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At Last Pgi Has Listened And Are Trying Something


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#1 Greyhart

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Posted 13 September 2016 - 03:27 AM

I for one would like to thank PGI for testing the new heat cap and dissipation. I would also like to thank them for the comment on the 30 heat cap.

What we (as a community) need is more feedback from PGI as to ideas and suggestions. I am pleased to hear they tried a 30 heat cap and decided it was not right (that's enough for me).

I am glad they are trying new things on the PTS. I don't care if they are right or wrong because that is the point of the PTS to see if it works or not.

We wont get this type of feedback or the trials of ideas if as soon as they are announced people go into full whine mode. point out problems but keep the comments civil.

Now to see if we can get them to try incremental heat penalties!

#2 Tank Boy Ken

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Posted 13 September 2016 - 03:32 AM

I support this thread.

#3 Elizander

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Posted 13 September 2016 - 03:42 AM

A lot of people aren't used to this process and whine like little manchildren at every patch release.

#4 Greyhart

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Posted 13 September 2016 - 04:14 AM

I mean I could read those few sentences in the PTS post again and again. It looks like they read the forum and tried the ideas (on paper at least) adjusted them and think we should test and come back to them.

Really what more could you ask for from them?

Sure you might disagree but if you test and put it in the forum it appears that they listen and consider your views. It gives me that warm fuzzy feeling.

I shall be trying them out for sure.

edit

of course this reaction is because they previously seemed to have a very poor communication policy.

Edited by Greyhart, 13 September 2016 - 04:15 AM.


#5 ScarecrowES

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Posted 13 September 2016 - 05:16 AM

On the other hand, why thank PGI for wasting time on ideas that everyone already knows won't work. All this tells us is that PGI doesn't know what it is doing at all, and doesn't understand their own systems.

Or, that they just say they do things to shut people up. "We tried your terrible idea and -no surprise - it was crap."

As a long-time beta tester for dozens of games... what PGI is doing is the most haphazard development I've ever seen. They make changes without any appreciation for what the result will be, I assume just to see what people's reactions will be.

#6 Greyhart

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Posted 13 September 2016 - 06:15 AM

View PostScarecrowES, on 13 September 2016 - 05:16 AM, said:

On the other hand, why thank PGI for wasting time on ideas that everyone already knows won't work. All this tells us is that PGI doesn't know what it is doing at all, and doesn't understand their own systems.

Or, that they just say they do things to shut people up. "We tried your terrible idea and -no surprise - it was crap."

As a long-time beta tester for dozens of games... what PGI is doing is the most haphazard development I've ever seen. They make changes without any appreciation for what the result will be, I assume just to see what people's reactions will be.



What can i say. I really don't care that in your opinion it is a bad idea or really whether it is a bad idea or not. That is not the point.

What pleases me is the fact that they clearly have listened and are trying something in line with what has repeatedly been suggested. Whether it will work or not has been something that has been debated on the forums for years! So I am inclined to say it is not cut and dry.

for all I care they could be just doing it so they can say it didn't work and bin it. What is important is the interaction.

#7 Mcgral18

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Posted 13 September 2016 - 06:20 AM

They occasionally listen...but what they implement is rarely what was asked for

Whether poor understanding, or just ignoring certain core aspects and saying: "We tried, it doesn't work!"

See CW solo queue, the farce that it was.

#8 davoodoo

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Posted 13 September 2016 - 06:29 AM

View PostGreyhart, on 13 September 2016 - 06:15 AM, said:



What can i say. I really don't care that in your opinion it is a bad idea or really whether it is a bad idea or not. That is not the point.

What pleases me is the fact that they clearly have listened and are trying something in line with what has repeatedly been suggested. Whether it will work or not has been something that has been debated on the forums for years! So I am inclined to say it is not cut and dry.

for all I care they could be just doing it so they can say it didn't work and bin it. What is important is the interaction.

Sorry no it is relevant.

How long pgi is on market?? wikipedia claims since 2000.

They themselves should know how to balance game and make it enjoyable, if their players tell them **** wont work then who is professional here??

I would praise some unknown modder for trying out player feedback, i wont praise 16 year old company for this amateur approach.

Edited by davoodoo, 13 September 2016 - 06:30 AM.


#9 Greyhart

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Posted 13 September 2016 - 06:45 AM

View Postdavoodoo, on 13 September 2016 - 06:29 AM, said:

Sorry no it is relevant.

How long pgi is on market?? wikipedia claims since 2000.

They themselves should know how to balance game and make it enjoyable, if their players tell them **** wont work then who is professional here??

I would praise some unknown modder for trying out player feedback, i wont praise 16 year old company for this amateur approach.



I think you miss understand.

I would be more than happy for them to respond that it won't work. As they did with the 30 heat cap. As I pointed out in my first post.

What I am happy about is the interaction. I don't care if the test is stupid or not. feedback is good.

#10 ScarecrowES

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Posted 13 September 2016 - 08:23 AM

View PostGreyhart, on 13 September 2016 - 06:45 AM, said:



I think you miss understand.

I would be more than happy for them to respond that it won't work. As they did with the 30 heat cap. As I pointed out in my first post.

What I am happy about is the interaction. I don't care if the test is stupid or not. feedback is good.


I generally applaud good communication between a developer and it's community. So any form of feedback is good, and I absolutely agree with you in this regard.

However, the fact that they tried the fixed 30-pt scale at all should be taken as a worrying sign, not a good one.

I get that some people wanted to try this. But that desire is born from a lack of understanding of how the heat system works, what factors are involved, and what happens when those factors are changed. No-one who has good understanding of how the heat system works would think to apply a universal heat cap, let alone one so low.

The MWO/TT heat system is not really all that complex. PGI just makes it seem as if it is more deep than it actually is. As shallow and simple as the system is, the devs should be able to understand, almost instinctively, what any change to the system would have.

I mean, these are guys who we'd expect to pour over each and every stat for every weapon with such careful consideration that they'd be able to predict with reasonable accuracy what effect raising a given weapon cooldown by 5% should have... or what effect dropping the duration on a laser by yadda yadda, or LRM spread by etc etc.

Something as fundamental and important to the function of one of the game's core systems as heat cap is? The effects of even MINOR changes to this are no brainers, really, for anyone who even understands the system A LITTLE. We know exactly what the results will be.

So the fact that PGI even entertained the possibility of "testing" this internally should worry you. It tells you one of a few things... either PGI really does not understand their system at all, and thus cannot predict what effect changes would have even as well as their own community can... or they are just pandering to the community, trying to placate certain people by feigning interest in their poorly-reasoned ideas. Neither of those options are comforting to me.

#11 Ragnahawk

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Posted 13 September 2016 - 08:29 AM

Mad because your losing your toys? Can't boat the alpha of a megazord? Whatttt? Blasphemy.

#12 Deathlike

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Posted 13 September 2016 - 11:05 AM

View PostRed FireAnt, on 13 September 2016 - 08:29 AM, said:

Mad because your losing your toys? Can't boat the alpha of a megazord? Whatttt? Blasphemy.


Nope, but seeing Lights nerfed a bit under the dissipation changes when they are already the worst class in the game... well, I'm sure nerfing underpowered mechs is a great idea!

#13 FupDup

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Posted 13 September 2016 - 11:12 AM

It's one thing to try something.

It's another thing to try things that are crappy.

#14 ScarecrowES

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Posted 13 September 2016 - 12:33 PM

View PostFupDup, on 13 September 2016 - 11:12 AM, said:

It's one thing to try something.

It's another thing to try things that are crappy.


And another to know something would be crappy before you tried it, but you try it anyway.

#15 Khobai

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Posted 13 September 2016 - 12:49 PM

except energy draw still exists

energy draw + lower capacity/dissipation + longer cooldown times/more jamming = hello kitty laser tag

youre only gonna be able to fire like one or two weapons at a time. and its going to complete defeat the point of playing an assault mech with 8+ weapons

#16 MechaBattler

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Posted 13 September 2016 - 01:21 PM

View PostKhobai, on 13 September 2016 - 12:49 PM, said:

except energy draw still exists

energy draw + lower capacity/dissipation + longer cooldown times/more jamming = hello kitty laser tag

youre only gonna be able to fire like one or two weapons at a time. and its going to complete defeat the point of playing an assault mech with 8+ weapons


Think of all the options you'll have. Short range and long. Instead of alpha every time it's up.

#17 FupDup

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Posted 13 September 2016 - 01:28 PM

View PostMechaBattler, on 13 September 2016 - 01:21 PM, said:

Think of all the options you'll have. Short range and long. Instead of alpha every time it's up.

The heat cap and dissipation are too low for a mech to carry weapons from more than one "range bracket."

PTS4 is more like load up an assault mech with the loadout of a medium mech and then pack an assload of SHS so that you can actually ******* fire your weapons.

#18 Ragnahawk

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Posted 13 September 2016 - 01:36 PM

Oh you can boat as much as you want, the trick is you have to break it up. If you can't do that then there is no hope for you.

#19 Mcgral18

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Posted 13 September 2016 - 01:38 PM

View PostFupDup, on 13 September 2016 - 01:28 PM, said:

The heat cap and dissipation are too low for a mech to carry weapons from more than one "range bracket."

PTS4 is more like load up an assault mech with the loadout of a medium mech and then pack an assload of SHS so that you can actually ******* fire your weapons.




Now, they removed the semi functional heatsink monitor and replaced it with .GIFs...but I think I had 38 SHS and he had 37 (armour difference)



OMG HEAT NEUTRALITY

#20 FupDup

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Posted 13 September 2016 - 01:45 PM

View PostMcgral18, on 13 September 2016 - 01:38 PM, said:




Now, they removed the semi functional heatsink monitor and replaced it with .GIFs...but I think I had 38 SHS and he had 37 (armour difference)



OMG HEAT NEUTRALITY

Paul said:

This will be highly exploited by players with knowledge of building efficient heat neutral mechs!






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