220 replies to this topic

[Wil McCullough]

MrMadguy, on 13 October 2016 - 10:15 PM, said:

I don't know, I think I've quited this game again. Yesterday's last match made me cross the line. It was match on Frozen City. Initially nothing was special about this match. But then... There was a Light there. Initially I thought, that is was Kit Fox. But all of a sudden Smurfy tells me, that neither Kit Fox, nor Added support JJs. Strange thing. What happened it this match? This match ended for me as duel Assault+Heavy vs this Light. And all, Light pilot was doing - was spamming JJs and openly pew-pewing. And, PGI refuse to admit it, but, I guess, MWO really has some gamebreaking hitreg messing JJ bug. Cuz even after losing one leg and having no armor on second leg this Light 'Mech was able to kill other Heavy 'Mech, then drill my almost fresh armor and kill me either. He simply ate several point blank SRM Alphas + several 4xLL+ 2ML Alphas. Yeah, our team lost. But even with one leg ripped he survived this match (he died, but was actually accidentally TKed by his teammate, when he was killing our last 'Mech). When I looked at scoreboard - I saw, that he managed to get 4 kills and almost 600dmg.

4 kills and almost 600 dmg just for spamming JJs and pew-pewing? Go to hell, PGI, go to hell. I won't play this game, till this nonsense won't be fixed.

eregion's post gave me the idea to check the leaderboards. from what it tells me when i search for you, it seems you only play assaults, for every 1 kill you get, you die 3 times and average 139 match score per game.

i'm not trying to be mean but it looks like even with assault mech firepower, you struggle to kill anything. not just light mechs. match scores that low also mean you're either not shooting much, or shooting and not hitting all the time.

and this is coming from a terribad t5 player who knows where he stands.

its hard to admit, but sometimes the real problem is located between the keyboard and the chair.

[TWIAFU]

sfmain, on 12 October 2016 - 04:40 PM, said:

im a tier 1 playa i just call em like i see em and if anyone else is having trouble one of the best defenses is backing up against a wall

Riiiiiight.

[MrMadguy]

Wil McCullough, on 14 October 2016 - 03:56 AM, said:

eregion's post gave me the idea to check the leaderboards. from what it tells me when i search for you, it seems you only play assaults, for every 1 kill you get, you die 3 times and average 139 match score per game.

i'm not trying to be mean but it looks like even with assault mech firepower, you struggle to kill anything. not just light mechs. match scores that low also mean you're either not shooting much, or shooting and not hitting all the time.

and this is coming from a terribad t5 player who knows where he stands.

its hard to admit, but sometimes the real problem is located between the keyboard and the chair.

I'm not at home now, so I can't repost this stuff, but I've already posted my screenshots in some other thread.

1) First of all, my old stats (not best ones, cuz this game had already started to have problems with MM, when stats were archived):


Old Assault Stats:


2) My matches in different 'Mechs (Heavies and Assaults), where I was close to 1K dmg + decent amount of kills. In fact in the past I was chasing 1K mark in almost every match. My dream was - to have 1K dmg match in my Firebrand. But AC/2 ammo limit was always preventing me from doing it - I had done it in CTF much easier (it was IM, as I remember), then in Atlas-D.
3) My positions in leaderboards while different events - I was in top 50.

So. What you see in my leaderboard stats now - is the result of:
1) Poor matchmaking - I either don't belong to Tier 3 or there simply no true Tier 3 players in this game any more, lol
2) Game imbalance - everybody and their grannies play OP Meta builds now and PGI doesn't even bother about balancing them any more

As I've already said in some old threads: there is no bad players in game MM-based game - only bad MM.

Edited by MrMadguy, 14 October 2016 - 04:30 AM.

[Pariah Devalis]

MrMadguy, on 14 October 2016 - 04:24 AM, said:

snip

You have almost 80 matches registered on S4 alone, which is enough to get a pretty good cross section of your skillset. In that time, your average match score across all weights is only 139. Your KDR is 0.32, meaning you die way more often than you kill. Your win-loss is 0.84, which is the only place I'd really credit poor matchmaking in.

A good pilot will give at least as good as he gets. You are not even managing that. Over time, in the big picture, even a bad match maker averages out. It will fail you just as often as it will fail your opponents.

If you really want to improve, I suggest focusing on improving yourself instead of excusing yourself. View it as an opportunity to get better, as opposed to a dagger hanging over your head. However, there are predators and there are prey. Right now, all signs point to you being prey.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 14 October 2016 - 04:41 AM.

[Eregion]

Pariah Devalis, on 14 October 2016 - 04:29 AM, said:

You have almost 80 matches registered on S4 alone, which is enough to get a pretty good cross section of your skillset. In that time, your average match score across all weights is only 139. Your KDR is 0.32, meaning you die way more often than you kill. Your win-loss is 0.84, which is the only place I'd really credit poor matchmaking in.

A good pilot will give at least as good as he gets. You are not even managing that. Over time, in the big picture, even a bad match maker averages out. It will fail you just as often as it will fail your opponents.

If you really want to improve, I suggest focusing on improving yourself instead excusing yourself. View it as an opportunity to get better, as opposed to a dagger hanging over your head. However, there are predators and there are prey. Right now, all signs point to you being prey.

Usually if you stop thinking of yourself as a victim, at least you start to see what's wrong. It's not a cure to bad play, but it's a start.

Edited by Eregion, 14 October 2016 - 04:38 AM.

[Wil McCullough]

MrMadguy, on 14 October 2016 - 04:24 AM, said:

snip

As I've already said in some old threads: there is no bad players in game MM-based game - only bad MM.

your w/l rate is close to 1. seems like MM is working fine (at least for you).

the only issue i see here is that your individual performance in season 4 is bad. in other words, it's a player issue whether you like it or not.

Edited by Wil McCullough, 14 October 2016 - 04:42 AM.

[MrMadguy]

Pariah Devalis, on 14 October 2016 - 04:29 AM, said:

You have almost 80 matches registered on S4 alone, which is enough to get a pretty good cross section of your skillset. In that time, your average match score across all weights is only 139. Your KDR is 0.32, meaning you die way more often than you kill. Your win-loss is 0.84, which is the only place I'd really credit poor matchmaking in.

A good pilot will give at least as good as he gets. You are not even managing that. Over time, in the big picture, even a bad match maker averages out. It will fail you just as often as it will fail your opponents.

If you really want to improve, I suggest focusing on improving yourself instead excusing yourself. View it as an opportunity to get better, as opposed to a dagger hanging over your head.

This is old topic, I explained 100500 times already. I really don't want to do it again, cuz if you don't understand, how MM works - then it will be hard for you to understand, why you're wrong. Read thread, linked in my sig for reference.

Short version: it's MM, that is supposed to match me with/against players with equal level of skill.

As 1 player of 12 can't be difference between win and loss (I have profs, where 2-3 players were AFK, but team won match anyway, lol):
1) W/L <> 1 means matchmaker constantly fails to balance 2 teams.
2) W/L = 1, but K/D <> 1 and AvgMS <> 200 - matchmaker can balance teams, but fails to find players with skill, equal to yours - your skill is either lower, than team's average, or higher.

I.e. the fact, that my K/D < 1 and AvgMS < 200 means only one thing - MM uses me for padding Tier 1 teams. I'm punching bag for them and they simply carried me to such high rating, where I don't belong to.

Wil McCullough, on 14 October 2016 - 04:42 AM, said:

your w/l rate is about 1:1. seems like MM is working perfectly (at least for you).

the only issue i see here is that your individual performance in season 4 is bad. in other words, it's a player issue whether you like it or not.

Also. AvgMS - is part of rating calculation algorithm. Simply because the higher rating is - the higher skill level of enemies is - the harder for you to achieve the same K/D and MS. Stabilization level - is around 200MS. If my MS < 200, then my rating is too high for my skill level. It should drop. But it doesn't, as PGI's matchmaker is completely broken.

Actually... It drops, but way too slowly. In some other thread I've posted history of my rating - I lose around 10% per month, while in my LRM60 boat I can gain 50% within just 1-2 hours. Obvious imbalance and bias towards increasing.

Edited by MrMadguy, 14 October 2016 - 04:53 AM.

[Pariah Devalis]

Eregion, on 14 October 2016 - 04:37 AM, said:

Usually if you stop thinking of yourself as a victim, at least you start to see what's wrong. It's not a cure to bad play, but it's a start.

Exactly. One of the reasons I started recording my games was specifically so I could easily see where I would goof up (and when I did something right), so I could keep an eye open for it in the future. None of us are flawless, but to improve we must identify our flaws and work to reduce them.

[Wil McCullough]

MrMadguy, on 14 October 2016 - 04:42 AM, said:

snip

if mm is borked, it's just as borked for everyone else. in other words, it's still not an excuse. mm is not singling you out as a victim.

here's the thing:

there are potatoes in t1. just like there are potatoes in t3, just like there are potatoes in t5. simply because pilot rating is basically an xp bar. you can't pin your sub-par individual performance and inability to kill a light mech on a mm issue.

it's a reaaaaaally, reaaaaaaaally long stretch. everything here points towards the conclusion that you're not pulling your weight in-game. and pointing the finger at the mm algorithm is only going to ensure that that pattern continues.

[MrMadguy]

Pariah Devalis, on 14 October 2016 - 04:42 AM, said:

Exactly. One of the reasons I started recording my games was specifically so I could easily see where I would goof up (and when I did something right), so I could keep an eye open for it in the future. None of us are flawless, but to improve we must identify our flaws and work to reduce them.

I'm at my skill cap, sorry. I play this game since Open Beta - long enough to reach it. There is simply no room for improvement. If PGI and you expect me to constantly improve - then you're fools. Not all people, who play football, can play at Messi's and Ronaldo's levels. Most stop at yard football. Forcing them to play against professional players in order to force them to "improve" - is the most stupidest thing, I've ever seen. You simply can't improve, when you play against players, who simply smash you. You should step up on the next step of ladder ONLY WHEN YOU'RE READY TO DO IT.

Wil McCullough, on 14 October 2016 - 04:59 AM, said:

if mm is borked, it's just as borked for everyone else. in other words, it's still not an excuse. mm is not singling you out as a victim.

here's the thing:

there are potatoes in t1. just like there are potatoes in t3, just like there are potatoes in t5. simply because pilot rating is basically an xp bar. you can't pin your sub-par individual performance and inability to kill a light mech on a mm issue.

it's a reaaaaaally, reaaaaaaaally long stretch. everything here points towards the conclusion that you're not pulling your weight in-game. and pointing the finger at the mm algorithm is only going to ensure that that pattern continues.

Lol. You kwow... You will be surprised, but... MM is completely random for a long time already... And whether players are satisfied by it or not depends on one thing only - whether your skill level higher than some current average or lower. So... Where all those low skill players are, if MM is equally broken for everybody? It will be shock for you, but...they all quited this game long time ago. I'm one of the last ones, who still tries to play this game, while it completely unplayable for me.

Edited by MrMadguy, 14 October 2016 - 05:07 AM.

[Eregion]

MrMadguy, on 14 October 2016 - 04:42 AM, said:

[MM fault]

I see what you mean. But or you play ONLY in hours where the population is so low that you always get matched-up with T1 (that, by the way, means nothing on the skill level), or you will play most of the time with tiers about yours. On the long run you should have, if it's only (like you say) a MM fault, a W/Lr of about 1 AND a K/Dr of about 1.

If you have less than that, I hardly see a MM fault. There are a lot of players on these boards that would pay to lower their tier, just to don't "carry harder" every match. But that would be an excuse to just don't "git gud".

I'm not a T0 player, but what I do is try to learn from my mistakes, and I really like when the MM puts me against the odds, because that's when I see where I can learn... and, in the end, it's the only reason why I keep playing.
This game has no other way of keeping players interested, besides the usual 'Mech Pack of your favorite robot... I have to build the reasons by myself.

Try to take those game as a challenge and, if you lose, try to understand what you could have done better.

EDIT: I see you think you reached your limit as a player. Nothing to say, then. Sorry.

EDIT 2: with the Match Scores and W/Lr you had in the past 3 seasons, you should lower your Tier at a steady rate, so don't worry.

Edited by Eregion, 14 October 2016 - 05:07 AM.

[MrMadguy]

Eregion, on 14 October 2016 - 05:00 AM, said:

EDIT 2: with the Match Scores and W/Lr you had in the past 3 seasons, you should lower your Tier at a steady rate, so don't worry.

Don't worry? Lol. This crap have been happening with me for weeks, months and years since release of 3/3/3/3 and Clans - PSR simply refuses to drop. Simply because it's BROKEN.

[Wil McCullough]

MrMadguy, on 14 October 2016 - 04:59 AM, said:

Lol. You kwow... You will be surprised, but... MM is completely random for a long time already... And whether players are satisfied by it or not depends on one thing only - whether your skill level higher than some current average or lower. So... Where all those low skill players are, if MM is equally broken for everybody? It will be shock for you, but...they all quited this game long time ago. I'm one of the last ones, who still tries to play this game, while it completely unplayable for me.

i'll play with you. =3

[Single Mom]

MrMadguy, on 14 October 2016 - 04:59 AM, said:

I'm at my skill cap, sorry. I play this game since Open Beta - long enough to reach it. There is simply no room for improvement. If PGI and you expect me to constantly improve - then you're fools. Not all people, who play football, can play at Messi's and Ronaldo's levels. Most stop at yard football. Forcing them to play against professional players in order to force them to "improve" - is the most stupidest thing, I've ever seen. You simply can't improve, when you play against players, who simply smash you. You should step up on the next step of ladder ONLY WHEN YOU'RE READY TO DO IT.



Lol. You kwow... You will be surprised, but... MM is completely random for a long time already... And whether players are satisfied by it or not depends on one thing only - whether your skill level higher than some current average or lower. So... Where all those low skill players are, if MM is equally broken for everybody? It will be shock for you, but...they all quited this game long time ago. I'm one of the last ones, who still tries to play this game, while it completely unplayable for me.

To me this translates to "Don't expect me to get better, I just want to win more". Unfortunately the PSR system is positive biased, this should be apparent within the first dozen games played. The system is set up such that there is a higher probability of you moving up in PSR than dropping PSR when all possible match outcomes are considered. That is to say if a poorly skilled player grinds enough games, eventually will hit tier1. The time till that eventuality is what varies based on personal skill.

It's not a perfect MMR system, I don't even think a game that struggles with player count need to resort to something like this. That being said, I don't think its any surprise that the forum folks don't have much sympathy for the "dont tell me to get better, I want to win more" attitude.

[mogs01gt]

sfmain, on 12 October 2016 - 04:03 PM, said:

locusts have no incentive to stop harassing a mech there need to be at least a leg nerf.
for the moment ill just tab out if they start bothering me.

They are very annoying. Why should I waste this much time killing a mech that wont be worth any cbills when the match is over. For the 2 or 3 minutes it takes to hit these lil *******, I could be dumping damage into a heavy or an assault. Lights arent much of a problem unless my FPS drops into the 35-45 or my ping sucks.

adamts01, on 12 October 2016 - 04:34 PM, said:

This is part of the problem with balance in this game. At lower tiers, lights and LRMs are OP. At higher tiers, it's the opposite. PGI tries to meet in the middle for balance, but that ruins the game. You need to balance from the top down, assume equally skilled and competent players. So life sucks for a tier 5 assault going against a tier 3 Locust, I feel for the guy, but there's not really much that can be done about it. The Locust has long been a joke mech at the competitive level, and is becoming more so with every patch as scrubs keep screaming "nerf".

If you balanced from the top down, that would just make LRMs and lights even better at lower levels. F2P games should always be balanced by low to mid tiers. That creates a sustainable game. Top players will always find a way to force the meta.

Example:
Xin Zhao in League. He stomps low levels and always has. Mid to upper tier, he sucks. If he was balanced more and was better in upper tier battles, he would **** even more new players.

Its all about game mechanics and light mechs in MWO breaks the most important mechanic, hitting your target.

Edited by mogs01gt, 14 October 2016 - 05:25 AM.

[Douglas grizzly]

sfmain, on 12 October 2016 - 04:03 PM, said:

locusts have no incentive to stop harassing a mech there need to be at least a leg nerf.


for the moment ill just tab out if they start bothering me.

There is a counter for locusts that even IS mechs can mount if you have even one missile mount and that is the streak 2. lights hate a mech with streaks and avoid them unless there is more than one light to tackle the streak mech. Note though there are some light pilots that are very good bordering on unreal in thier skill level. The ones i have a very hard time with whenever i run a strak boat is the locusts and that is bec they are so dammed twitchy especially in the hands of a good pilot. Its also why i am running far more laser vomits now bec i dont have to have a lock and i can just hit thier legs. Fun is hitting a mech doing the "Jesus" jump in midair and cutting both legs out in one go and watching them fall dead to the ground knowing they are frustrated by inability to do anything.

[Zibmo]

DrxAbstract, on 13 October 2016 - 09:18 AM, said:

Factually incorrect - Please stop, you're not right.


Factually incorrect - Please stop, you're still not right.


Still incorrect. As usual, you mistake your opinion for fact. You're wrong, yet again... And I'm not going to bother explaining why because people have been doing that with actual facts ever since you popped up on the forums. You didnt get it then, you still dont now. I'd say arguing with you is like beating a dead horse, but the horse had intelligence.

Do you think you are making a point? All you are doing is stating "this is a fact" while being as intellectually insulting as you can. No points awarded.

[MrMadguy]

Single Mom, on 14 October 2016 - 05:15 AM, said:

To me this translates to "Don't expect me to get better, I just want to win more". Unfortunately the PSR system is positive biased, this should be apparent within the first dozen games played. The system is set up such that there is a higher probability of you moving up in PSR than dropping PSR when all possible match outcomes are considered. That is to say if a poorly skilled player grinds enough games, eventually will hit tier1. The time till that eventuality is what varies based on personal skill.

It's not a perfect MMR system, I don't even think a game that struggles with player count need to resort to something like this. That being said, I don't think its any surprise that the forum folks don't have much sympathy for the "dont tell me to get better, I want to win more" attitude.

For me it translates to "You are either top Tier player or you can GTFO". No wonder, that only about 2K players play this game now.

And now it's too late, I guess. Cuz even if MM and balance would be fixed - game population is already at critical level, so now it's "imbalanced game vs infinite queue times" dilemma. PGI should have fixed this game, when I told them to. But they were stubborn, arrogant and said, they knew better, how to develop their game. Yeah.

Edited by MrMadguy, 14 October 2016 - 05:58 AM.

[meteorol]

Eregion, on 13 October 2016 - 10:45 PM, said:

We don't need videos.

Is quoting the Leaderboards' data a N&S infraction?
Because if it's not, many on this Forum (and this thread) should pay attention on what they say.

Like constantly horribad pilots who shame others for how bad they are (Season 3: 68; 109; 0,62; 80; 143; 0,56; 180; 146), or a couple who say to love Lights and are killers on them, and don't even have a match in them...

The leaderboards are quite interesting tbh. When reading some posts, you have to wonder if people either don't know others can actually see their leaderboardstats, or if they judge their own performance in this game with some kind of distorted perception.

It's especially conspicuous when people claiming the MM "only matches them with bad teams" and they do "hardcarry every match", and when you check their stats, it's pretty obvious they are average at best. Sometimes their stats suggest they don't even carry their own weight. Don't know if people only remember their better matches and judge their performance influenced by some sort of confirmation bias, but pretty often the stats do atleast suggest a different story than people tell.

Edited by meteorol, 14 October 2016 - 06:23 AM.

[Eregion]

meteorol, on 14 October 2016 - 06:22 AM, said:

The leaderboards are quite interesting tbh. When reading some posts, you have to wonder if people either don't know others can actually see their leaderboardstats, or if they judge their own performance in this game with some kind of distorted perception.

It's especially conspicuous when people claiming the MM "only matches them with bad teams" and they do "hardcarry every match", and when you check their stats, it's pretty obvious they are average at best. Sometimes their stats suggest they don't even carry their own weight. Don't know if people only remember their better matches and judge their performance influenced by some sort of confirmation bias, but pretty often the stats do atleast suggest a different story than people tell.

That's why a unit mate and me started to analize all those datas... from an individual pilot base up to Units and a global view of the population.