232 replies to this topic

[Haeso]

Red Beard, on 15 December 2011 - 07:57 AM, said:

MA was an extraordinary action game. And it represented the BT universe really well, utilizing the rudimentary functions of a battlemech in a fast paced game very solidly.

It was a good game, if you enjoyed simplistic action games to begin with. But it was not some pinnacle of gaming as you seem to revere it as. It represented the battletech universe really well perhaps in some bizarro world sense. Magical powerups, no ammunition, repairing on the go, no customization, respawns... Whether or not you enjoyed the game is irrelevant to how poorly it represented the universe, it didn't even feel like the same universe to anyone familiar with it.

[Kristov Kerensky]

Haeso, do what I did, put him on ignore, he's GOT to be a troll with that kind of comment, which he's repeated more then once, so best to just ignore him now and avoid getting in trouble.

[StarfyrGuns]

Well, sim game would be great, as LONG as its not so complicated, like happened with FALCON 4.0...anyone remember that?? lol. Manual was like a phone book. As for consoles..I think it should be PC only. At least initially. Then, later, if the company wants to make a dumbed-down version that will play on a console, thats fine. Just my opinion.

p.s. I have never been a console fan..last one I owned was an atari 2600 lol

[Mchawkeye]

StarfyrGuns, on 16 December 2011 - 12:35 AM, said:

Well, sim game would be great, as LONG as its not so complicated, like happened with FALCON 4.0...anyone remember that?? lol. Manual was like a phone book. As for consoles..I think it should be PC only. At least initially. Then, later, if the company wants to make a dumbed-down version that will play on a console, thats fine. Just my opinion.

p.s. I have never been a console fan..last one I owned was an atari 2600 lol

Remember it? I still play it. It's an amazing experience that, unlike so many things these days, didn't start from the assumption that the best target audience was the LCD. it's complicated because that's what is has to be to achieve what it wants to be. and it does that incredibly well.
While I agree that MWO shouldn't be too hard to pick up (a wee bit of challenge would be more than welcome though), it should also be exactly what it needs to be, and not try to dumb it's self down. Those kind of compromises rarely work.
The only problem with 'complicated' is that it would deter a lot of potential players, but that said, it is a simulation and it shouldn't be ridiculously easy.

Fear not, it isn't destined for the consoles, at least, not MWO. Maybe some other iteration if MWO does as well as we hope.

Edited by Mchawkeye, 16 December 2011 - 02:04 AM.

[rollermint]

There's always Hawken for those who have problems using more than 8 buttons?

Besides they already said that they will provide control schemes for both camps : a simplified one for those not used to mech sims and a more detailed sim control for the other side so I dunno why the community keep rambling and firing their ppcs at this old mech carcass.

[MaddMaxx]

Kristov Kerensky, on 15 December 2011 - 08:36 PM, said:

Haeso, do what I did, put him on ignore, he's GOT to be a troll with that kind of comment, which he's repeated more then once, so best to just ignore him now and avoid getting in trouble.

Please do that. I am no more troll than anyone else. The quote noted was not the one I was referring to so it has been deleted. Not surprising I can't find the one I was responding to.

[Red Beard]

MaddMaxx, on 16 December 2011 - 05:47 AM, said:

Please do that. I am no more troll than anyone else. The quote noted was not the one I was referring to so it has been deleted. Not surprising I can't find the one I was responding to.

Actually, Maxx, that comment was directed at ME. But, as you have already noticed, achieving the label of troll is as easy as having a differing opinion. It's convenient enough for some folks to simply ignore those that they disagree with, much like an ostrich plants it's head into the ground when trouble comes.

[Mchawkeye]

rollermint, on 16 December 2011 - 02:16 AM, said:

There's always Hawken for those who have problems using more than 8 buttons?

Besides they already said that they will provide control schemes for both camps : a simplified one for those not used to mech sims and a more detailed sim control for the other side so I dunno why the community keep rambling and firing their ppcs at this old mech carcass.

Really? Any chance you could point me top where they said that? 'Cause I missed it.

[Odin]

A simulation isn't necessary a scary, overly complex thing. Lots of folks like MWO to be more on the simulation side, instead of been the next call of duty, cos when we say simulation, we urge the Devs to actually code stuff into the game, which otherwise would be represented and modeled with a simply heath bar approach. the Sim needs players skill, vs the fps simulates playerskill: shooting the left torso, hitting it and getting the damage points roll&dices to the center section, cos its already down to 0% is what we simheads hate. A simulation needs you hit the important parts, or like in this case, you just hit a section, which is already gone, damaging nothing .... so if there isn't anything modeled into the code, theres nothing to gain. Simplifications lead to simple game play mechanics and shallow game expieriences; the: "WOAH!" did you see that explossion!" effect .... wears down rather quickly.

Edited by Odin, 16 December 2011 - 09:27 AM.

[MaddMaxx]

Red Beard, on 16 December 2011 - 06:15 AM, said:

Actually, Maxx, that comment was directed at ME. But, as you have already noticed, achieving the label of troll is as easy as having a differing opinion. It's convenient enough for some folks to simply ignore those that they disagree with, much like an ostrich plants it's head into the ground when trouble comes.

Damn, I thought I had finally said something so profound it actually made the reprisal list.

I want Maximum Sim! I am a MechWarrior! I may sound as if I don't but that is simply due to having seen all of this before. It is great to be adamant and all but some level of moderation has to prevail, and will, and I guess I should get off the proverbial fence and start growling louder about what I want. Sadly that doesn't help anyone or even accomplish anything, well Ok it does but the result gained I always find distasteful and unpalatable so I will just keep an open mind and throw out ideas as I get them and hope one actually sticks.

Hey, even a blind squirrel finds a Nut now and again.

Go SIM!...

Edited by MaddMaxx, 16 December 2011 - 09:35 AM.

[Kristov Kerensky]

MaddMaxx, on 16 December 2011 - 05:47 AM, said:

Please do that. I am no more troll than anyone else. The quote noted was not the one I was referring to so it has been deleted. Not surprising I can't find the one I was responding to.

I was talking about Red Beard, not you Maxx, and it's not because Red holds a differing opinion, it's his comments themselves. I saw the pattern off the bat but I had hoped it was just...his passion..for what he thought made the game great. But he's made more then a few statements that make it clear, he's trolling. So I put him on ignore, as I advised Haeso to do.

[KingCobra]

Well MadMaxx i will tell you what i wanted a MMO not a MWO the reason im saying this is Mechwarrior in one form or the other TT,PC,Megamech,ECT has never lived up to what i thought the Battletech Universe could be.I imagined a game that had character creation,skill sets,persistant galaxy&world mapping systems,pve tt&canon missions down battletech timelines,whole faction citys i could walk around shop for mech parts chat with players in the streats or in a lounge.Then i could walk or ride in a aerotaxi to the spaceport board my dropship go to my cabin or berth check the contracts boards then hop itno my mechlab and build configs for me and my team then have a simulator to run and test them.I also would have a battleroom i could walk into check the galaxy map system in a 3d interactive way to plan my battles and campaigns.Plus i would have a scrolling terrain system to fight on no more map borders just sector to sector fighting across the planets and galaxy.A real time map system for when i was on planet in a sector to see my bearings.Also realtime animations on planet drops and liftoffs would be nice.After all this and alot more i could add i would put a TT& Simulation feeling over it all.

In truth i dont want what we have had for the last 10 years in PC games,Mods,or even TT i think a whole new approch to Mechwarrior is needed to capture a new audiance of Fans and players.The one game i have to keep refering to is World Of Warcraft at the time it was first released nothing else was even close to what they produced and it became the most profitable and played game in history on PC i guess the word should be revolutionary.

[Kristov Kerensky]

KingCobra, on 16 December 2011 - 11:32 AM, said:

Well MadMaxx i will tell you what i wanted a MMO not a MWO the reason im saying this is Mechwarrior in one form or the other TT,PC,Megamech,ECT has never lived up to what i thought the Battletech Universe could be.I imagined a game that had character creation,skill sets,persistant galaxy&world mapping systems,pve tt&canon missions down battletech timelines,whole faction citys i could walk around shop for mech parts chat with players in the streats or in a lounge.Then i could walk or ride in a aerotaxi to the spaceport board my dropship go to my cabin or berth check the contracts boards then hop itno my mechlab and build configs for me and my team then have a simulator to run and test them.I also would have a battleroom i could walk into check the galaxy map system in a 3d interactive way to plan my battles and campaigns.Plus i would have a scrolling terrain system to fight on no more map borders just sector to sector fighting across the planets and galaxy.A real time map system for when i was on planet in a sector to see my bearings.Also realtime animations on planet drops and liftoffs would be nice.After all this and alot more i could add i would put a TT& Simulation feeling over it all.

In truth i dont want what we have had for the last 10 years in PC games,Mods,or even TT i think a whole new approch to Mechwarrior is needed to capture a new audiance of Fans and players.The one game i have to keep refering to is World Of Warcraft at the time it was first released nothing else was even close to what they produced and it became the most profitable and played game in history on PC i guess the word should be revolutionary.

You sir are a genius...and have just descibed what so many of us have wished for for many years now. You watching PGI? Pay attention..the market is here..we're willing to pull out the wallet and pay you for this..we've been willing to do it for over a decade now..come on...

[Dihm]

As fun as that sounds KC, it also sounds extraordinarily complex, expensive, and time consuming to develop.

[Red Beard]

Dihm, on 16 December 2011 - 11:40 AM, said:

As fun as that sounds KC, it also sounds extraordinarily complex, expensive, and time consuming to develop.

Yup.

And in the end, I want to actually live my own real life, and then come home and play a video game where I blow stuff up.

I know this may sound odd to some of you, but I actually love my real life and want to live IT out and not a make believe one.

Edit- I cannot believe I actually clicked "like" for something Dihm wrote. That's a first. I usually disagree with Dihm.

Edited by Red Beard, 16 December 2011 - 02:51 PM.

[Kristov Kerensky]

Dihm, on 16 December 2011 - 11:40 AM, said:

As fun as that sounds KC, it also sounds extraordinarily complex, expensive, and time consuming to develop.

It is those things, true enough, but if done well, they do tend to pay off...just ask Blizzard. I'm only too happy to point out that WoW is the poster child of LCD, but I'll also point out that it's a well done MMO, with a wide variety of things the player can do to keep themselves entertained BESIDES killing 20 more wolves for whomever. Not everyone who plays MMOs wants to be the killer of monsters, some want to be the people who make the tools to kill the monsters, others want to be the ones to sing their legends, entertain others, or just stand around and talk all day.

PGI has said they've some interest in this idea, but for NOW, they are making a PvP game that's NOT an MMO, just a persistant online world based on the BTU..much like Planetside. Levels and skills and lots and lots of combat. That's enough for most of us, that will keep us entertained and even get us to spend money. But some of us would really love to see a fully fleshed out MMO based on that..and maybe, later on down the road, once MWO is a hit, with a huge player base and money being spent on it..PGI can go to their investors and show them the numbers, 'X people want this full MMO experience, let us do it' and the investors will pay for it.

We can hope anyway.

[pcunite]

KingCobra, on 16 December 2011 - 11:32 AM, said:

In truth i dont want what we have had for the last 10 years in PC games,Mods,or even TT i think a whole new approch to Mechwarrior is needed to capture a new audiance of Fans and players.The one game i have to keep refering to is World Of Warcraft at the time it was first released nothing else was even close to what they produced and it became the most profitable and played game in history on PC i guess the word should be revolutionary.

Me too! An awesome immersive experience ... but who's going to write it and pay for it ... that's the problem. Some company ... some day is going to take the risk. The crazy thing is that Hollywood is spending millions every year on stupid movies ... the money is there, it is just the investors are onboard for some reason.

[Pht]

Red Beard, on 13 December 2011 - 09:19 PM, said:

Thanks to Pht for the leg work.

NP. Been over that ground quite a bit myself.

Quote

Can you at the least appreciate the fact that many people were brought into the MW fold by MA? There are PLENTY of players that have the capacity to enjoy both styles of game. Nobody deserves to be berated for enjoying the style of games that they do.

Sure, I can. I got into BT via mw3.

Quote

If lore is the only thing about MA that has elitists riled up, then why not be hateful toward ALL MW games, cause none of them went by the numbers perfectly.

This, at least for me, and I suspect many others, is .... part of the issue.

It's not that MI didn't get the lore completely correct... it's that the game was clearly designed in such a way as to make it obvious that the lore wasn't, beyond the aforementioned visuals and names, used for anything but name recognition. I doubt that even the implementation of shadowrun was quite as bad in this respect.

They didn't even say thank you and hang around for a cigarette, if you get my drift ... "thank you ma'am" probably didn't even get used.

And you know what? If they had just named it something like "'Mech - arcade" and billed it as a video game that people in the BTU played for kicks...

I don't think all the fuss that has happened would have ever happened.

Red Beard, on 14 December 2011 - 08:38 AM, said:

Don't take it personally when I say that I just cannot see that number being solid.

Wikipedia said:

The entire MechWarrior 2 game series accounted for more than US$70 million in sales.^[21]

LINK

To express that in 2010 amounts:

Current data is only available till 2010. In 2010, the relative worth of $70,000,000.00 from 1995 is:
$100,000,000.00 using the Consumer Price Index
$95,300,000.00 using the GDP deflator
$104,000,000.00 using the value of consumer bundle
$103,000,000.00 using the unskilled wage
$111,000,000.00 using the Production Worker Compensation
$118,000,000.00 using the nominal GDP per capita
$137,000,000.00 using the relative share of GDP

http://www.measuringworth.com/

Quote

A mechlab will only muddle the game and make for a large amount of useless configs. All the time and energy that they put into making a mechlab, they could be making the actual game better. But I say all of this as though my opinion matters.

To a not insignificant number of 'Mech fans, the mechlab is at least half of the game... and I disagree that the lab would, of necessity, muddle the game - and 'mech variants that are shelved in a no lab game could be unshelved via a good lab setup.

Quote

This is the flavor of the day for BT elitist fellas that see a need to berate casual players. I really don't like it either. It is in the same category as the statement..."Glad they didn't DUMB THIS DOWN for console users"

While I don't think that console players are necessarily "dumber" than pc gamers, I think there is a core difference between console and pc gamers.

Consoles are built for the "drop it in and play it" effect. Things, of necessity in some areas, must be simpler on consoles - and I'm not just thinking game-play.

Avid PC gamers, on the other hand, seem to relish the ability they have to not only play the game proper - and yes, until your average console user has to use a keyboard and mouse, there will be a controller disparity that does, in some genres more than others, make a real difference - it's the PC users and gamers that make the mods for games ... heck, it's the pc users that MAKE the console games.

Not that either kind of gamer is better or worse; but they are different animals who, in general, have different expectations.

Edited by Pht, 16 December 2011 - 05:50 PM.

[Mchawkeye]

My issue here, with a full on MMO is, essentially, that if star wars can;t make an actually successful MMO (and I'm talking Galaxies here, not The old republic) Star Trek has ballsed it up too.

While I would never deny that if you get a good game it will be successful, and neither Trek nor Galaxies was actually that terrible, if you can't make a success out of something like SW and ST ( and the Matrix for that matter), with it's built-in millions strong fan bases, what hope has Mechwarrior/Battletech got, in that particular market? I mean Honestly? WoW was one of the first to do it right, and it got a huge boost from that, I think.

It's taken, reportedly, $125 million to make a Star Wars game worthy of the name, it seems. To do BT the same justice, you are looking at the same kind of money. Easy. Is BT even close to the same market share as Star Wars? Not even

Personally, I think they have hit it right, in terms of scope. Not to big, not to small but plenty of potential for expansion.

That, and I, like the gentleman with the burgundy beard, have a life that I enjoy, pretty much of the time. If BT was to go the full MMO, that would comfortably be the end of that.

[Dihm]

Kristov Kerensky, on 16 December 2011 - 03:41 PM, said:

It is those things, true enough, but if done well, they do tend to pay off...just ask Blizzard. I'm only too happy to point out that WoW is the poster child of LCD, but I'll also point out that it's a well done MMO, with a wide variety of things the player can do to keep themselves entertained BESIDES killing 20 more wolves for whomever. Not everyone who plays MMOs wants to be the killer of monsters, some want to be the people who make the tools to kill the monsters, others want to be the ones to sing their legends, entertain others, or just stand around and talk all day.

PGI has said they've some interest in this idea, but for NOW, they are making a PvP game that's NOT an MMO, just a persistant online world based on the BTU..much like Planetside. Levels and skills and lots and lots of combat. That's enough for most of us, that will keep us entertained and even get us to spend money. But some of us would really love to see a fully fleshed out MMO based on that..and maybe, later on down the road, once MWO is a hit, with a huge player base and money being spent on it..PGI can go to their investors and show them the numbers, 'X people want this full MMO experience, let us do it' and the investors will pay for it.

We can hope anyway.

I dunno, I played WoW at launch. It's taken them YEARS to build up to what it is now, and it is completely different now than it was then.

Now, as to the second part, I'd love and want that too. BUT, gotta be realistic. This isn't Star Wars, this isn't WoW. And, honestly, I don't wanna wait another 3 years or however long it will take Warhammer 40K to come out, I have a feeling it will disappoint when it finally does. Long development like that tends to fail, at least it has in my experience.

Mchawkeye, on 16 December 2011 - 05:51 PM, said:

It's taken, reportedly, $125 million to make a Star Wars game worthy of the name, it seems.

That's debatable, I played the beta. Worthy of the Star Wars 1-3 maybe. <shudder>