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Burst Fire Acs! Is And Clan Balance!


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#1 Andi Nagasia

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Posted 13 September 2016 - 08:12 PM

Everyone keeps saying the Problem with ED is PPFLD Ballistics,
they are ruling the PTS, so how about a solution to fix that problem?
(PPFLD= Pin Point Front Loaded Damage(or all Damage done in to spot)


well what if(please dont Burn me at the Stake) make all ACs burst fire?

=IS ACs=
AC2= 1Shell(2Damage)
AC5= 1Shell(5Damage)
AC10= 2Shell(5Damage)
AC20= 3Shell(6.6Damage)
-
UAC5= 2Shell(2.5Damage)

=Clan ACs=
AC2= 1Shell(2Damage)
AC5= 1Shell(5Damage)
AC10= 2Shell(5Damage)
AC20= 3Shell(6.6Damage)
-
UAC2= 1Shell(2Damage)
UAC5= 2Shell(2.5Damage)
UAC10= 3Shell(3.3Damage)
UAC20= 4Shell(5Damage)

with this normalize all Jam Chance to 10% for all IS-UACs and 20% for all C-UACs,
and Unjam time to Normal Cycle timeX2(AC20=8second Unjam),


with this i see damage moving abit away from PPFLD
the natural Spread will make it harder to hit with everything on one Spot,
this could slightly increase TTK, as damage spreads alittle,
as well as get things ready for larger IS UACs,

Also
Posted Image


Thoughts, Comments, Concerns,
Thanks

Edit-

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 13 September 2016 - 09:28 PM.


#2 FupDup

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Posted 13 September 2016 - 08:14 PM

If you make IS ACs into burst, you're gonna have to compensate them in other areas like velocity and reload time or else they'll just plain suck.

Keep in mind that they're both heavier and bulkier than their Clan equivalents.

They also can't double-tap outside of the IS UAC/5, meaning that 4/5 of them have lower DPS than their Clan counterparts.

#3 Wintersdark

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Posted 13 September 2016 - 08:49 PM

View PostFupDup, on 13 September 2016 - 08:14 PM, said:

If you make IS ACs into burst, you're gonna have to compensate them in other areas like velocity and reload time or else they'll just plain suck.

Keep in mind that they're both heavier and bulkier than their Clan equivalents.

They also can't double-tap outside of the IS UAC/5, meaning that 4/5 of them have lower DPS than their Clan counterparts.

Yeah, honestly I find the PPFLD nature of IS autocannons is a nice counterpoint to the Clan's being smaller, lighter, and longer ranged. If anything, the Clam versions are arguably better, if unreliable, due to the doubletap.

Going burst would demand other changes happen, and I'd fear that would make balance worse and destroy some of the differentiation we have now.

#4 Andi Nagasia

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Posted 13 September 2016 - 09:28 PM

View PostFupDup, on 13 September 2016 - 08:14 PM, said:

If you make IS ACs into burst, you're gonna have to compensate them in other areas like velocity and reload time or else they'll just plain suck.

Keep in mind that they're both heavier and bulkier than their Clan equivalents.

They also can't double-tap outside of the IS UAC/5, meaning that 4/5 of them have lower DPS than their Clan counterparts

View PostWintersdark, on 13 September 2016 - 08:49 PM, said:

Yeah, honestly I find the PPFLD nature of IS autocannons is a nice counterpoint to the Clan's being smaller, lighter, and longer ranged. If anything, the Clam versions are arguably better, if unreliable, due to the doubletap.

Going burst would demand other changes happen, and I'd fear that would make balance worse and destroy some of the differentiation we have now.

well when it comes to balance,
ive given all Normal ACs smaller Bursts,
Also balance can be achieved with,
1) changing Cooldowns,
2) changing Ammo Counts,
3) less jam Chance with IS UACs,

#5 slide

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Posted 13 September 2016 - 09:45 PM

Burst AC's were asked for, for a long time before the Clans came along, PGI used it as a balancing mechanism for clan AC's

I like your idea as it differentiates regular AC's from the LBX version more and indirectly gives LBX more utility as a 1 shot v dps type of weapon. I would even normalise the shell sizes to 5 across the board (except AC2 obviously) and maybe differentiate between IS/Clan/UAC by rate of fire. ie AC20 4 shells over 1 second, CAC20 4 shells over .8 seconds

My only concern would be that it widens the gulf between AC's and PPC/Guass even more. PPC can be solved somewhat by the splash mechanic that that the CERPPC has, but how do you explain gauss. It would likely make the GR, the go to ballistic weapon even more than it is now.

#6 Wintersdark

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Posted 14 September 2016 - 12:45 AM

View PostAndi Nagasia, on 13 September 2016 - 09:28 PM, said:

well when it comes to balance,
ive given all Normal ACs smaller Bursts,
Also balance can be achieved with,
1) changing Cooldowns,
2) changing Ammo Counts,
3) less jam Chance with IS UACs,

But my point isn't really about balance.

It's about differentiation.

We're all better off if Clan tech and IS tech are different. Balanced, of course - at least overall. But different.

Just having different stats but the same weapon action is so boring.

I love how Clan UAC's are spready machineguns, and IS AC's are these massive single-shell cannons. Variety is the spice of life!

#7 kapusta11

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Posted 14 September 2016 - 01:08 AM

No thanks, I prefer what little gameplay diversity this game can still offer instead of none of it.

#8 Andi Nagasia

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Posted 16 September 2016 - 03:57 PM

View PostWintersdark, on 14 September 2016 - 12:45 AM, said:

But my point isn't really about balance.

It's about differentiation.

We're all better off if Clan tech and IS tech are different. Balanced, of course - at least overall. But different.

Just having different stats but the same weapon action is so boring.

I love how Clan UAC's are spready machineguns, and IS AC's are these massive single-shell cannons. Variety is the spice of life!

View Postkapusta11, on 14 September 2016 - 01:08 AM, said:

No thanks, I prefer what little gameplay diversity this game can still offer instead of none of it.

Fair Enough, you guys know i have some Crazy ideas,
dont be afraid to say how you feel about it, i can take it, Posted Image
Edit-

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 16 September 2016 - 03:58 PM.


#9 Wintersdark

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Posted 16 September 2016 - 04:05 PM

View PostAndi Nagasia, on 16 September 2016 - 03:57 PM, said:

Fair Enough, you guys know i have some Crazy ideas,
dont be afraid to say how you feel about it, i can take it, Posted Image
Edit-

And you know I say it with respect :)

#10 Gentleman Reaper

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Posted 17 September 2016 - 07:17 PM

View PostWintersdark, on 14 September 2016 - 12:45 AM, said:

But my point isn't really about balance.

It's about differentiation.

We're all better off if Clan tech and IS tech are different. Balanced, of course - at least overall. But different.

Just having different stats but the same weapon action is so boring.

I love how Clan UAC's are spready machineguns, and IS AC's are these massive single-shell cannons. Variety is the spice of life!


Absolutely agree, making IS vs Clan weapons different from each other helps to mask the reduced effectiveness. I have my own ideas for applying the same logic to different weapon types:

PPCs: Clan ERPPC gets higher damage (12 or 13), with a long cooldown, IS PPC gets a fast cooldown (4.5 seconds) and less heat (8 or 9), IS ERPPC gets current values except for 1800 velocity. So the PPC excels at DPS, ERPPC excels at long range combat, c-ERPPC excels at low face-time.

SRMs: Clan SRMs get the same stats, but get staggered fire like with the LRMs, so it forces longer face-time as a trade-off for being half-weight.

#11 Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky

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Posted 17 September 2016 - 07:26 PM



#12 Y E O N N E

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Posted 17 September 2016 - 09:40 PM

Here's a hot-take for giggles:

Inner Sphere

AC/2
Fires a 3-round burst dealing 2 damage per round with an interval of 0.10 seconds per round and a cool-down of 1.90 seconds. Heat is 1 per shell. So you deal 6 damage, receive 3 heat, and your DPS is 2.86.

AC/5
Fires a 2-round burst dealing 5 damage per round with an interval of 0.20 seconds per round and a cool-down of 2.80 seconds. Heat is 2 per shell. You deal 10 damage, receive 4 heat, and your DPS is 3.33.

AC/10
Fires a 2-round burst dealing 10 damage per round with an interval of 0.33 seconds per round and a cool-down of 4.67 seconds. Heat is 3 per shell. You deal 20 damage, receive 6 heat, and your DPS is 4.

AC/20
Fires a 2-round burst dealing 20 damage per shell with an interval of 0.50 seconds per round and a cool-down of 7.5 seconds. Heat is 7 per shell. You deal 40 damage, receive 14 heat, and your DPS is 5. Don't miss.



Clan

AC/2
Fires a single round dealing 2 damage and a cool-down of 0.7 seconds. Heat is 1 per shell. So you deal 2 damage, receive 1 heat, and your DPS is 2.86.

AC/5
Fires a 2-round burst dealing 2.5 damage per round with an interval of 0.10 seconds per round and a cool-down of 1.40 seconds. Heat is 1 per shell. You deal 5 damage, receive 2 heat, and your DPS is 3.33.

AC/10
Fires a 3-round burst dealing 3.33 damage per round with an interval of 0.10 seconds per round and a cool-down of 2.3 seconds. Heat is 1 per shell. You deal 10 damage, receive 3 heat, and your DPS is 4.

AC/20
Fires a 2-round burst dealing 10 damage per shell with an interval of 0.25 seconds per round and a cool-down of 3.75 seconds. Heat is 3.5 per shell. You deal 20 damage, receive 7 heat, and your DPS is 5.

Edited by Yeonne Greene, 17 September 2016 - 09:51 PM.


#13 l33tworks

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Posted 18 September 2016 - 02:47 AM

View Postkapusta11, on 14 September 2016 - 01:08 AM, said:

No thanks, I prefer what little gameplay diversity this game can still offer instead of none of it.


Exactly. keep it different for more options.

Edited by l33tworks, 18 September 2016 - 02:47 AM.


#14 Koniving

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Posted 18 September 2016 - 03:19 AM

Reserving this spot, but so you know I prefer burst and automatic ACs.

Here's one for diversity: AC goes burst, UAC goes auto fire.

Will give real suggestions later today after work.

#15 MrVei

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Posted 18 September 2016 - 11:46 AM

just make all acs fire a 4 round burst and be done with it. and then give us a 1 shot vr and call it a rifle or a different brand of ac. something. single shot acs are not what a true ac should be.





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