20 replies to this topic

[SnafuSnafu]

This maybe an issue,

48 points of damage sustainable at these kinds of ranges

Perhaps there's a way to curve these kinds of builds.

Higher ED, higher heat or perhaps just re-nerf C-ER large.

Pure Alpha Test on a similar build on the Warhawk:


It's also a 50 point Alpha that can be fired 2-3 times with one coolshot, 4 if you bring two coolshots.

Edited by SnafuSnafu, 27 August 2016 - 02:31 PM.

[Tiantara]

- But in real battle that build kinda risky... Gauss more fragile now and all weapon in one side of mech - not a best choice... But i like it. Not bad. Really nice ED test!

[davoodoo]

You do realise that i pack more firepower on my 50 ton hunchback and you complain about 85 tonner being able to pack enough dhs to actually sustain that very low dmg output??

Tiantara, on 27 August 2016 - 06:45 AM, said:

- But in real battle that build kinda risky... Gauss more fragile now and all weapon in one side of mech - not a best choice... But i like it. Not bad. Really nice ED test!

Also miss-information attacks again...

gauss right arm, lasers left torso.

If gauss explodes worst that will happen is that you lost gauss...

Edited by davoodoo, 27 August 2016 - 06:50 AM.

[Tiantara]

davoodoo, on 27 August 2016 - 06:48 AM, said:

Also miss-information attacks again...

gauss right arm, lasers left torso.

If gauss explodes worst that will happen is that you lost gauss...

- What? If you loose your gauss (and it happens after 3-4 hit into the arm) you loose gauss. So you stay only with 3 ERLL. All of them in one torso. So - when torso go down... you have nothing anyway. Where there miss-information? I tested gauss in real duels and battle zone. That nitroglycerine-gun explodes even after pilot sneeze. Got overheat? Boom! Got lucky LRM hit? Boom. And so on. After 3-5 hits on your mech you nearly have no gauss. Only lasers. And they all in one torso which easy to lose anyway. Because all will focuse that part of mech, as they all do it with timbers.

Edited by Tiantara, 27 August 2016 - 06:55 AM.

[davoodoo]

Tiantara, on 27 August 2016 - 06:54 AM, said:

- What? If you loose your gauss (and it happens after 3-4 hit into the arm) you loose gauss. So you stay only with 3 ERLL. All of them in one torso. So - when torso go down... you have nothing anyway. Where there miss-information? I tested gauss in real duels and battle zone. That nitroglycerine-gun explodes even after pilot sneeze. Got overheat? Boom! Got lucky LRM hit? Boom. And so on. After 3-5 hits on your mech you nearly have no gauss. Only lasers.

1)not all weapons in the same side.
3erll on left, gauss on right...
2)whether gauss explodes on left side or right side it wont make any difference...
3)if i lose both right arm and left torso on the mech them im out of weaponry on pretty large number of mechs... so thats good argument...

Edited by davoodoo, 27 August 2016 - 07:03 AM.

[Monkey Lover]

Change clans to 3 slot dhs like IS and make the heat rates the same.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 27 August 2016 - 07:08 AM.

[Tiantara]

davoodoo, on 27 August 2016 - 07:00 AM, said:

1)not all weapons in the same side.
3erll on left, gauss on right...
2)whether gauss explodes on left side or right side it wont make any difference...
3)if i lose both right arm and left torso on the mech them im out of weaponry of pretty large number of mechs...

- I wrote

Quote

Gauss more fragile now and all weapon in one side of mech - not a best choice...

So - now in real battle gauss easier to loose than before. So - only ERLL stay intact. But having all other weapon in one mech spot also not a best idea, because it easy to loose after focused fire. What use of mech in that end?

1. I know.
2. Gauss wrecks after 2-4 lucky hits. Now we see unlimited power against dummy mech. I want see that at least in Academy War Zone! In testing grounds all mech superior... but in duel - your gauss hardly spew even 6 shots before dies.
3. Yeap. That' why I prefer symmetric builds or at least with nice agility to shielding. To not end without any weapon. You can call me "zombie pilot", one of those who try battle even all of mech nearly dead.

[SnafuSnafu]

davoodoo, on 27 August 2016 - 06:48 AM, said:

You do realise that i pack more firepower on my 50 ton hunchback and you complain about 85 tonner being able to pack enough dhs to actually sustain that very low dmg output?

Not really an argument, 50 points of pinpoint in GH is the gold standard on any mech, sustainable 50 points of pinpoint is fairly nuts.

What enables this build is the viability of the un-nerfed C-ER-LL, which is pretty damn good right now.

The whole reason for ED is to curve such massive pinpoints, which GH has failed to do.

Edited by SnafuSnafu, 27 August 2016 - 07:18 AM.

[davoodoo]

SnafuSnafu, on 27 August 2016 - 07:15 AM, said:

Not really an argument, 50 points of pinpoint in GH is the gold standard on any mech, sustainable 50 points of pinpoint is fairly nuts.

Note that I am still able to do 3-4 straight out Alphas with this build, 3-1 split fire is sustainable for about a minute of firing and fast tapping the LL then Gauss is fully sustainable under almost all circumstances.

What enables this build is the viability of the un-nerfed C-ER-LL, which is pretty damn good right now.

The whole reason for ED is to curve such massive pinpoints, which GH has failed to do.

Yea it is argument, you packed medium firepower on an assault mech and you still cycle it...

I pack 4 lpl and fire them 2 by 2 on my warhawk without much of a heat problem in sight and you got here what?? 70% of my dps at higher burn time?? it better be sustainable...

This build is balance problem, shows how little use is there for erll and gauss...

Edited by davoodoo, 27 August 2016 - 07:24 AM.

[SnafuSnafu]

davoodoo, on 27 August 2016 - 07:23 AM, said:

Yea it is argument, you packed medium firepower on an assault mech and you still cycle it...

I pack 4 lpl and fire them 2 by 2 on my warhawk without much of a heat problem in sight and you got here what?? 70% of my dps at higher burn time?? it better be sustainable...

It's actually roughly a simillar DPS in an allotted time, however in a 20-30 seconds bout the Warhawk looses massively as it should, there's nothing special or wrong with the 4 LP Warhawk, one can only alpha it once, and do a one last 2 by 2 of 26 points before retreating to cool off, that is working as intended.

My issue with certain builds like the one I've shown is that one can pretty much sustain the DPS almost indefinitely, whilst being able to alpha 50 points 2-3 times, use another coolshot then sustain forever using the shown method.

Edited by SnafuSnafu, 27 August 2016 - 08:21 AM.

[Malcolm Vordermark]

Yeah, ED doesn't really do much to total damage output, it just breaks up damage. Energy also recharges during laser burn so you're effectively following the rules waiting to fire gauss at the end of the ERLL burn.

[SnafuSnafu]

Rouken Vordermark, on 27 August 2016 - 08:39 AM, said:

Yeah, ED doesn't really do much to total damage output, it just breaks up damage. Energy also recharges during laser burn so you're effectively following the rules waiting to fire gauss at the end of the ERLL burn.

I should have captured it in the video, but I am still able to Alpha all weapons two times + coolshot and do a 3rd alpha. If I do another coolshot then I can go with 3+1 (all lasers then gauss) fire for about another 20-30 seconds or go tap the ER large at a quick interval then gauss for unlimited sustain.

[Malcolm Vordermark]

SnafuSnafu, on 27 August 2016 - 08:45 AM, said:

I should have captured it in the video, but I am still able to Alpha all weapons two times + coolshot and do a 3rd alpha. If I do another coolshot then I can go with 3+1 (all lasers then gauss) fire for about another 20-30 seconds or go tap the ER large at a quick interval then gauss for unlimited sustain.

I believe you, I just don't think its a problem. Not being able to get a 3rd alpha without coolshot is pretty impressive considering that mech has a heat cap of 83, and the sustaining fire with that build is basically the same as pretty much every other mech firing two groups.

[Mystere]

Monkey Lover, on 27 August 2016 - 07:07 AM, said:

Change clans to 3 slot dhs like IS and make the heat rates the same.

[Monkey Lover]

Mystere, on 27 August 2016 - 09:12 AM, said:

Ya I know clanners will start setting fire to themselves outside Pgi office

[Sable]

I don't really get the point of this thread. The long cooldown on the gauss meant that even if alpha'ed together first all the following damage is spread out and not being alpha'ed together anymore. I guess it was to show unlimited energy? but your energy comes back anyway. It's supposed to.

[SnafuSnafu]

Sable, on 27 August 2016 - 02:09 PM, said:

I don't really get the point of this thread. The long cooldown on the gauss meant that even if alpha'ed together first all the following damage is spread out and not being alpha'ed together anymore. I guess it was to show unlimited energy? but your energy comes back anyway. It's supposed to.

Doesn't require that much deductive reasoning, the point was 50 point alphas that can be fired multiple times are not indeed gone, and that on top you can sustain said 50 point damage builds in the current pts.

Edited by SnafuSnafu, 27 August 2016 - 04:59 PM.

[davoodoo]

SnafuSnafu, on 27 August 2016 - 02:17 PM, said:

Doesn't require that much deductive reasoning, the point was 50 point alphas that can be fired multiple times are not indeed gone, and that you can sustain 50 point damage builds in the current pts.

Well yeah, if you bring absolute longest cooldown weapons and not even significant amount of them then yeah they can fired without problem.

I can bring 2uac20 double tap after i regen energy and then wait extra 3s after cooldown expires and call it heat efficient 80 dmg alpha...

or simply bring 3 uac10 which will do 60 dmg with doubletap without triggering any ghost heat...

Edited by davoodoo, 27 August 2016 - 03:07 PM.

[ScarecrowES]

ED was full of holes from day one, and that's only going expand the more ghost rules PGI puts into the system.

Pretty soon, mechs will be limited to slap fighting with a single small laser, and even then people will complain that this guy killed me faster than I killed him.

[SnafuSnafu]

davoodoo, on 27 August 2016 - 03:06 PM, said:

Well yeah, if you bring absolute longest cooldown weapons and not even significant amount of them then yeah they can fired without problem.

I can bring 2uac20 double tap after i regen energy and then wait extra 3s after cooldown expires and call it heat efficient 80 dmg alpha...

or simply bring 3 uac10 which will do 60 dmg with doubletap without triggering any ghost heat...

Clan UACs are not pinpoint, they're actually fine for the most part, even with the high value you'll often see UAC Direwolves and Bears loose to the smaller, but more efficient UAC/AC5 Maulers .

What I'm showing is a 50 point alpha repeatable, the very thing Ghost Heat and Energy Draw were suppose to curve, which also happens to be fully sustainable.

ScarecrowES, on 27 August 2016 - 03:09 PM, said:

ED was full of holes from day one, and that's only going expand the more ghost rules PGI puts into the system.

Pretty soon, mechs will be limited to slap fighting with a single small laser, and even then people will complain that this guy killed me faster than I killed him.

That's why there are PTS for these things.

Edited by SnafuSnafu, 27 August 2016 - 05:05 PM.