71 replies to this topic

[Tiantara]

- What if we starting to think that new system just first step to longer mission, buildings for protection and possibility to play as lances, not "death ball of steel"? What if ED system is something to force player make mixed build for any range in all possible situation? Where you cant rely only on ballistic and rocket, and only on laser? In that case ED seems pretty logical...
Maybe its a bit naive, but... well...
I'll go to Live server to check some discoveries on PTS...

[Spleenslitta]

Nightmare1, on 27 August 2016 - 07:24 AM, said:

But Russ doesn't want that. He wants e-sports. He wants the min/max builds because that facilitates his e-sports goal. PGI is inept enough, and Russ is egotistical enough, to disregard real player feedback and instead implement an entirely new system that further rewards the energy vomit meta while punishing everything else.

That gamemode you suggested sounded real good. I would have tried that.

As for E-sports. It says a lot about Russ intellect that he doesn't recognise that one click builds takes less skill to master than mixed builds.
That's what E-sports is all about. Skill.
Current MWO is like watching a boxing match where each boxer has only 1 arm and only 1 or maybe 2 different punches each.
Not exactly the ideal recipe for E-sports.

If Russ believes this will establish MWO as an E-sport game he is the gaming worlds answer to Uwe Boll.

[Tiantara]

Nightmare1, on 27 August 2016 - 07:27 AM, said:

Because getting 8v8 onto the test server is nearly impossible. Too many people are too disenchanted with PGI to think that their input will actually be valued and used. Besides, with back-to-back events and Leaderboards, most players would rather grind for the events than give up their free time to test something for which they will receive zero rewards.

In the end, it goes like this:

Some players, such as myself, will run the PTS to see what is coming and to prepare for it. Some will try to provide feedback, knowing that it is a futile gesture but making the effort nonetheless because that effort needs to be made. Others will just choose not to waste their time.

Finally, it's pretty clear from the vids that the laser vomit hasn't changed much at all, so you don't really need to run large groups to see what that entails. The vids, though lacking in 8v8 and 12v12, make it pretty clear that laser vomit is going to be the wave of the future.

- Yeah... maybe you right. But, I'll still gonna try PTS. Maybe some of my thoughts and idea could help to balance all that and make it not only good but fun also. Something where all mech become useful even with not great hardpoints.

[nehebkau]

Was testing GAUSS + ERPPC builds and the changes have really mitigated those builds but not made them impossible. You can do a Gauss + 2ERPPC and alpha, once, and then you are stuck using the gauss until you cool back down. I think you hit it there.

Now, ONE PROBLEM....

AC2s. I was testing with a crab with 6 AC2s and, well, the DPS, projectile speed and lack of ghost heat means you can shred an atlas CT in a couple of seconds. Can anyone else try some AC2 builds and see what you think? I just envision a return of the JMGs AC2 menace.

Edited by nehebkau, 27 August 2016 - 07:42 AM.

[Navid A1]

Spleenslitta, on 27 August 2016 - 07:38 AM, said:

That gamemode you suggested sounded real good. I would have tried that.

As for E-sports. It says a lot about Russ intellect that he doesn't recognise that one click builds takes less skill to master than mixed builds.
That's what E-sports is all about. Skill.
Current MWO is like watching a boxing match where each boxer has only 1 arm and only 1 or maybe 2 different punches each.
Not exactly the ideal recipe for E-sports.

If Russ believes this will establish MWO as an E-sport game he is the gaming worlds answer to Uwe Boll.

If by E-sports Russ means the current disaster tournament.. then no thanks
The current MWO championship is torture... it is pure torture... its just be there all time, any time. And mechs are: 2Kodiaks-2HBK-IIC - 2JR7-IIC - TBR/GHR... with 1 or two builds... and the important matches between skilled teams are behind closed doors.
yeah... esports.

[Tiantara]

nehebkau, on 27 August 2016 - 07:42 AM, said:

Can anyone else try some AC2 builds and see what you think?

- HI!
- Yeap. I try that build on some mech who can wield 6xAC2. Not something cool. Maybe 1 vs 1 is good, but not in battle with more than 1 enemy. Also it's good for non-moving target. In close combat that become even more useless.

Edited by Tiantara, 27 August 2016 - 07:47 AM.

[Spleenslitta]

AC2. Can a single AC2 be concidered to be just as much worth the 6+1 tonns it weighs compared to a single ER PPC or std PPC's 7 tonns?
If the AC2 still inferior Paul has failed yet again. I'm not surprised.

[davoodoo]

Spleenslitta, on 27 August 2016 - 07:51 AM, said:

AC2. Can a single AC2 be concidered to be just as much worth the 6+1 tonns it weighs compared to a single ER PPC or std PPC's 7 tonns?
If the AC2 still inferior Paul has failed yet again. I'm not surprised.

ac2 again will be inferior by design as its need more facetime to be effective despite superior dps to ppc

its all about alphas no matter how much ppl will tell they are bad for the game.

Edited by davoodoo, 27 August 2016 - 08:03 AM.

[Nightmare1]

Tiantara, on 27 August 2016 - 07:39 AM, said:

- Yeah... maybe you right. But, I'll still gonna try PTS. Maybe some of my thoughts and idea could help to balance all that and make it not only good but fun also. Something where all mech become useful even with not great hardpoints.

Certainly, and by all means! Please do not think that I am trying to dissuade anyone from trying out the PTS; the more the merrier! I'm just trying to point out the flaws with its current build, PGI's hypocrisy, and what really needs to be fixed in order for ED to be successful.

Spleenslitta, on 27 August 2016 - 07:51 AM, said:

AC2. Can a single AC2 be concidered to be just as much worth the 6+1 tonns it weighs compared to a single ER PPC or std PPC's 7 tonns?
If the AC2 still inferior Paul has failed yet again. I'm not surprised.

This is the problem that has plagued ballistics for a long time now. Massive weight, low ammo, and relatively slow projectile speeds counterbalance the pinpoint (relative for Clans), front-loaded damage and low heat. AC/2s have not been viable for a long time because of the high weight to damage ratio. AC/5s are now joining them, since the only thing that really made them useful, their high DPS, has been nerfed through the floor. AC/20s, a marginalized weapon that only a handful of Mechs could feasibly equip, and a weapon that only true brawlers would use, has had its energy draw increased up from 20 to 24.

...And this while PGI publicly recognizes that the AC/20 is in trouble and dire need of help to be useful again!

In the end, the AC/10, a weapon not often used in the live, public build due to the fact that the AC/5 and AC/20 did a better job of min/maxing, may actually make a comeback and become the ballistic of choice. The irony is, its not because it's become a better weapon, inasmuch as all the other weapons have been nerfed until they are much poorer.

davoodoo, on 27 August 2016 - 08:02 AM, said:

its all about alphas no matter how much ppl will tell they are bad for the game.

That's the name of the game, and there's nothing that can fix that except to give pilots a reason to run different, mixed builds. As long as the game exists in its current state, then alpha striking will remain the tactic of choice regardless of the heat scale, energy draw, or in-game Mechs. There will always be ways around PGI's befuddled attempts to "balance" the meta since PGI only has a handful of designers to craft such ill-advised "fixes," while MWO has thousands of players to exploit the loopholes.

ED would have been better if PGI had done the following with it:

1) ED only applied to energy weapons and Gauss

2) Global cooldown nerf of 30% for all weapons

3) No extra cooldown nerfs on top of the global one (looking at ballistics)

4) AC/2 weight decreased by 1 ton

5) UAC jam chance globally increased by 5%

6) ED scales with engine size with 20 being the lowest and 40 being the highest to help balance Mechs that can only use energy weapons since they tend to have bigger engines than ones that don't

7) Ballistic heat decreased globally by one-half point.

8) Heat added to your scale was equal to a half point for each ED point over the limit.

9) ED values for energy weapons were equal to their damage value + 2. This means that the 9 ML HBK-4P would have an energy draw of 63 for its alpha strike. With a standard 275 engine, it would have an ED cap of 32.5, rounding to the nearest half-point. That means it would have an additional 15 heat, on top of the 36 points of heat generated by the 9 MLs. It could still fire 6 MLs for 30 points of damage with only 5 extra heat.

To put that in perspective, the current PTS build would accrue an extra 15 heat if all 9 MLs are fired. That's because the MLs have a 5 energy draw each, and the ED limit is 30. Hence, 45 - 30 = 15. It's the same amount of extra heat, but it is more dynamic since it can scale with the engine. It doesn't buff energy weapons so much as it buffs engines and allows pilots to use more high-risk builds. It also rewards IS XL engine users.

If the 6 MLs were fired together, then, in the current PTS build, that 4P would not accrue any extra heat. That doesn't really do anything to balance the game though, since most pilots would fire that shoulder first, and then trigger the other three MLs a moment later. In short, for no change in gameplay, the energy weapons are getting buffed. However, if PGI used different values, there would be a slight heat increase which would help balance the MLs against something like SRMs or ballistics on other brawlers.

Anyways, I'm just spitballing here. The idea though is to tone laser vomit down without nerfing it so that it's not functional. It's also to give ballistics a slight buff so that pilots have a reason to run something other than UACs.

[JaegerDjinn]

At present on the PTS the ultras are dead. At this time in game with settings right and working the buttons at right moment I fire 1 shot per gun and from there on till either the gun jams or I stop firing I can get a double but mostly triple slug consecutively. hit the buttons too fast they jam, too slow back to one slug. In test they can not and will not fire at proper rate. Which makes them no more then an ac5 with jam chance. I also know you can still stagger at a faster rate still with jam chance. That works for 2 guns but 3-4 of them is impossible without useing macros and that was on T1 and T2 servers. This means Jager dd and enforcer 5p with ultra5 quirks are useless