65 replies to this topic

[Sader325]

Now just balance IS and Clan weapons around both not having quirks.

Suddenly quirks won't be ****** necessary anymore.

[davoodoo]

If it was just weapons

But theres also superior dhs, superior xl, omnimechs(at least for now).
How to balance that without quirks??

[vocifer]

I think, Sader means weapon quirks only. I'd agree with this.

Having structure buffs to compensate inferior XL/ES/FF is a good thing to keep.
I don't mind agility buffs for mechs with shape disadvantages also.

CDHS are a part of a weapon balance and may be left superior if Clan weapons are less heat efficient i general.

Edited by vocifer, 17 September 2016 - 04:54 AM.

[davoodoo]

vocifer, on 17 September 2016 - 04:52 AM, said:

I think, Sader means weapon quirks only. I'd agree with this.
Having structure buffs to compensate inferior XL/ES/FF is a good thing to keep.
DHS are a part of a weapon balance and may be left superior if Clan weapons are less heat efficient i general.

That xl and smaller dhs allows you to mount more weapons.

[vocifer]

davoodoo, on 17 September 2016 - 04:53 AM, said:

That xl and smaller dhs allows you to mount more weapons.

So balance them out! Why quirks?

[xe N on]

Sader325, on 17 September 2016 - 12:04 AM, said:

Now just balance IS and Clan weapons around both not having quirks.

Suddenly quirks won't be ****** necessary anymore.

It's not only clan vs IS. It is Clan vs Clan and IS vs IS

Just compare a Summoner to a Ebon Jag. Or a Kit Fox to a Arctic Cheetah.

Edited by xe N on, 17 September 2016 - 05:34 AM.

[vocifer]

xe N on, on 17 September 2016 - 05:32 AM, said:

Just compare a Summoner to a Ebon Jag. Or a Kit Fox to a Arctic Cheetah.

It's not a problem of mechs, which were forced to use unoptimal builds. It's a problem of different volumes and their correlation with other stats. Why should I always put the biggest XL in my light? Shouldn't there be any variety of choice involved?

Lights: Agility > Damage >> Hitpoints
Mediums: Agility = Damage > Hitpoints
Heavies: Agility < Damage = Hitpoints
Assaults: Agility << Damage < Hitpoints

If we figure how to equalize all of these ^^ stats, or just make them closer to equal, then there won't be a problem with either Summoner or Kit Fox.

[Monkey Lover]

It will help that's for sure, top tier IS mechs should not have quirks because they should be balance with clans. Problem is clans would have to be nerfed like crazy and last time a small clan nerf happened they started tweeting Russ for refunds lol

On a side note clan weapons would have to be much worse than IS weapons to make up for being lighter,range, using less slots and OP clan XL engine.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 17 September 2016 - 07:15 AM.

[davoodoo]

vocifer, on 17 September 2016 - 05:11 AM, said:

So balance them out! Why quirks?

How to balance them?? make clan weaponry worse than is??

[GreenHell]

Remove weapon quirks for sure. 100% take them out. No more pigeon-holing mechs into certain builds just because they're over-quirked for it.

A touch of structure here and there to make up for Pearl XL's is fine. Agility I could stand to lose honestly. Yeah, my ON1-VA twists like a medium... but it's not a medium so...

Edited by GreenHell, 17 September 2016 - 09:16 AM.

[Mcgral18]

That would involve them changing things, they quite simply don't want to change
isXL and weapon imbalances (lighter, and as a result, superior Clam versions with otherwise the same stats) being two factors

[Andi Nagasia]

Monkey Lover, on 17 September 2016 - 07:07 AM, said:

It will help that's for sure, top tier IS mechs should not have quirks because they should be balance with clans. Problem is clans would have to be nerfed like crazy and last time a small clan nerf happened they started tweeting Russ for refunds lol

On a side note clan weapons would have to be much worse than IS weapons to make up for being lighter,range, using less slots and OP clan XL engine.

Had an idea to help with the IS to Clan, Crit to Tonnage deficiencies,
(Is / Clan, Tonnage / Crit, Balance Concept!)=0=Please Vote=0=

[GreenHell]

Or, they could just add in the Pearl "Light Fusion Engine". That could certainly turn things around a bit.

[Andi Nagasia]

GreenHell, on 17 September 2016 - 09:16 AM, said:

Or, they could just add in the Pearl "Light Fusion Engine". That could certainly turn things around a bit.

but how do you make STD engines useful with LFE existing? double their Internal HSs? could that do it?

Edit-
also would love LFE(IS), as well As XXLs(IS/Clan)

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 17 September 2016 - 09:28 AM.

[GreenHell]

You don't. You just give people options. Instead of trying to forcefully make STD engines useful, just add the LFE and let things take their course.

Will STD's go away over time? Probably, sans for a few double/quadruple LBx10 builds and x4 ASRM6 torso builds. But that's what the LFE was for anyways, to give Pearls a way to emulate Clam XL durability.

Besides, if you don't have the slots, then you're gonna have to compromise anyways.
After all, it is 4 slots larger than the STD. Think of all the perfectly packed builds that will need to be completely rebuilt. lol

[Mcgral18]

GreenHell, on 17 September 2016 - 09:28 AM, said:

You don't. You just give people options. Instead of trying to forcefully make STD engines useful, just add the LFE and let things take their course.

**** that


Make the isXL and STD viable in their own right

[davoodoo]

Andi Nagasia, on 17 September 2016 - 09:23 AM, said:

but how do you make STD engines useful with LFE existing? double their Internal HSs? could that do it?

Edit-
also would love LFE(IS), as well As XXLs(IS/Clan)

Its not like anyone uses clan std engines or clan shs or is shs for that matter...

Newer technology makes previous obsolete.

As for light fusion engine, wouldnt fix the problem, as its still heavier than xl.

[Andi Nagasia]

davoodoo, on 17 September 2016 - 09:42 AM, said:

Its not like anyone uses clan std engines or clan shs or is shs for that matter...

Newer technology makes previous obsolete.

As for light fusion engine, wouldnt fix the problem, as its still heavier than xl.

True but its a replacement for the IS STD engine, as it saves more Tonnage, and helps some,
also the XXL engine is a replacement for the IS XL just as the Clan XL replaces the Clan STD,

[Mcgral18]

davoodoo, on 17 September 2016 - 09:42 AM, said:

Its not like anyone uses clan std engines or clan shs or is shs for that matter...

Which is a problem that should be fixed, not pushed under the rug


Legacy Tech™ is a bad feature, and should be fixed.
Give Structure quirks to STD engines, to significant degrees
Significant enough for a Clam Battlemech to choose an STD over a cXL (which is outright superior in every sense, right now, to both STDs and isXLs, as well as the future LFE)

Edited by Mcgral18, 17 September 2016 - 02:11 PM.

[Sader325]

Mcgral18, on 17 September 2016 - 09:50 AM, said:

Which is a problem that should be fixed, not pushed under the rug


Legacy Tech™ is a bad feature, and should be fix.
Give Structure quirks to STD engines, to significant degrees
Significant enough for a Clam Battlemech to choose an STD over a cXL (which is outright superior in every sense, right now, to both STDs and isXLs)

Opposite should be done. IS XL's should come with X % structure quirks to the torso to aid survival. IS Standard stays alive when it loses a side, why should it get more structure to aid that?