60 replies to this topic

[jss78]

Viktor Drake, on 15 October 2016 - 12:35 PM, said:

Honestly I don't have the same issue with my Phoenix Hawks that other people seem to have and I have no idea why. I mean at first based on all the reviews, I was like, "Nope, not going to even buy the PH for C-bills" but then caved because they were one of my favorite IS mechs. My first reaction to them was, "Holly Hell these guys can tank damage, what the heck are people talking about?!?" and after 27 battles I have seen anything to change my mind about them. Then you have to consider two of the variants are ECM capable plus most of the variants have excellent jump capability as well. Overall I think they are pretty fun and decent.

Now that is not to say they are the best IS medium, not by a long shot but I just don't see them as bad as most people seem to make them out to be.

For my part, I'll agree that the PXH is a fun 'mech to play. While the arm weapons are problematic, there's also a fun factor in their inherent agility. Plus, a light medium is pretty much the only weight bracket in MWO where jump jets work as they should. I'll throw in a full complement every time.

The way I deal with the PXH's shortcomings is to not try to knife-fight with it. It's just too big, too squishy, and while fast not fast enough to make up for the big+squishy factor. Medium-range (LPL+ML) or long-range (LL) poking is what seems to work ... OK. Use mobility to relocate, poke from corners, try not to be the easiest and most obvious target for return fire. Works for me, though I'd say this is not because the PXH is "good" but because this is an easy approach to get decent scores when your 'mech sucks...

(Incidentally, this is about the same how I play the PXH in tabletop -- put in the pilot with best gunnery, jump from heavy woods to heavy woods, fire LL -- which amuses me.)

FupDup, on 15 October 2016 - 12:45 PM, said:

Fixed.

PGI can be blamed for many things, but the BT construction rules and all of the associated balancing problems are actually not their fault. I really think they should take proactive steps to counteract these effects, but the initial problem was not caused by them. It was caused by the source material, and never fixed.

Maybe you're right here, I've never played TT in even halfway competitive way. In campaign settings "desirability" is kind of moot as you can force people to make do with all kinds of suboptimal hardware.

I've sometimes wondered if TT players wouldn't gravitate towards similarly heavy 'mech companies as in MWO, if all economy and availability constraints were removed.

Edited by jss78, 15 October 2016 - 01:10 PM.

[FupDup]

jss78, on 15 October 2016 - 01:10 PM, said:

Maybe you're right here, I've never played TT in even halfway competitive way. In campaign settings "desirability" is kind of moot as you can force people to make do with all kinds of suboptimal hardware.

I've sometimes wondered if TT players wouldn't gravitate towards similarly heavy 'mech companies as in MWO, if all economy and availability constraints were removed.

Basically, the nutshell is that 45-tonners are in a weird place where they can't decide whether to be like a 35-40 tonner or a 50-55 tonner. If you wanna go fast you don't gain much compared to a 35-40 tonner, and if you wanna go slower you should definitely go at least 5 tons heavier.

[kuma8877]

Woohoo, my first post!

After reading thru this thread I felt my recent experience with the Phoenix Hawk might be useful, as the 1B is one of my absolute favorite mechs in MWO (limited tho my overall experience may be). I can't really say that it needs more armor. I generally spear and shield with the 1B, with a Rt and RA mounted PPC's and off hand 2 med lasers. The XL is a weakness but a semi-shield arm helps soak damage on the left side.

A lot of my success comes from the drawback of the PPC's (ER's were just too darn hot) as my main weapon platform, the damage activation range. It forces me to play at mid range, and I make active use of targets of opportunity and my ECM while hunting from in between larger mechs. This allows me to provide both passive and active support for my teamates thru my ecm and target lock while actively focusing fire and popping said targets of opportunity. I never focus on kills for their own sake and I never let a straggling assault come up alone.

Also, I never "run away". The nimbleness of the PHX allows (and my use of PPC's forces) an active, tactical retreat. Here, the use of JJ's to "burn and turn" combined with thoughtful use of terrain to continuously find ways to keep returning fire are a real strength of the PHX in this config. Tho, you must always be vigilant for those speedy little lights and you can't let them close the gap without taking damage from the PPC's before switching to the medium lasers. This is less of a problem since I generally stay within my own teams active perimeter or blob, and usually end up with some help with lights if they do break our ranks.

I can't speak for all the variants, but this is a deadly build that meshes well with my own play style. I love mediums in general, with the PHX-1B and the good 'ol Hunchy 4G being my favs,

I'm not a great player by any stretch yet, but my good games are coming more often so I must be learning and applying something.

[Angel of Annihilation]

You know I am wondering if my luck with the Phoenix Hawk has to do with the way I build them out. None of mine are really fast. My most efficient variant so far is the PHX-2 mounting a 270 XL, 2 x LL, 3 x ML, ECM, 6 JJ and 13 DHS. I don't have Speed Tweak quite unlocked yet and it only Runs 97.2 kph. However I have 18 kills in 11 matches with a 2.57 K/D and averaging 312 damage per match. Basically I load them and build them like they are a medium because that is what they are.

On the other hand, I seem to, quite often, see that most people tend to build them like they are a light mech, generally tossing in the biggest XL they can shoehorn into the mech . I mean I could take my PHX-2, toss in a 350XL that would get its speed up to 135 kph and load up on SPLs but then what I have is a huge Firestarter, granted with ECM but still, what is the point. Even if you dropped it down to a 325XL and mounted 6 MLs, your still talking about a big Firestarter.

In any case, I do wonder if the real issue is that people are trying to force the mech into a role it really isn't intended for and finding the mech falling short of their expectations.

[Alienized]

L3mming2, on 15 October 2016 - 01:09 PM, said:

some stuff i dont get, if u quit a game for good, why would you still roam around on its fora??

actually i found something better. lurmin along. all day. i used to be a brawler.
but fk this. its pointless. just lurmin lurmin lurmin now

[L3mming2]

Alienized, on 16 October 2016 - 04:53 AM, said:

actually i found something better. lurmin along. all day. i used to be a brawler.
but fk this. its pointless. just lurmin lurmin lurmin now

i use the KDK SB for pug brawling, it works quite well (going 90kph in a 100t mech will do that for u) (XL400, masc, lbx20 4 x ASRM6, 2 SPL, 19DHS)

[Alienized]

L3mming2, on 16 October 2016 - 05:19 AM, said:

i use the KDK SB for pug brawling, it works quite well (going 90kph in a 100t mech will do that for u) (XL400, masc, lbx20 4 x ASRM6, 2 SPL, 19DHS)

i dont do those mechs that are so imbalanced that they should been removed. i played victors, highlanders and all those mechs i love. certainly, this game is nothing for BT fans anymore.
now i have lrm40 adders, lrm 35 wolverines, lrm30 atlas and such stuff. cant be arsed to always be the first guy to do the push anymore because one thing is very clear: the playerbase is a major coward pile of sh*t.

thanks no thanks, no one ever said thanks to the guy starting the push to win a battle, dying early but starting the whole thing that leads to success.

just had such battles where no one dared to take a move. just after i ran with my cheetah after a hard fight vs 3 mechs, going on a flank, THEN they FOLLOWED. and utterly died.

ya mun, lurmin all along.

[Snowbluff]

It's true, I hardly aim at them but those Pixie arms keep falling off. We should rename them black knights.

Edited by Snowbluff, 16 October 2016 - 06:16 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Mystere, on 15 October 2016 - 01:07 PM, said:

Hey just because they would be too OP for YOU to handle doesn't mean it would be unbalanced.

[Deathlike]

Somewhere in the Balance Overlord's lair said:

Give me a show of hands for those of you that need arm buffs?
Anyone?
No?
OK then.

That's my Balance Overlord beta simulator. Lemme know if there are bugs in it...

[DrSaphron]

The Phoenix Hawk doesn't need armor or structure quirks, it NEEDS to be about 10-15% smaller and get tighter hit boxes (on par with the Arctic Cheater). Aside from that people have to remember to do a full body damage roll and ditch their position once they start taking fire, these things are glass cannons, always have been, always will be, even in TT!

[Deathlike]

DrSaphron, on 16 October 2016 - 08:54 AM, said:

The Phoenix Hawk doesn't need armor or structure quirks, it NEEDS to be about 10-15% smaller and get tighter hit boxes (on par with the Arctic Cheater). Aside from that people have to remember to do a full body damage roll and ditch their position once they start taking fire, these things are glass cannons, always have been, always will be, even in TT!

The chances of PGI fixing mech models and/or rescaling is closer to zero than it is to requirk it.

[Ryllen Kriel]

I love my Phoenix Hawks, and the quirk system is a mess, but I agree with the OP. The chassis needs to be rescaled or it needs structure quirks.

Edited by Ryllen Kriel, 16 October 2016 - 10:20 PM.

[Angel of Annihilation]

DrSaphron, on 16 October 2016 - 08:54 AM, said:

The Phoenix Hawk doesn't need armor or structure quirks, it NEEDS to be about 10-15% smaller and get tighter hit boxes (on par with the Arctic Cheater). Aside from that people have to remember to do a full body damage roll and ditch their position once they start taking fire, these things are glass cannons, always have been, always will be, even in TT!

I honestly just do not see the glass cannon part of it. Ok they are a 45 ton mechs so of course they don't have a massive amount of armor, but I have been amazed at the poundings I have be able to take in this mech and survive and I run XL engines in all of mine.

[Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky]

The problem with the PHX...

Is: I jump into a match thinking im going to do some over the top Max Sterling sh!t and deathstar the whole enemy team...

But died shortly after engaging the enemy team only to find out this wasnt the droid I was looking for...

[kuma8877]

Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky, on 16 October 2016 - 10:02 AM, said:

The problem with the PHX...

Is: I jump into a match thinking im going to do some over the top Max Sterling sh!t and deathstar the whole enemy team...

But died shortly after engaging the enemy team only to find out this wasnt the droid I was looking for...

Not everyone can be Max or Roy.... Maybe you're more of a Rick or Ben....

[Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky]

kuma8877, on 16 October 2016 - 10:16 AM, said:

Not everyone can be Max or Roy.... Maybe you're more of a Rick or Ben....

Ben... Lives a lot longer then I do... Im more like those random guys that die in the first invasion by those jumping pod guys...

[Weeny Machine]

Mcgral18, on 15 October 2016 - 08:51 AM, said:

Check back in 90 days


Big things at MechCon

Here's a hint (beware spoiler):

.
,
.
wanna buy a mechpack with a special Mechcon discount?

[Mystere]

Gas Guzzler, on 16 October 2016 - 07:53 AM, said:

Hey just because they would be too OP for YOU to handle doesn't mean it would be unbalanced.

You totally missed my point.

[Gas Guzzler]

I'm sure you had a very specific point by posting a gif of Putin laughing. How could I possibly misinterpret that one!