always resulted in MASSIVE pinpoint alphas that can kill a mech in two shots. That's what the forums have been saying lately.

As long as the target is moving at long range, an ER PPC Gauss alpha will not hit the same component

[Monkey Lover]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 24 August 2016 - 11:00 AM, said:

Not requiring ammo isn't a big deal when you require 20 tons of DHS to have remotely decent DPS.
2 AC5/2 UAC5 on the Warhammer will be the new heavy build to beat. Adding heat to AC5s won't really put much of a dent in them unless you are talking about absurd amounts of heat, and then it will probably switch to mixing AC5/AC2s to avoid huge penalties or just spamming dual AC10s.

Not if it balanced and with any hope people will stop playing alpha warroir with gauss ppc and fire one after another.
Side note

2 cERPPC/Gauss is 40-45 dmg

[Gas Guzzler]

Monkey Lover, on 24 August 2016 - 11:07 AM, said:

2 cERPPC/Gauss is 40-45 dmg

Its 35 damage.

The spread damage doesn't matter.

[Monkey Lover]

Gas Guzzler, on 24 August 2016 - 11:04 AM, said:

Wait wait wait.
I'm sorry I thought lasers were trivially easy to aim, and always resulted in MASSIVE pinpoint alphas that can kill a mech in two shots. That's what the forums have been saying lately.

As long as the target is moving at long range, an ER PPC Gauss alpha will not hit the same component

I find it funny you're playing like you use gauss+ppc for the fun of it.The only reason people used this setup was to make a larger alpha. The goal of the system is to remove these high alphas. What did you think was going to happen?

Gas Guzzler, on 24 August 2016 - 11:07 AM, said:

Its 35 damage.

The spread damage doesn't matter.

Ok im done after this. If you dont think spread damage matters then dont use the weapon. Personally i have killed a lot of mechs with spread damage.Most of those being lights with xl engines. Even my little worthless peak and poke video showed the spread damage going to the back when i was taking out the side.

[Gas Guzzler]

Monkey Lover, on 24 August 2016 - 11:21 AM, said:

I find it funny you're playing like you use gauss+ppc for the fun of it.The only reason people used this setup was to make a larger alpha. The goal of the system is to remove these high alphas. What did you think was going to happen?

35 damage isn't a high alpha though. And really I just wanted to point out have the community opinion flip flops about how hard PPFLD vs lasers to use are and what is actually "pin point" damage.

I actually did use it for the fun of it even when it wasn't cool, but yeah it is capable of a good focused alpha strike at close to moderate range, but beyond that if a target is moving a reasonable speed you have to split it up if you want the focused damage. I'm just saying, all this does is mean there is a different way to do essentially the same thing like others pointed out.

[gloowa]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 24 August 2016 - 11:00 AM, said:

Not requiring ammo isn't a big deal when you require 20 tons of DHS to have remotely decent DPS.

Soooooo... you want "changes" that will allow you to run 2 weapons with huge range, huge damage, pinpoint alpha without heat penalty and have high DPS on top of it? Anything else? Perhaps a LEJ15 launcher (LeservomitEbonJag)? Maybe a "kill enemy" button for the cockpit?

Dude, just look at what you just wrote - you want range, damage, pinpoint and DPS. All the benefits, none the downsides. Why? Why would you think that was in any way good idea?

[Johnny Z]

I'm deliberately trying to use ERPPC's this update and I am finding them a bit hot. I don't use them hardly ever so not sure what to think.

Edited by Johnny Z, 24 August 2016 - 12:35 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

gloowa, on 24 August 2016 - 12:31 PM, said:

Soooooo... you want "changes" that will allow you to run 2 weapons with huge range, huge damage, pinpoint alpha without heat penalty and have high DPS on top of it?

Since when does 2 ERPPC/Gauss have high DPS?
A dakkahammer in live has a sustained DPS of 8.55 not counting double taps.
An ERPPC/Gauss Timby has a DPS of 3.84 in live.

You wanna keep talking out of your a**? By all means, go ahead, but I will call your BS every time.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 24 August 2016 - 12:37 PM.

[gloowa]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 24 August 2016 - 12:36 PM, said:

Since when does 2 ERPPC/Gauss have high DPS?

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 24 August 2016 - 11:00 AM, said:

Not requiring ammo isn't a big deal when you require 20 tons of DHS to have remotely decent DPS.

Since you called it decent dps.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

PGI seems desperate to force people to run and facetank with this update.

Repeat after me, all playstyles should be viable..even the ones you don't like.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

gloowa, on 24 August 2016 - 12:39 PM, said:

Since you called it decent dps.

Decent, as in, same as it does currently in live, because I actually realize that burst oriented builds should not have the same super high DPS of a dakka build. I'm sorry I used too subjective of a word for you

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 24 August 2016 - 12:41 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

Mystere, on 23 August 2016 - 09:01 PM, said:

I meant the less peeking and poking happening the better.

Well given all the map redesigns, that seem to focus on longer range engagements... That's all it's about.

[gloowa]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 24 August 2016 - 12:41 PM, said:

Decent, as in, same as it does currently in live, because I actually realize that burst oriented builds should not have the same super high DPS of a dakka build. I'm sorry I used too subjective of a word for you

I still don't see the problem. Yes, the sniper builds will get slightly weaker, (so it's just 2xPPC or 2xGauss instead of both at the same time) while what this really hits is brawlers - my Orion IIC build can dish out 200 damage in 5 seconds and not overheat currently, while it does insta-shutdown on PTS, after first volley. Snipers get 10 damage less, per full weapon volley. Brawlers get 40+ damage less. Where is the issue. Boring pop-snipe gameplay will still dominate the fields.

[L3mming2]

Gas Guzzler, on 23 August 2016 - 07:44 PM, said:

The energy draw value of weapons is too high, given the severity of the penalty, I suggest toning it down a bit. I get trying to limit alphas, but this is a little too weak for MechWarrior.

i have some problems with this 2nd version as well, now it douse not only limit alphas, it restricts dps.. some balistic dps builds can put out way more dps then there is regen... thats just stupid in my opinion... i liked the PTS1 way more.. the new penaltys are moving back to be like hard caps such as GH,
IMO a high alpha is ok, as long as its not repetable, a build like 2 ac20 is fine, but now its again a +50% for 1 shot build...

Edited by L3mming2, 25 August 2016 - 05:18 AM.

[Parashurama]

If I wanted to go play Hello Kitty Online, I would.


I play mechwarrior to be in a big, stompy robot and actually shoot the weapons, not watch multiple gauges that all limit fun.


Seems like Activision and Microsoft were able to make one heat gauge work.

[gloowa]

Parashurama, on 25 August 2016 - 08:46 AM, said:

Seems like Activision and Microsoft were able to make one heat gauge work.

Yeah, sure. And on top they TOTALLY didn;t make up contrived and arbitrary rules, like, say, for example: a part of a mech can never be destroyed from 100% to destroyed with one shot, no matter how many weapons are fired at it. Yeah. That totally didn't happen.

Edited by gloowa, 26 August 2016 - 12:17 PM.

[JigglyMoobs]

gloowa, on 26 August 2016 - 12:16 PM, said:

Yeah, sure. And on top they TOTALLY didn;t make up contrived and arbitrary rules, like, say, for example: a part of a mech can never be destroyed from 100% to destroyed with one shot, no matter how many weapons are fired at it. Yeah. That totally didn't happen.

A mech should go from 100 to 0 if enough weapons are fired at it, period.

Did you think this is pillow warrior online?

[Deathlike]

Parashurama, on 25 August 2016 - 08:46 AM, said:

If I wanted to go play Hello Kitty Online, I would.


I play mechwarrior to be in a big, stompy robot and actually shoot the weapons, not watch multiple gauges that all limit fun.


Seems like Activision and Microsoft were able to make one heat gauge work.

For the record, MW2, MW3, and MW4 had their own separate and different issues with how their heatscale works. MW4's is all "hidden" AND every mech had different heat capacity and dissipation (IIRC). It was literally tweaked hardcore (way more than MWO and its Dartboard Jesus quick system).

In every iteration of a MW game, weapons were ALWAYS boated for efficiency. This won't change ever.

Edited by Deathlike, 26 August 2016 - 12:36 PM.