203 replies to this topic

[ScarecrowES]

Single heat sinks worth more heat cap than doubles? Non-existent dissipation rates? And "WTF" weapon stat changes?

Is PGI just doubling down on the crazy? What the hell are they thinking? After this many years of constant development, we're obviously quite used to balance by dartboard, but this... what Bizzarro World BS is this?

[davoodoo]

ScarecrowES, on 12 September 2016 - 10:38 AM, said:

Single heat sinks worth more heat cap than doubles?

What??

No nvm ive just read. wtf...
Less capacity than tt, less dissipation than tt.
Weapons are just wtf, lrm changes which doesnt balance lrms...also lets nerf uac20 bit further not unpopular enough.

And ive just had some fun playing this event... update just reminded me its not gonna last.

Edited by davoodoo, 12 September 2016 - 10:46 AM.

[Wintersdark]

ScarecrowES, on 12 September 2016 - 10:38 AM, said:

Single heat sinks worth more heat cap than doubles? Non-existent dissipation rates? And "WTF" weapon stat changes?

Is PGI just doubling down on the crazy? What the hell are they thinking? After this many years of constant development, we're obviously quite used to balance by dartboard, but this... what Bizzarro World BS is this?

People have asked for this for years.

Reducing the heatcap gain from DHS to 1.0 lowers heat capacity by roughly 20, pushing towards a lower-cap model. We've been asking for this literally since DHS where first added to the game.

SHS getting 1.2 cap (but still low dissipation) helps give them a role in the game; though I don't think they'll be used anyways.

I've argued for lower cap/higher dissipation; this is only one side of that, but I'll take it and give it a go. It's the first time PGI has relented on lowering heat capacity in four years.

Dissipation rates are staying the same, they're not nerfed.

[Gas Guzzler]

Wintersdark, on 12 September 2016 - 10:43 AM, said:

People have asked for this for years.

Reducing the heatcap gain from DHS to 1.0 lowers heat capacity by roughly 20, pushing towards a lower-cap model. We've been asking for this literally since DHS where first added to the game.

SHS getting 1.2 cap (but still low dissipation) helps give them a role in the game; though I don't think they'll be used anyways.

I've argued for lower cap/higher dissipation; this is only one side of that, but I'll take it and give it a go. It's the first time PGI has relented on lowering heat capacity in four years.

Dissipation rates are staying the same, they're not nerfed.

People have been asking for lower heat cap and higher dissipation rates (some people, not all), not all that PLUS the Energy Draw system.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 12 September 2016 - 10:45 AM.

[ScarecrowES]

Wintersdark, on 12 September 2016 - 10:43 AM, said:

People have asked for this for years.

Reducing the heatcap gain from DHS to 1.0 lowers heat capacity by roughly 20, pushing towards a lower-cap model. We've been asking for this literally since DHS where first added to the game.

SHS getting 1.2 cap (but still low dissipation) helps give them a role in the game; though I don't think they'll be used anyways.

I've argued for lower cap/higher dissipation; this is only one side of that, but I'll take it and give it a go. It's the first time PGI has relented on lowering heat capacity in four years.

Dissipation rates are staying the same, they're not nerfed.

I can't imagine how insane a person would have to be to think ANY of that is a good idea.

Literally unfathomable to me. I can't even begin to understand the thought process here.

[kapusta11]

Wintersdark, on 12 September 2016 - 10:43 AM, said:

I've argued for lower cap/higher dissipation; this is only one side of that, but I'll take it and give it a go. It's the first time PGI has relented on lowering heat capacity in four years.

PGI obviously missed "higher dissipation" part as it's now lower than it was before due to skill tree nerf.

[davoodoo]

Not only heat dissipation is still lower than tt, but also cap is now lower than tt...
Lets nerf dps and then lets nerf already nerfed alphas...on top of system which nerfs alphas and nerfed dps... on top of double armor.

Edited by davoodoo, 12 September 2016 - 10:51 AM.

[Wintersdark]

ScarecrowES, on 12 September 2016 - 10:46 AM, said:

I can't imagine how insane a person would have to be to think ANY of that is a good idea.

Literally unfathomable to me. I can't even begin to understand the thought process here.

Low cap high dissipation? Why? Now, people have been arguing for that without GH or ED, for sure. I still think it's better than GH and ED as well.

LC/HD means you simply lack the heat capacity to fire everything at once, but your heat drops quickly, so you can fire other weapons sooner. This, in and of itself, really replaces the need for GH or ED (well, excepting goosewaffle issues, but that's where charge and such comes in).

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Wintersdark, on 12 September 2016 - 10:43 AM, said:

It's the first time PGI has relented on lowering heat capacity in four years.

Dissipation rates are staying the same, they're not nerfed.

Sadly, this is a 6 months to a year too late as in live energy boats aren't near the powerhouse they were, nor is the Space Whale (which is one of the original reasons this was needed). Maybe if they restore the power of things like Clan ERMLs and such it might mean something, but until then this is just an overnerf to energy weapons.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 12 September 2016 - 10:50 AM.

[Wintersdark]

davoodoo, on 12 September 2016 - 10:49 AM, said:

Not only heat dissipation is still lower than tt, but also cap is now lower than tt...
Lets nerf dps and then lets nerf alphas...

Cap isn't lower than TT. Dissipation is slightly lower than TT; on live it's roughly equal because (after skills) we have 2.0 DHS for normal mech builds (though there are diminishing returns after 20DHS)

Cap on TT is 30, flat. Here it's 30+DHS*1; so realistically 48-50 for most builds.

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 12 September 2016 - 10:49 AM, said:

Sadly, this is a 6 months to a year too late as in live energy boats aren't near the powerhouse they were, nor is the Space Whale (which is one of the original reasons this was needed). Maybe if they restore the power of things like Clan ERMLs and such it might mean something, but until then this is just an overnerf to energy weapons.

We've asked for LC/HD since long, LONG before lasers were good weapons. Even before PPC's where good weapons.

[Gas Guzzler]

Wintersdark, on 12 September 2016 - 10:49 AM, said:

Low cap high dissipation? Why? Now, people have been arguing for that without GH or ED, for sure. I still think it's better than GH and ED as well.

LC/HD means you simply lack the heat capacity to fire everything at once, but your heat drops quickly, so you can fire other weapons sooner. This, in and of itself, really replaces the need for GH or ED (well, excepting goosewaffle issues, but that's where charge and such comes in).

Any dissipation change here iso negligble. It's same dissipation, lower heat cap, plus energy draw. So PGI got one out of 3 things right by what some people requested.

[ScarecrowES]

Wintersdark, on 12 September 2016 - 10:52 AM, said:

Cap isn't lower than TT. Dissipation is slightly lower than TT; on live it's roughly equal because (after skills) we have 2.0 DHS for normal mech builds (though there are diminishing returns after 20DHS)

Cap on TT is 30, flat. Here it's 30+DHS*1; so realistically 48-50 for most builds.


We've asked for LC/HD since long, LONG before lasers were good weapons. Even before PPC's where good weapons.

You literally have no idea how TT works, do you?

[davoodoo]

Wintersdark, on 12 September 2016 - 10:52 AM, said:

Cap isn't lower than TT.

tt. 20 dhs gives me 40 extra heat to use so i can fire 70 heat before shutdown.
pts4 20 dhs gives me 20 extra cap so i can fire 50 heat before shutddown.

Dear sir you spew ******** and you dont know how tt works.

Edited by davoodoo, 12 September 2016 - 10:55 AM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Wintersdark, on 12 September 2016 - 10:52 AM, said:

We've asked for LC/HD since long, LONG before lasers were good weapons. Even before PPC's where good weapons.

I was talking about lower capacity and equal dissipation.

Gas Guzzler, on 12 September 2016 - 10:52 AM, said:

Any dissipation change here iso negligble. It's same dissipation, lower heat cap, plus energy draw. So PGI got one out of 3 things right by what some people requested.

If they would just unnerf energy weapons, and remove energy draw, we would be golden.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 12 September 2016 - 10:56 AM.

[FupDup]

Gas Guzzler, on 12 September 2016 - 10:52 AM, said:

Any dissipation change here iso negligble. It's same dissipation, lower heat cap, plus energy draw. So PGI got one out of 3 things right by what some people requested.

The engine DHS got their dissipation nerfed (0.2 down to 0.17), along with both Cool Run and Heat Containment being nerfed to 2.5%.

They got zero out of three things requested done right.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

FupDup, on 12 September 2016 - 10:55 AM, said:

The engine DHS got their dissipation nerfed (0.2 down to 0.17), along with both Cool Run and Heat Containment being nerfed to 2.5%.

I'm ok with this, I still think the first 10 heat sinks should have equal dissipation though, regardless if they are DHS or SHS.

[Navid A1]

Wintersdark, on 12 September 2016 - 10:43 AM, said:

People have asked for this for years.

People have been asking for this MINUS that ED abomination.... MINUS ED... WITHOUT ED!

omg!


I actually like the lower heat cap.

Edited by Navid A1, 12 September 2016 - 11:05 AM.

[FupDup]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 12 September 2016 - 10:57 AM, said:

I'm ok with this, I still think the first 10 heat sinks should have equal dissipation though, regardless if they are DHS or SHS.

Fine, but when you see fewer lasers and more ballistics, don't act surprised...

[Wintersdark]

Gas Guzzler, on 12 September 2016 - 10:52 AM, said:

Any dissipation change here iso negligble. It's same dissipation, lower heat cap, plus energy draw. So PGI got one out of 3 things right by what some people requested.

Yes. I agree completely.



So test what we have.

You get that ranting because PGI doesn't do exactly as you want is utterly useless, right? This is what we've got, so work with it and give it a test.

In a perfect world, we'll find that it helps, and renders ED entirely unnecessary - that's entirely a possible result here, you know. But people just b***hing and moaning that the PTS doesn't have the exact overall set of changes they personally want is freaking stupid. Of course it doesn't, it can't. The changes Scarecrow wants are not the changes I want and the changes I want aren't the changes you want.

We're only ever going to get big mixes of changes. That's just how it's been, and how it's going to be. PGI's finally willing to test stuff they've never tried before, so try it.

And, before people chip in like I'm some drooling imbecile, yes I understand proper testing methodology, testing one thing at a time, etc. I get it. As always, I'm not standing up for PGI here; just saying make the best of what we've got rather than ranting uselessly about it.

[kapusta11]

Wintersdark, on 12 September 2016 - 10:52 AM, said:

Cap isn't lower than TT. Dissipation is slightly lower than TT; on live it's roughly equal because (after skills) we have 2.0 DHS for normal mech builds (though there are diminishing returns after 20DHS)

Cap on TT is 30, flat. Here it's 30+DHS*1; so realistically 48-50 for most builds.


We've asked for LC/HD since long, LONG before lasers were good weapons. Even before PPC's where good weapons.

Heat cap in TT is based on how many heat sinks you have. 30 pts heat scale is a separate thing.

It's true that dissipation in MWO is almost the same as in TT, weapon cooldowns however are not.

TT:
Fire AC20 once every turn (10 sec)
Fire PPC once every turn (10 sec)
5 DHS are needed to be able to fire PPC on "cooldown"

MWO:
Fire AC20 once every 4 sec
Fire PPC every 4 sec
12.5 DHS are needed to be able to fire PPC on cooldown