102 replies to this topic

[martian]

My favorite light 'Mech, even though I know that I am never going to see it in MWO:

Jaguar

[Mole]

I'm hopeful for the next 'mech release. Russ asked a while back what we wanted the next IS 'mech to be on Twitter and he was bombarded with requests for light 'mechs.

Of course, this is probably how he reacted to it:

[Alex Morgaine]

martian, on 25 October 2016 - 12:28 AM, said:

Yeah, the Raptor is not bad. It can boat about 10 Small lasers or some 5-6 Medium lasers. DHS make it competetive and it has no fixed equipment.

I would expect to be very nimble and resposive tiny 25-tonner.

One later model even comes with optional jump jets. I think that many Light 'Mech pilots would like to ride jump-capable Locust (albeit slightly overgrown).

Looks similar enough to a flea they could use the art asset they made way back with only minor fudging. Wouldn't mind it.

[Excessive Paranoia]

GreyNovember, on 25 October 2016 - 09:36 PM, said:

However when asking for a worse Locust because reasons, or two basically identical 20 tonner IS lights that go even SLOWER than the flea, the argument " I want a different experience " is basically " I want to pay for even harder mode, because I know this mech is objectively inferior, but I don't care, because reasons. "

Alternately, " I know this mech is objectively inferior, but quirks will save the day! ", because that's always a reliable horse to ride on and never backfired ever.

You're right... trying to rely on quirks has failed us miserably in the past, but that doesn't mean it doesn't / can't work, just that PGI have to get it right. That said, I still firmly disagree that many of the mechs you're calling "objectively inferior" are indeed inferior. The flea will carry masc, which when combined with its potential mobility quirks (I would find it hard to believe that PGI would give the locust acc/dec quirks and then release the flea without the same), would make for near instant forward to reverse, making it a great poker. Other mechs will probably follow in a similar vein as well.. if we ever get the stinger or wasp, it may be slower than the locust, but will have jump jets, allowing it to be even harder to hit. These mechs are not "objectively inferior", but rather different and potentially awesome in their own way (If PGI don't screw them up).

martian, on 25 October 2016 - 10:06 PM, said:

My favorite light 'Mech, even though I know that I am never going to see it in MWO:

Jaguar

Ahh, the feels of playing without quads... Scorpion is one of the only mechs I'd consider buying outside the light weight class if it ever came out (I can count the others on one hand and most will likely never see the light of digital MWO day).

Mole, on 26 October 2016 - 12:58 PM, said:

I'm hopeful for the next 'mech release. Russ asked a while back what we wanted the next IS 'mech to be on Twitter and he was bombarded with requests for light 'mechs.

Of course, this is probably how he reacted to it:

That sounds about right...

Edited by Excessive Paranoia, 29 October 2016 - 12:05 AM.

[Y E O N N E]

martian, on 25 October 2016 - 12:28 AM, said:

Yeah, the Raptor is not bad. It can boat about 10 Small lasers or some 5-6 Medium lasers. DHS make it competetive and it has no fixed equipment.

I would expect to be very nimble and resposive tiny 25-tonner.

One later model even comes with optional jump jets. I think that many Light 'Mech pilots would like to ride jump-capable Locust (albeit slightly overgrown).

I will pay PGI the full $75 amount or whatever it is for a Raptor package with Hero, Collectors, and Reinforcements.

I am not kidding.

The only way the deal is off is if they make it look like a Raptor II. I do not want a Raptor II. I want a Raptor.

[martian]

Yeonne Greene, on 29 October 2016 - 05:23 AM, said:

The only way the deal is off is if they make it look like a Raptor II. I do not want a Raptor II. I want a Raptor.

The only reason why the WoB Raptor II exists is because WizKids had it in their unfortunate MechWarrior: Dark Age game. Other than that, it has nothing in common with the original Raptor OmniMech

[Y E O N N E]

martian, on 29 October 2016 - 05:42 AM, said:

The only reason why the WoB Raptor II exists is because WizKids had it in their unfortunate MechWarrior: Dark Age game. Other than that, it has nothing in common with the original Raptor OmniMech

Yeah, I'm aware. However, Alex also has some history of taking a later look and applying it to the earlier named 'Mech. See: Stalker II and Atlas III and the Gûn (Locust), for good or ill.

[Bombast]

martian, on 29 October 2016 - 05:42 AM, said:

The only reason why the WoB Raptor II exists is because WizKids had it in their unfortunate MechWarrior: Dark Age game. Other than that, it has nothing in common with the original Raptor OmniMech

WizKids had a weird hard on for slapping numbers onto the end of mechs and calling it a day.

I mean, there was that one souless mech that ended up with four versions, or 'Mks' if you will, in three different weight ranges. Just Grade A laziness there, really poor showing. And the mechs were pretty lousy too.

Can't for the life of me remember the name of the mech, though. Some sort of wolf maybe? Angry Wolf?

[GreyNovember]

Excessive Paranoia, on 29 October 2016 - 12:05 AM, said:

You're right... trying to rely on quirks has failed us miserably in the past, but that doesn't mean it doesn't / can't work, just that PGI have to get it right. That said, I still firmly disagree that many of the mechs you're calling "objectively inferior" are indeed inferior. The flea will carry masc, which when combined with its potential mobility quirks (I would find it hard to believe that PGI would give the locust acc/dec quirks and then release the flea without the same), would make for near instant forward to reverse, making it a great poker. Other mechs will probably follow in a similar vein as well.. if we ever get the stinger or wasp, it may be slower than the locust, but will have jump jets, allowing it to be even harder to hit. These mechs are not "objectively inferior", but rather different and potentially awesome in their own way (If PGI don't screw them up).

We are at an impasse, it seems. You have an oddly optimistic view, considering past history.

"Different and potentially awesome" for MWO is like 8jjs on a spider, or 3 AMS on a Kitfox. Sure, there's an application for it, but overall, not so much.

Yeonne Greene, on 29 October 2016 - 05:23 AM, said:

The only way the deal is off is if they make it look like a Raptor II. I do not want a Raptor II. I want a Raptor.

Why?

The latter is a box on legs with a cockpit window that screams at you to hit it. Also equipment.

The latter at least looks like a threat considering it's sleek and angular, with tucked in, high weaponry.

Edited by GreyNovember, 29 October 2016 - 06:15 AM.

[Tordin]

TheArisen, on 24 October 2016 - 10:53 PM, said:

As has been pointed out, the perceived value of light mechs is less so in order for it to make financial sense to Pgi there needs to be a cheap way to offset it.

That means adding a mech with a good number of variants so it can get an extra 1or 2 in it's pack, clearly be a must buy somehow or have intense nostalgic factor.

If you can get something that fits all 3 then you've got the perfect choice.

The Flea: It has some following because it was announced & also has history of usage in TT & from MW4:mercs but honestly it'd just be a crappy Locust wannabe.

Stinger/Wasp: Essentially the same mech. Lots of nostalgia with these two but they'll struggle in MWO & offer nothing new.

Wannabe? Nothing new? So what, we do have similar mechs alredy, the difference is hardpoints, hardpoint locations, speed and so on. So because you dont want em, we that would want them shouldnt be able to get them? All mechs deserve to have chance to be in the game.
And heck, even if they do get unpopular and gather dust (which some sadly is alredy) some players will still do awesome in them andcatch everyone of guard (locust pilots). And a last thing. PGI sell/ give their mech models/ concepts to HBS so they can use it in the upcoming Battletech game, if clan mechs, well they could always do DLC/ Expansion with thoe later.

Its a win-win to include "crappy mechs" that "no-one" want. Its all very subjective indeed.

[martian]

Bombast, on 29 October 2016 - 06:07 AM, said:

WizKids had a weird hard on for slapping numbers onto the end of mechs and calling it a day.

I mean, there was that one souless mech that ended up with four versions, or 'Mks' if you will, in three different weight ranges. Just Grade A laziness there, really poor showing. And the mechs were pretty lousy too.

Can't for the life of me remember the name of the mech, though. Some sort of wolf maybe? Angry Wolf?

WizKids can't be blamed for everything.

The Mad Cat Mk. II debuted in MechWarrior 4: Vengeance one or two years earlier than WizKids produced their MechWarrior: Dark Age game.

However, we can blame Wizkids for milking the fans with their medium Mad Cat Mk. III and heavy Mad Cat Mk. IV (effectively selling the fans pretty much identical 'Mechs again).

I only wonder if we will see light Mad Cat Mk. V ...

[GreyNovember]

Tordin, on 29 October 2016 - 06:14 AM, said:

PGI sell/ give their mech models/ concepts to HBS so they can use it in the upcoming Battletech game

This seems to be the fallback reason.

"Sure it's not good in MWO, but it might in BT! Then I can totally utilize it and not ditch it for a superior chassis when I have the Cbills in that game! "

[Tordin]

Nah. A possibility, true. But then the shitstorm would happen that PGI cant afford.

[Y E O N N E]

GreyNovember, on 29 October 2016 - 06:13 AM, said:

Why?

The latter is a box on legs with a cockpit window that screams at you to hit it. Also equipment.

The latter at least looks like a threat considering it's sleek and angular, with tucked in, high weaponry.

Because the original looks troll-ish and that's 50% of the reason I want it. And the window is not going to be that visible, because the whole 'Mech will be tiny. No more visible than the cockpit on the MLX or CMD. I don't think I've ever been headshot in either, despite only running 1 point of armor there.

The newer one also looks too much like a Clan 'Mech. I'm getting tired of newly released IS 'Mechs looking sleek and shiny.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Excessive Paranoia, on 24 October 2016 - 03:02 AM, said:

I can get behind all of those except maybe the Hellion as its build date is nearly 3060 and we are apparently stuck on 3050, That said though... I'm already drooling over the locust IIc....

Would absolutely love a Vixen. On the IS side The Spector Looks awesome.

[Excessive Paranoia]

GreyNovember, on 29 October 2016 - 06:13 AM, said:

We are at an impasse, it seems. You have an oddly optimistic view, considering past history.

"Different and potentially awesome" for MWO is like 8jjs on a spider, or 3 AMS on a Kitfox. Sure, there's an application for it, but overall, not so much.




Why?

The latter is a box on legs with a cockpit window that screams at you to hit it. Also equipment.

The latter at least looks like a threat considering it's sleek and angular, with tucked in, high weaponry.

That same thinking has also given us a spider with a machine gun large pulse laser and one of the best cleanup mechs in the game, the oxide. Dismissing a chassis out of hand because it doesn't have your prerequisite number of hardpoints or engine cap is unfair across the board. Not only are you dismissing whatever potential that chassis might have, be it through quirks or genuine mechanics (JJ or MASC for example), but you're also feeding PGI's impression that lights aren't going to sell because they don't carry enough value.

[TheArisen]

Tordin, on 29 October 2016 - 06:14 AM, said:

Wannabe? Nothing new? So what, we do have similar mechs alredy, the difference is hardpoints, hardpoint locations, speed and so on. So because you dont want em, we that would want them shouldnt be able to get them? All mechs deserve to have chance to be in the game.
And heck, even if they do get unpopular and gather dust (which some sadly is alredy) some players will still do awesome in them andcatch everyone of guard (locust pilots). And a last thing. PGI sell/ give their mech models/ concepts to HBS so they can use it in the upcoming Battletech game, if clan mechs, well they could always do DLC/ Expansion with thoe later.

Its a win-win to include "crappy mechs" that "no-one" want. Its all very subjective indeed.

I never said you ppl can't have them, I'm just pointing out the fact that it's just not going to be very good in MWO.

[GreyNovember]

Excessive Paranoia, on 29 October 2016 - 12:37 PM, said:

That same thinking has also given us a spider with a machine gun large pulse laser and one of the best cleanup mechs in the game, the oxide. Dismissing a chassis out of hand because it doesn't have your prerequisite number of hardpoints or engine cap is unfair across the board. Not only are you dismissing whatever potential that chassis might have, be it through quirks or genuine mechanics (JJ or MASC for example), but you're also feeding PGI's impression that lights aren't going to sell because they don't carry enough value.

We're looping at this point. Your scenarios depend on the said mechs being quirked properly, and not getting a nerfbat the minute they seem to have stepped out of line ( multiple threads about " THIS MECH KILLED ME " , " I'M AN ASSAULT, LIGHTS SHOULD NEVER WIN AGAINST ME 1v1 ").

I can't think of a scenario where an underdog light has reliably kept this position.

Sure, it's great to think it COULD be POTENTIALLY, but this relies on the said changes to MASC and JJ, and it retaining powerquirks, to remain. Unless you're suggesting a change of mechanics to sell the mech, it won't work in our given environment.

Also, "Best cleanup mech" isn't exactly a notable title. It's good at killing things already hurt. What does this imply?

[CycKath]

martian, on 29 October 2016 - 06:19 AM, said:

WizKids can't be blamed for everything.

The Mad Cat Mk. II debuted in MechWarrior 4: Vengeance one or two years earlier than WizKids produced their MechWarrior: Dark Age game.

However, we can blame Wizkids for milking the fans with their medium Mad Cat Mk. III and heavy Mad Cat Mk. IV (effectively selling the fans pretty much identical 'Mechs again).

I only wonder if we will see light Mad Cat Mk. V ...

Nah, Mad Cat Mk V would be Battle Armor to compete against the Marauder Battle Armor

Edited by CycKath, 29 October 2016 - 09:04 PM.

[martian]

CycKath, on 29 October 2016 - 09:04 PM, said:

Nah, Mad Cat Mk V would be Battle Armor to compete against the Marauder Battle Armor

No, that would be Mad Cat Mk. VI