43 replies to this topic

[BLOOD WOLF]

Gonna leave this here, and every PTS needs one.

If the poll needs improvement to get a wider scope then it can change. Trying to gauge ED's favorbility.

I mean't to say editions, not renditions. small mistake

Edited by BLOOD WOLF, 19 September 2016 - 06:15 PM.

[FupDup]

This poll has one positive option and two neutral ones. It needs a negative one like "No, it worsens from older models."

[BLOOD WOLF]

FupDup, on 14 September 2016 - 10:14 PM, said:

This poll has one positive option and two neutral ones. It needs a negative one like "No, it worsens from older models."

It' has a negative. 3rd option. I didn't wan't to bombard with information. It's up to the player to explain in greater detail.

Edited by BLOOD WOLF, 14 September 2016 - 10:37 PM.

[FupDup]

BLOOD WOLF, on 14 September 2016 - 10:34 PM, said:

It' has a negative. 3rd option. I didn't wan't to bombard with information. It's up to the player to explain in greater detail.

The third option can be easily interpreted as neutral. "Does not improve" does not mean that it was made worse. It just means that the quality level remained the same. I wanted to vote that the quality was reduced.

Edited by FupDup, 15 September 2016 - 10:55 AM.

[Deathlike]

Bad poll is bad.

I stopped doing polls because of this (I wasn't able to make enough answers, biased or not, to sufficiently get a proper answer).

Getting called out for it is normal.

[Kuaron]

So now people who like Gauss charging and dislike the new heatsinks vote for option 2, as well as the people who see both the opposite way. ^^

But I don't see this as a problem, because people who hate PGI no matter what vote for option 3, so it's kind of balanced.

[BLOOD WOLF]

FupDup, on 15 September 2016 - 10:52 AM, said:

The third option can be easily interpreted as neutral. "Does not improve" does not mean that it was made worse. It just means that the quality level remained the same. I wanted to vote that the quality was reduced.

the third option is sufficient. If someone says it does not improve it's a given that it failed to solve the problem that the systems are trying to correct.

Remember ED is focused on solving boating as GH was. That is all.

Edited by BLOOD WOLF, 15 September 2016 - 01:53 PM.

[BLOOD WOLF]

Kuaron, on 15 September 2016 - 12:02 PM, said:

So now people who like Gauss charging and dislike the new heatsinks vote for option 2, as well as the people who see both the opposite way. ^^

But I don't see this as a problem, because people who hate PGI no matter what vote for option 3, so it's kind of balanced.

The polls are kinda irrelevant in the sense that the System stands on its merit rather than likability. Also this poll needs at least 200+votes to be a reference with the others.

[FupDup]

BLOOD WOLF, on 15 September 2016 - 01:52 PM, said:

the third option is sufficient. If someone says it does not improve it's a given that it failed to solve the problem that the systems are trying to correct.

Remember ED is focused on solving boating as GH was. That is all.

I'm starting to get the impression that you're trying to prevent explicitly negative poll responses.

Again, right now the options are either "it's good" or "it's good and bad or the same." It's only fair to be able to say "it's bad" outright.

Also, I'm operating on the assumption that the poll is evaluating opinions about the entire PTS #4 session, not just the Energy Draw feature (there's much more to the PTS than ED).

[BLOOD WOLF]

FupDup, on 15 September 2016 - 02:06 PM, said:

I'm starting to get the impression that you're trying to prevent explicitly negative poll responses.

Again, right now the options are either "it's good" or "it's good and bad or the same." It's only fair to be able to say "it's bad" outright.

Also, I'm operating on the assumption that the poll is evaluating opinions about the entire PTS #4 session, not just the Energy Draw feature (there's much more to the PTS than ED).

yea, the entire PTS #4, the main focus of the PTS has been ED.

I am not trying to prevent anything. the 3rd option implies that you believe the game was better either before GH, or GH,or ED 1-3 had things that were better. I think people can explain what they mean.

option 1. You don't see anything wrong with the improvements and you think the changes where neccisary.

options 2. While you think some things were improved you disliked such options as bringing back the G charge. again it's up to you to clarify.

option 3. You thought that the Heat penalty was never need. Or you thought that the original values of certain other PTS had done some aspects better. Or GH had it right. Again It's up to you to clarify what you mean. It's a posting thread as well as a voting thread. make good use of it.

Edited by BLOOD WOLF, 15 September 2016 - 02:22 PM.

[ScarecrowES]

I wish I could vote "It's way better now because even the die-hards have abandoned it and we can finally put this one in the bad idea grave yard where it belongs."

[FupDup]

BLOOD WOLF, on 15 September 2016 - 02:15 PM, said:

yea, the entire PTS #4, the main focus of the PTS has been ED.

I am not trying to prevent anything. the 3rd option implies that you believe the game was better either before GH, or GH,or ED 1-3 had things that were better. I think people can explain what they mean.
...
option 3. You thought that the Heat penalty was never need. Or you thought that the original values of certain other PTS had done some aspects better. Or GH had it right. Again It's up to you to clarify what you mean. It's a posting thread as well as a voting thread. make good use of it.

I shouldn't have to explain the logic behind which option I voted for. The voting option should speak for itself.

Edited by FupDup, 15 September 2016 - 03:09 PM.

[BLOOD WOLF]

FupDup, on 15 September 2016 - 03:08 PM, said:

I shouldn't have to explain the logic behind which option I voted for. The voting option should speak for itself.

then I shouldn't have to change it if you don't have to explain.

The Topic states does The pts4 improve upon older models.

You're more then welcome to leave an explanation of what you think if you don't wan't to select an option.

The third option is a negative response. It means that you either like GH or one of the previous ED systems. In the context of trying to solve the problem with TTK and alpha striking or boating, or firing multiple weapons at once such as an AC20 with 5 meds or something like that.

Edited by BLOOD WOLF, 15 September 2016 - 03:59 PM.

[Deathlike]

Answers to a poll is a lot more complex than the options listed.

That is why poll bias exists when they come up.

Just because you don't like a certain thing doesn't mean its bad, but the poll is broad in scope, and the reasoning behind any opinion can be vast. You simply cannot summarily say "it's good" or "it's bad" with POLL ANSWERS. There's not enough POLL ANSWERS to explain away things w/o follow up poll questions.

I don't even want to use political examples, but there's a certain portion of people that would have voted for Bernie Sanders that would vote for Trump... only because it's not Hilary. If asked why... well, that's a whole can of worms to be opened (some of them empty).

In any case, bad poll is bad.

[BLOOD WOLF]

polls can be simple, and a complex poll is not a better poll.

The poll simply asks if the current version improves upon previous versions.

A poll by itself means nothing but in conjunction with the other polls we can at least have some statistical data.

Edited by BLOOD WOLF, 15 September 2016 - 04:03 PM.

[ScarecrowES]

ED PTS4

o) Better system.
o) The BEST system.













o) Just Meh.

Edited by ScarecrowES, 15 September 2016 - 04:13 PM.

[Deathlike]

BLOOD WOLF, on 15 September 2016 - 04:03 PM, said:

polls can be simple, and a complex poll is not a better poll.

Polls can be biased, and a simple poll is not a useful or better poll.

Quote

The poll simply asks if the current version improves upon previous versions.

The previous versions were just as bad. This one is arguably worse (at least for me). This is obviously not useful enough a poll.

Quote

A poll by itself means nothing but in conjunction with the other polls we can at least have some statistical data.

A poll by itself means nothing when you don't understand WHY other things are/aren't the way they are. The statistical data isn't very useful nor productive because it has little to no context.

[ScarecrowES]

Deathlike, on 15 September 2016 - 04:13 PM, said:

A poll by itself means nothing when you don't understand WHY other things are/aren't the way they are. The statistical data isn't very useful nor productive because it has little to no context.

In fairness, I created a pretty extensive poll that provided LOTS of context. The questions had significant depth, degrees of inclination, featured complimentary concepts to discern cross-preferences, contradictory concepts to weed out dishonest votes, and most everything else a good "scientific" poll should have.

When all of those things went AGAINST ED, supporters said none of the context mattered because middling tepid favorability outweighed significant negative criticism. *shrug*

Edited by ScarecrowES, 15 September 2016 - 04:20 PM.

[Deathlike]

ScarecrowES, on 15 September 2016 - 04:20 PM, said:

In fairness, I created a pretty extensive poll that provided LOTS of context. The questions had significant depth, degrees of inclination, featured complimentary concepts to discern cross-preferences, contradictory concepts to weed out dishonest votes, and most everything else a good "scientific" poll should have.

When all of those things went AGAINST ED, supporters said none of the context mattered because middling tepid favorability outweighed significant negative criticism. *shrug*

To be fair, I think your poll was mostly meh, and people not understanding that despite having something above 50% (like sub 60%), it's not an overwhelming majority.

The irony is that this is business (game dev company), not an election... and screwing up is a dealbreaker for your financial feature. Screwing up an election though...

[ScarecrowES]

Deathlike, on 15 September 2016 - 04:25 PM, said:

To be fair, I think your poll was mostly meh, and people not understanding that despite having something above 50% (like sub 60%), it's not an overwhelming majority.

The irony is that this is business (game dev company), not an election... and screwing up is a dealbreaker for your financial feature. Screwing up an election though...

The poll did show that more players thought ED would negatively impact the game than not, and that PGI would likely see negative impact on their financials because of it. As I said at the time, from a business perspective, putting ED on the live servers would likely be a financial disaster for them.