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Can We Try A 30 Heat Cap Test On Pts Please?


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#1 GreenHell

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Posted 09 September 2016 - 09:06 AM

Just as the title says, can we PLEASE try a 30 point heat cap across all mechs? No "heat scaling", no "energy draw", just 30 points of heat to work with (with maybe some adjusted heat sink dissipation values, and removed capacity stats from heatsinks).

I want to see and feel the 30 heat cap to see weather or not it feels good. Would it be possible to try this during the PTS? A response from PGI would be great.

#2 Gentleman Reaper

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Posted 09 September 2016 - 09:09 AM

You won't get a response from PGI here, twitter would be your only chance and even then Russ doesn't respond unless it's related to something they're actually doing. I've already asked him about a fixed heat cap and got no reply, so they're likely not planning on doing so.

#3 kapusta11

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Posted 09 September 2016 - 09:40 AM

Look at him, he wants a dev response, mwahahahah!

#4 ScarecrowES

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Posted 09 September 2016 - 10:54 AM

I don't often give credit to PGI for much development intelligence, but never even entertaining the possibility of a universal 30pt heat scale is one of the smartest things they've ever done.

It's literally one of the worst ideas players ever parrot on the forums. If those players would think, even for a second, about what a 30pt heat scale actually does to the game, they'd feel ashamed for their stupidity and never mention it again.

#5 davoodoo

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Posted 09 September 2016 - 11:39 AM

20 dhs in tt, i fire 60 heat worth of weapons and end up with 20/30 heat.
i got 20 dhs in mwo, they add 40 heat capacity(lets assume they are trudubs), i fire 60 heat worth of weapons, i end up with 60/70 heat.

Difference??

Edited by davoodoo, 09 September 2016 - 11:41 AM.


#6 kapusta11

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Posted 09 September 2016 - 12:15 PM

View Postdavoodoo, on 09 September 2016 - 11:39 AM, said:

20 dhs in tt, i fire 60 heat worth of weapons and end up with 20/30 heat.
i got 20 dhs in mwo, they add 40 heat capacity(lets assume they are trudubs), i fire 60 heat worth of weapons, i end up with 60/70 heat.

Difference??


Here's a better example:

20 DHS in TT (40 heat "cap", 40h/turn dissipation)
I fire 40 worth of weapons and end up with 0/30 heat
next turn
I fire 40 worth of weapons and end up with 0/30 heat
next turn
I fire 40 worth of weapons and end up with 0/30 heat
etc.

20 DHS in MWO (65 heat cap, 4h/s dissipation)
I fire 40 worth of weapons (4 sec cooldown) and end up with 40/65 heat
4 sec later weapons are ready to fire again
I fire 40 worth of weapons and end up with 64/65 heat (16 heat dissipated, 40 heat generated)
4 sec later weapons are ready to fire again
Oops, with 48/65 heat you can't actually fire again

Tl:dr

TT: manage heat in the mechlab
MWO: manage heat on the battlefield

Edited by kapusta11, 09 September 2016 - 01:01 PM.


#7 ScarecrowES

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Posted 09 September 2016 - 01:50 PM

View Postkapusta11, on 09 September 2016 - 12:15 PM, said:


Here's a better example:

20 DHS in TT (40 heat "cap", 40h/turn dissipation)
I fire 40 worth of weapons and end up with 0/30 heat
next turn
I fire 40 worth of weapons and end up with 0/30 heat
next turn
I fire 40 worth of weapons and end up with 0/30 heat
etc.

20 DHS in MWO (65 heat cap, 4h/s dissipation)
I fire 40 worth of weapons (4 sec cooldown) and end up with 40/65 heat
4 sec later weapons are ready to fire again
I fire 40 worth of weapons and end up with 64/65 heat (16 heat dissipated, 40 heat generated)
4 sec later weapons are ready to fire again
Oops, with 48/65 heat you can't actually fire again

Tl:dr

TT: manage heat in the mechlab
MWO: manage heat on the battlefield


This is completely misrepresenting the system. And I believe that obfuscation is intentional.

If you could only fire your weapons in MWO as frequently as in TT, the results would be exactly the same. Remember that every weapon cooldown in TT is 10 seconds. In MWO, it's anywhere between 2 seconds and 6 seconds.

Once you factor in skills, the complete heat cap in MWO is the same as in TT - 2x number of DHS. And the dissipation rate is the same as well - 1/10th heat capacity per second.

In TT, if you have 20 DHS, you've got a 40 heat cap + 30 penalty cap for 70 total heat.

In MWO, with skills, you'll end up with a 76.8 heat cap.

In TT, you'll have a 4pts/sec dissipation rate.

In MWO, with skills, you'll end up with a 3.91pts/sec dissipation rate.

Those numbers are within a few percent of each other, so let's pretend they're exactly the same.

The base reality of the heat system is that the time you spend cooling is the same for a given amount of damage no matter at what rate you do it. This is true in MWO and in TT. In TT, though, you're regulated to firing once every 10 seconds no matter what. So what happens when you can fire more quickly, as in MWO.

I fire 40pts of damage... let's use the PPC cooldown rate of 4 seconds.

I fire 4xPPCs for 40pts of heat. In TT, that is 100% of my heat cap, 0% of my penalty cap. In MWO, that's 57% of my heat cap.

I dissipate 4pts of heat per second over 4 seconds for 16 points of heat dissipated over the cycle of the PPCs. In TT, my heat cap is now at 24 of 40pts, or 60% heat, penalty cap at 0%. In MWO, my cap is at 34%

I fire immediately again, adding 40 heat to 24 heat for 64 heat. In TT this exceeds my heat cap, so I add 24 of 30 pts to my penalty meter too, 80%. I am penalized SEVERLY for carrying this level of heat. In MWO, I simply move up to 91% heat (64 of 70).

I dissipate 4pts of heat per second over 4 seconds for 16 points of heat dissipated over the cycle of the PPCs. In TT, my heat cap is now at 24 of 40pts, or 60% heat. In MWO, my cap is at 68% 48 of 70). However, the penalty bar in TT dissipates at a different rate than the heat cap bar. It dissipates at a rate of 1/10th of the UNUSED heat cap per second. We produced 16 unused cap over cooldown, averaged to 8 over the duration, which is a rate of 0.8 per second, or 3.2 points dissipated from the heat penalty bar. Thus, my penalty bar is only reduced to 20.8pts - 70%. I'm still receiving SEVERE penalties.

I fire immediately again, adding 40 heat to 24 heat for 64 heat (TT), or to 48 heat for 88 heat (MWO). In TT this exceeds my heat cap, so I add 24 of 30 pts to my penalty meter, which is at 20.8pts, for 44.8pts. Automatic shutdown exceeded by 14.8 pts.

In MWO, automatic shutdown exceeded by 18pts, which takes 4.5 seconds to dissipate back down to the max heat cap. It takes about 8.5 seconds for for the TT penalty bar to dissipate down to the max heat cap.

So as we can see... You actually get the SAME number of alphas in either system. That's because the only consideration to damage output over time is the heat of your weapons, the heat cap of your mech, and the rate of dissipation, which are basically the same in both TT and MWO.

As you can see, the practical difference between TT and MWO is penalties. In the above scenario, I was experiencing severe penalties after the second alpha, and continued to experience those penalties all the way through the return of shutdown (12.5 seconds) and well beyond. It would have taken another 12.5 seconds of not moving or firing at all to dissipate enough heat to no longer receive any penalties. If you were to have stopped firing immediately when you shut down, and did not fire again until all penalties were cleared, you will have experienced some level of heat penalty for a full 25 seconds.

The worst that happened under the MWO system is that you shut down for a few seconds. A few seconds later, you'd be firing again penalty-free. Under the TT system though, you'd be suffering to try to keep your damage up.

The heat system in TT hurts you a LOT more than the one in MWO. Simply put. In both systems, the total amount of damage you can put out compared to the total amount of time you spend cooling is EXACTLY the same, regardless of what MWO's cooldowns are set to.

Oh, and if PPC cooldowns were 10 seconds, like they are in TT? You'd be heat neutral in MWO too. So please don't spout nonsense.

Edited by ScarecrowES, 09 September 2016 - 02:07 PM.


#8 davoodoo

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Posted 09 September 2016 - 02:38 PM

View Postkapusta11, on 09 September 2016 - 12:15 PM, said:


Here's a better example:

20 DHS in TT (40 heat "cap", 40h/turn dissipation)
I fire 40 worth of weapons and end up with 0/30 heat
next turn
I fire 40 worth of weapons and end up with 0/30 heat
next turn
I fire 40 worth of weapons and end up with 0/30 heat
etc.

20 DHS in MWO (65 heat cap, 4h/s dissipation)
I fire 40 worth of weapons (4 sec cooldown) and end up with 40/65 heat
4 sec later weapons are ready to fire again
I fire 40 worth of weapons and end up with 64/65 heat (16 heat dissipated, 40 heat generated)
4 sec later weapons are ready to fire again
Oops, with 48/65 heat you can't actually fire again

Tl:dr

TT: manage heat in the mechlab
MWO: manage heat on the battlefield

Again we got "one and half heat sinks" not double heat sinks.
And heat dissipation isnt adjusted for cooldowns... shs dissipate 0.1heat per second, while dhs dissipate 0.15heat per second, despite ppc being able to fire every 4 seconds on live, shs should dissipate 0.25, dhs should dissipate 0.5, with 1 and 2 heat capacity respectively and with 10 shs/5dhs ppc would then be heat neutral.

If on mech with 10 shs you fire 1 ppc once every 10 seconds it will be heat neutral.

Edited by davoodoo, 09 September 2016 - 02:42 PM.


#9 Pjwned

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Posted 09 September 2016 - 07:33 PM

View PostPjwned, on 03 March 2016 - 12:31 AM, said:


In the past I've agreed with the idea of lowering the heat threshold and increasing dissipation in order to add a real heat scale, but the problem with doing this strictly without first changing things up is that heat generation is handled a lot differently in MWO than it is in TT.

Let's take a stock Warhawk for example. It has 4 C-ER PPCs equipped, and assuming it starts at 0 heat and there aren't other heat penalties applied (moving, engine damage, whatever else) it can fire those 4 ER PPCs once and not shut down because it will be left with 20 (out of 30) heat due to having 20 DHS which dissipates 40 heat. Of course, it needs to deal with various penalties for the heat going that high, and it can't fire very many weapons next turn without some real problems occurring, but at least it can do that and not shut down let alone be egregiously over the heat cap.

In MWO however, If you fire those 4 C-ER PPCs at once with a heat cap of 30, your mech shuts down instantly because all of a sudden you deal with generating 60 heat at once, and if there was also a real heat scale with actual penalties for having too much heat then it would be even worse. This is obviously drastically different from TT and makes it very punishing to fire high heat weapons, i.e energy weapons.

If we want to change the heat scale in MWO and reduce the heat cap to 30 to be more like TT then we need to also change heat generation to be more like TT, such as by making weapons generate heat over a period of time rather than instantly or by changing how heatsinks behave to make them store heat (somewhat like increasing heat capacity but not quite the same) or whatever other solution there might be.


#10 ScarecrowES

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Posted 09 September 2016 - 08:16 PM

View PostPjwned, on 09 September 2016 - 07:33 PM, said:



Pretty much all truth. Of course, if you go through all that... lower the heat of weapons to accomodate your lower heat scale, you really haven't accomplished anything.

Of course, I've been able to demonstrate that using the TT system outright already does what everyone wants from the MWO heat scale, without breaking anything about the current gameplay and weapon stats.

It ends up working mostly like the existing MWO heat system, but ends up punishing the player more for excess damage output. In fact, it punishes it more than either ED or GH do, without actually taking these heavy-handed approaches.

There's no need to overcomplicate it. The TT system is readily adaptable to a real-time system now that the coding behind ED has been put in.

#11 kapusta11

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Posted 09 September 2016 - 09:46 PM

View PostScarecrowES, on 09 September 2016 - 01:50 PM, said:


This is completely misrepresenting the system. And I believe that obfuscation is intentional.

If you could only fire your weapons in MWO as frequently as in TT, the results would be exactly the same. Remember that every weapon cooldown in TT is 10 seconds. In MWO, it's anywhere between 2 seconds and 6 seconds.

Once you factor in skills, the complete heat cap in MWO is the same as in TT - 2x number of DHS. And the dissipation rate is the same as well - 1/10th heat capacity per second.

In TT, if you have 20 DHS, you've got a 40 heat cap + 30 penalty cap for 70 total heat.

In MWO, with skills, you'll end up with a 76.8 heat cap.

In TT, you'll have a 4pts/sec dissipation rate.

In MWO, with skills, you'll end up with a 3.91pts/sec dissipation rate.

Those numbers are within a few percent of each other, so let's pretend they're exactly the same.

The base reality of the heat system is that the time you spend cooling is the same for a given amount of damage no matter at what rate you do it. This is true in MWO and in TT. In TT, though, you're regulated to firing once every 10 seconds no matter what. So what happens when you can fire more quickly, as in MWO.

I fire 40pts of damage... let's use the PPC cooldown rate of 4 seconds.

I fire 4xPPCs for 40pts of heat. In TT, that is 100% of my heat cap, 0% of my penalty cap. In MWO, that's 57% of my heat cap.

I dissipate 4pts of heat per second over 4 seconds for 16 points of heat dissipated over the cycle of the PPCs. In TT, my heat cap is now at 24 of 40pts, or 60% heat, penalty cap at 0%. In MWO, my cap is at 34%

I fire immediately again, adding 40 heat to 24 heat for 64 heat. In TT this exceeds my heat cap, so I add 24 of 30 pts to my penalty meter too, 80%. I am penalized SEVERLY for carrying this level of heat. In MWO, I simply move up to 91% heat (64 of 70).

I dissipate 4pts of heat per second over 4 seconds for 16 points of heat dissipated over the cycle of the PPCs. In TT, my heat cap is now at 24 of 40pts, or 60% heat. In MWO, my cap is at 68% 48 of 70). However, the penalty bar in TT dissipates at a different rate than the heat cap bar. It dissipates at a rate of 1/10th of the UNUSED heat cap per second. We produced 16 unused cap over cooldown, averaged to 8 over the duration, which is a rate of 0.8 per second, or 3.2 points dissipated from the heat penalty bar. Thus, my penalty bar is only reduced to 20.8pts - 70%. I'm still receiving SEVERE penalties.

I fire immediately again, adding 40 heat to 24 heat for 64 heat (TT), or to 48 heat for 88 heat (MWO). In TT this exceeds my heat cap, so I add 24 of 30 pts to my penalty meter, which is at 20.8pts, for 44.8pts. Automatic shutdown exceeded by 14.8 pts.

In MWO, automatic shutdown exceeded by 18pts, which takes 4.5 seconds to dissipate back down to the max heat cap. It takes about 8.5 seconds for for the TT penalty bar to dissipate down to the max heat cap.

So as we can see... You actually get the SAME number of alphas in either system. That's because the only consideration to damage output over time is the heat of your weapons, the heat cap of your mech, and the rate of dissipation, which are basically the same in both TT and MWO.

As you can see, the practical difference between TT and MWO is penalties. In the above scenario, I was experiencing severe penalties after the second alpha, and continued to experience those penalties all the way through the return of shutdown (12.5 seconds) and well beyond. It would have taken another 12.5 seconds of not moving or firing at all to dissipate enough heat to no longer receive any penalties. If you were to have stopped firing immediately when you shut down, and did not fire again until all penalties were cleared, you will have experienced some level of heat penalty for a full 25 seconds.

The worst that happened under the MWO system is that you shut down for a few seconds. A few seconds later, you'd be firing again penalty-free. Under the TT system though, you'd be suffering to try to keep your damage up.

The heat system in TT hurts you a LOT more than the one in MWO. Simply put. In both systems, the total amount of damage you can put out compared to the total amount of time you spend cooling is EXACTLY the same, regardless of what MWO's cooldowns are set to.

Oh, and if PPC cooldowns were 10 seconds, like they are in TT? You'd be heat neutral in MWO too. So please don't spout nonsense.


I see you missed the whole point.

It doesn't matter whether TT has 10 sec turn or 20 or whatever else. You have an opportunity to fire your weapons, be it energy weapons or heat neutral ones, once every turn.

In MWO you have an opportunity to fire weapons once every 4 sec (on average) BUT you can do so repeatedly only with heat neutral weapons. The ones that gererate sizeable amount of heat inevitably hit shutdown cap wall and their effective dps drops to what it would've been had their weapon cooldowns were 10 sec long.

This creates a distinction between dps dakka mechs and alpha strike laser boats. One is good because of high sustainable dps and the other because of high alpha.

In TT there's no such distinction. Energy boats can do the same damage AC/Gauss boats do every turn, so long as they carry enough DHSs.

Edited by kapusta11, 09 September 2016 - 11:11 PM.


#12 ScarecrowES

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Posted 09 September 2016 - 10:25 PM

View Postkapusta11, on 09 September 2016 - 09:46 PM, said:


I see you missed the whole point.

It doesn't matter whether TT has 10 sec turn or 20 or whatever else. You have an opportunity to fire your weapons, be it energy weapons or heat neutral ones, once every turn.

In MWO you have an opportunity to fire weapons once every 4 sec (on average) BUT you can do so only with heat neutral weapons. The ones that gererate sizeable amount of heat inevitably hit shutdown cap wall and their effective dps drops to what it would've been had their weapon cooldowns were 10 sec long.

This creates a distinction between dps dakka mechs and alpha strike laser boats. One is good because of high sustainable dps and the other bocause of high alpha.

In TT there's no such distinction. Energy boats can do the same damage AC/Gauss boats do every turn, so long as they carry enough DHSs.


I understand the actual words you're saying here, but I suppose I'm just struggling to see what you MEAN by them.

The actual cooldown values for weapons in MWO are fundementally arbitrary. In nearly all cases (with the exception of the gauss rifle which is an exceptional case) cooldowns do not define the actual, practical damage output of a mech over a given amount of time. That output is predetermined by your build, its heat cap, and its dissipation rate. Whether we're talking TT, or MWO's adaptation of TT, your mech's performance is predetermined from the moment you fill in the last armor bubble or click save.

In reality, cooldowns can only actually modify the pacing of how different weapons do damage as a means to balance the mechanics of how that damage is done. Thus, cooldowns have no practical application in controlling the overall tempo of battle. Their only practical application is in balancing weapons against each other... something that's unnecessary in TT because all weapons have the same mechanics. There's no "spread" or "duration" or "drop" to be concerned about, thus all damage has the same "value" relative to any other damage. MWO has those other factors... thus something like 10pts of PPC damage is actually more valuable than 10pts of laser damage. This is why you give PPCs longer cooldowns.

So these distinctions you're talking about are part of the weapon balancing mechanics of MWO. It really has nothing to do with the combat pacing restriction mechanics that are the domain of the heat system. You cannot, then, hope to balance the manner in which damage is put out by messing with the heat system, and you cannot hope to balance combat pacing by messing with weapon stats.

This is EXACTLY what ED is trying to do. Though, interestingly, it didn't try to do that AT FIRST. ED, at its base, is an enforced cooldown system. Do too much damage in too little time, and face additional cooldown time. BUT, you're still not exceeding, at any point, the combat pacing inherent to the system's design. Note what I said above... you can't adjust combat pacing through cooldowns... they have nothing to do with each other.

So what happened to the blanket 30pt damage cap after the first week? It started breaking down to a per-weapon system, where each weapon had a different draw value, right. ED PTS1 attemtped to basically give every weapon the same "cooldown," and it threw balance off. Now, PTS3 has draw values consistent with cooldown values, right? In the sense that the draw of a weapon reflects the relative value of its damage compared to other weapons.

As we've seen through testing, ED does absolutely NOTHING for combat pacing. Mechs are still putting out the same damage over the same time period. What's changed is weapon balance. Because what ED actually IS, is a weapon balance mechanic, NOT a combat pacing mechanic. And it can never BE a combat pacing mechanic because it doesn't make any changes to any of the 3 factors that determine combat pacing... your build, its heat capacity, and its dissipation rate.

So there's that.

Beyond that... there literally IS a distinction between between energy and ballistic boats in TT, just as there is in MWO. There is a balancing point in weapon stats between damage output, range, and investment requirements for each weapon.

Investment is a factor of everything required in your build to make that weapon usable in combat. Ballistic weapons have their investments spent directly in weapon weight and crits, and secondarily in ammo. Energy weapons have low investments in weight and crits, proportionally, but require a great investment in heat sinks to keep them cool.

If you look at all weapons throughout BT, you'll see this theme. Two weapons of equal damage and range will require equal investment, one way or another. Two similar weapons, same damage, one with more range? The one with more range requires more investment.

Doesn't matter if TT or MWO, this distinction you see is entirely mechanical, and is a factor of weapon balance. It has nothing to do with the heat system per se. Each weapon has its investment requirements. Energy weapons pay for theirs in heat sinks, ballistics pay for it in weight and crits.

Edited by ScarecrowES, 09 September 2016 - 10:26 PM.


#13 Kuaron

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Posted 09 September 2016 - 10:47 PM

View PostPjwned, on 09 September 2016 - 07:33 PM, said:


Wait a minute.
Is damage in TT pinpoint, so do all 4 PPCs hit the same component?
Because if not, the Warhawk from your TT example is best simulated by one firing it's weapons over a period of 10 seconds.

#14 kapusta11

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Posted 10 September 2016 - 12:23 AM

View PostScarecrowES, on 09 September 2016 - 10:25 PM, said:


I understand the actual words you're saying here, but I suppose I'm just struggling to see what you MEAN by them.


Well, I'm struggling to see what's your point either.

You quote me and say:

View PostScarecrowES, on 09 September 2016 - 10:25 PM, said:

This is completely misrepresenting the system. And I believe that obfuscation is intentional.


and your main argument was "If":

View PostScarecrowES, on 09 September 2016 - 10:25 PM, said:

If you could only fire your weapons in MWO as frequently as in TT, the results would be exactly the same.


But you don't fire weapons in MWO as often as you do in TT and that's the whole point. Where is this "misrepresentation" you're talking about?

And next time please be more concise, more words != better argument.

Edited by kapusta11, 10 September 2016 - 12:24 AM.


#15 Dee Eight

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Posted 10 September 2016 - 01:50 AM

View PostKuaron, on 09 September 2016 - 10:47 PM, said:

Wait a minute.
Is damage in TT pinpoint, so do all 4 PPCs hit the same component?
Because if not, the Warhawk from your TT example is best simulated by one firing it's weapons over a period of 10 seconds.


No...in TT the hit location is determined by rolling 2d6 and consulting a table. Each weapon hits a random location. Except for shut down mechs, there is not perfectly aimed and converging fire, because ALL parts of combat are considered to be occurring in the same 10 second turn. determine initiative, Movement, torso twists, weapons fire, physical attacks, and then heat/damage resolution in that order, repeat until its a win/loss/tie result. You also had to make to-hit rolls for every weapon you fired, individually. Until the introduction of MG arrays, there was no grouped weapons fire with a single to-hit roll for multiple weapons at once, EXCEPT when it came to starship combat.

So...using the 4 PPC warhawk... 4 to hit rolls, potentially 4 location rolls. However the classic Warhawk-Prime, with only 20 DHS, could only shoot all four ONCE before suffering some major heat table rolls/results. One volley for 60 heat, with 40 dissipation leaves a net 20 at the end of the turn (assuming the mech didn't move also that turn, and started at zero heat). At 20 heat you have to roll to avoid an ammunition explosion, shutdown, and you also incur penalties to your movement rate and to-hit rolls for the next turn. If you tried that 4 PPC combo again, you'd be looking at auto-shutdown and also pretty much a guaranteed ammo explosion of that ton of LRM 10 ammo the mech carries. If you were firing that thing also as the ER-PPCs...well...that's another 4 heat to deal with the effects of. The usual TT play was 2 PPCs and the LRM10 until its ammo was exhausted and THEN the hail marry quad firing near the end of combat....not opening combat with it.

Edited by Dee Eight, 10 September 2016 - 02:08 AM.


#16 Kuaron

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Posted 10 September 2016 - 04:25 AM

Alright.
But then there is no point in complaining to not being able to volley-firing all four.
If one fires them one by one, dissipating a part of the heat in between and after 10 seconds and four shots ending up with a heat warning, is how it should be in MWO to best suit the TT.

So yes, in this case we should reduce the the heat capacity in the game largely.
We only need to introduce a limitation for ballistics to keep them balanced to the hotter energy weapons. Btw, how is this part solved in TT? Solely by armour limitation?

#17 davoodoo

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Posted 10 September 2016 - 07:07 AM

View PostKuaron, on 10 September 2016 - 04:25 AM, said:

We only need to introduce a limitation for ballistics to keep them balanced to the hotter energy weapons. Btw, how is this part solved in TT? Solely by armour limitation?

Ballistics are balanced by their weight...

You have gauss at 15 tons that deals 15 dmg for 1 heat.
Ok so 15 tons weapon, 1 ton of ammo(8 turns of fire), 1 dhs to cool it off. 17 tons total.

Or you can take 2 llas, 5 tons each, 10 total, 4 dhs per laser to make it heat neutral, 8 total and make 16 dmg for 18 tons with 2 chances for crit and 0 possibility of explosion.

There are only 4 limitations in tt, 1)heat, 2)tonnage, 3)slots, 4)jams.

Edited by davoodoo, 10 September 2016 - 07:10 AM.


#18 Kuaron

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Posted 10 September 2016 - 07:14 AM

The thing is that the weapon types are balanced in MWO atm (the way you put it), but lowering heat capacity would nerf hot weapons more, than cold ones. And we need to keep the balance.
I like the idea of a recoil bar with increasing effects someone suggested (I mentioned it in some other thread lately), but there may be other ones. Maybe a jam chance for non-ultra ACs when fired several at once. Otherwise ammo would have to carry less rounds per ton to keep the balance by weight alone.

Edited by Kuaron, 10 September 2016 - 07:17 AM.


#19 davoodoo

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Posted 10 September 2016 - 07:17 AM

And that is my problem, another attempt to reinvent the wheel...
Lets make them squared, maybe cart will drive better.

Ballistics are ******* powerful because heat sinks were always nerfed.

#20 Kuaron

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Posted 10 September 2016 - 07:22 AM

But this wheel would work and make sense, contrary to GH and ED. :)





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