Jump to content

Is Small Laser Needs Some Love!


14 replies to this topic

#1 GweNTLeR

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • IS Exemplar
  • IS Exemplar
  • 349 posts

Posted 25 October 2016 - 09:20 PM

Dear PGI,
IS small laser is the least frequent weapon on the battlefield. Why? Every T1-2 player will tell you that "in most cases it is the least effective weapon". I'm not saying, that I find it very dumb, that ER-version (C-ER-SMALL LASER) is more efficient (1.66 DPH vs 1.5 DPH), WAY MORE DPS(1.54 vs 1.0), but with limited IS hardpoints it is way less efficient to stack multiple SL than clan ones. So maybe ED is the right time to boost IS SL?

#2 Kmieciu

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Urban Commando
  • Urban Commando
  • 3,436 posts
  • LocationPoland

Posted 25 October 2016 - 10:21 PM

IS Small laser deserves a heat reduction (2->1) and a range increase (150 meters).
At least then it will be used used by lights.

Edited by Kmieciu, 25 October 2016 - 10:21 PM.


#3 Y E O N N E

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Nimble
  • The Nimble
  • 16,206 posts

Posted 25 October 2016 - 10:29 PM

View PostKmieciu, on 25 October 2016 - 10:21 PM, said:

IS Small laser deserves a heat reduction (2->1) and a range increase (150 meters).
At least then it will be used used by lights.


No it won't. It fires way too slowly. A 40 meter advantage over an SPL is not enough to compel me to use it.

#4 GweNTLeR

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • IS Exemplar
  • IS Exemplar
  • 349 posts

Posted 26 October 2016 - 12:46 AM

View PostKmieciu, on 25 October 2016 - 10:21 PM, said:

IS Small laser deserves a heat reduction (2->1) and a range increase (150 meters).
At least then it will be used used by lights.

3.0 DPH might be a little too much(I think 2.25 would be fine if we consider IS energy hardpoint limitations), but increasing range is definetely a solution worth considering.
By the way, another solution could be increasing their damage (3->3.7 for example) or giving them increased crit chance (like MG or AC2).

Edited by GweNTLeR, 26 October 2016 - 09:29 AM.


#5 Kuaron

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,072 posts

Posted 26 October 2016 - 03:40 PM

Heat and damage occur only in integers in the game.
If one makes SL 2/4, there wouldn't be any use in SPL, which are well in use currently.
1/3 is too efficient, as you said.
One could try 1-2 and a largely increased range, in which case people might start taking the SL to fill left over slots.

The problem is one, but not that easily solved.

Edit:
Still, a maybe better option (to wasting half a ton on 2 dmg), would be to make them 2/4 and differ from SPLs via burn duration of 0.8 - 0,85 s. With an increased range they could become a natural choice for a half medium laser, while the SPLs would stay important where one needs a facetime as short as possible.

Edited by Kuaron, 26 October 2016 - 04:12 PM.


#6 Y E O N N E

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Nimble
  • The Nimble
  • 16,206 posts

Posted 26 October 2016 - 04:36 PM

Heat and damage do not only occur in integers. Pulse lasers used to have decimal values for their damage values and range makes damage fall off in fractions. Quirks make the heat occur in fractions, too.

I would much rather IS SL fire faster than anything else. If it had a closer to 1 second cool-down, it would finally be useful. I'd take SPL for a more front-loaded shot, SL for more DPS. Heat stays at 2.

#7 Kuaron

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,072 posts

Posted 26 October 2016 - 05:43 PM

Sorry, I didn't express it properly:
They are both noted in integers in the Mechlab, so their base values are.
I hope this resolves your problem.

But yes, a DPS-heavy solution can work, too.

Edited by Kuaron, 26 October 2016 - 05:44 PM.


#8 Mcgral18

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • WC 2018 Top 12 Qualifier
  • WC 2018 Top 12 Qualifier
  • 17,974 posts
  • LocationSnow

Posted 26 October 2016 - 07:10 PM

View PostKuaron, on 26 October 2016 - 05:43 PM, said:

Sorry, I didn't express it properly:
They are both noted in integers in the Mechlab, so their base values are.
I hope this resolves your problem.

But yes, a DPS-heavy solution can work, too.


Would you like to learn that the cUAC10 deals 3.3333 damage?
Each trigger pull generates three of those, so it doesn't actually deal 200 Dam/ton, but just under that.



Damage values can be any floating point number.

Edited by Mcgral18, 26 October 2016 - 07:11 PM.


#9 Kuaron

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,072 posts

Posted 26 October 2016 - 07:14 PM

And lasers do a fraction number of damage every 0.1 seconds.
Now scroll up and read again what I wrote.

#10 GweNTLeR

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • IS Exemplar
  • IS Exemplar
  • 349 posts

Posted 26 October 2016 - 10:29 PM

View PostKuaron, on 26 October 2016 - 05:43 PM, said:

Sorry, I didn't express it properly:
They are both noted in integers in the Mechlab, so their base values are.
I hope this resolves your problem.

But yes, a DPS-heavy solution can work, too.

IS SRM have 2.15 dmg/missile(and btw it differs from sarna's 2.0) (so 4.3, 8.6, 12.9 damage for srm2/4/6) and are counted correctly in the mechlab. AC 2 heat is 0.8, also not a integer. So what's the problem?

Edited by GweNTLeR, 26 October 2016 - 11:27 PM.


#11 Wraith 1

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 633 posts

Posted 27 October 2016 - 02:10 AM

View PostYeonne Greene, on 25 October 2016 - 10:29 PM, said:


No it won't. It fires way too slowly. A 40 meter advantage over an SPL is not enough to compel me to use it.


With a buff as tiny as that, I'd use them on my FS9-A and JR7-D just because of the tonnage and heat efficiency.

But yeah, they'd still be entirely useless for everything else, everything else has the tonnage/heat to spare.

#12 Kuaron

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,072 posts

Posted 27 October 2016 - 06:12 AM

View PostGweNTLeR, on 26 October 2016 - 10:29 PM, said:

IS SRM have 2.15 dmg/missile(and btw it differs from sarna's 2.0) (so 4.3, 8.6, 12.9 damage for srm2/4/6) and are counted correctly in the mechlab. AC 2 heat is 0.8, also not a integer. So what's the problem?

Oh, indeed. Then I take back what I said and we can make them 1,5 heat or so and extended range.

The DPM solution is something more suitable for pulse lasers, according to the latest PTS round.

#13 Y E O N N E

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Nimble
  • The Nimble
  • 16,206 posts

Posted 27 October 2016 - 07:14 AM

View PostWraith 1, on 27 October 2016 - 02:10 AM, said:


With a buff as tiny as that, I'd use them on my FS9-A and JR7-D just because of the tonnage and heat efficiency.

But yeah, they'd still be entirely useless for everything else, everything else has the tonnage/heat to spare.


Even then, no. I can comfortably fit SPL in any 'Mech. I will not be sticking around a fight long enough to heat soak them, so heat is not a concern for me. Maximum rate of damage out, however, is paramount. Lights simply can't really do it consistently with the isSL right now, even with eight on a Firestarter...which is only Locust firepower and not even as good because it burns 50% longer.

The only times I use isSL are when I need a cheap MPL. On an LCT-3M I take a pair to supplement the three MPL and give me the same close range punch as the 6xSPL 1E. On the BJ-1X, I again take a pair to boost the 6xMPL build back up to 42 damage up close. The isSL currently synchronizes with the MPL in burn very well, and even better with a duration quirk. But this is about the extent of their utility unless they are made to cycle much faster.

Edited by Yeonne Greene, 27 October 2016 - 07:15 AM.


#14 Karl Streiger

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Wrath
  • Wrath
  • 19,918 posts
  • LocationGenau hier

Posted 27 October 2016 - 09:26 AM

The laser system need to be destroyed and to rebuild afterwards.
I hate the circumstances that a single weapon of any kind is a waste of tonnage - but things stacking exponential.
The clan small pulse laser sucks but nobody would admit it because you could mount in most clan mechs half a dozen or more
To ask for the small laser to get better is complete irrelevant - because as long as you can't mount 6 or more you don't fidle with small lasers


Edited by Karl Streiger, 27 October 2016 - 09:33 AM.


#15 Dee Eight

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 5,707 posts

Posted 07 November 2016 - 02:58 PM

The big problem with lasers, inner sphere ones especially, is they monkeyed with the heat scaling so often and the ranges as to render them totally unbalanced now. IF IS Med lasers had proper heat (3 not 4) for their 5 damage, and IS Small lasers also had proper heat (1 not 2) for their 3 damage, and IS SPL's again proper heat and damage (2 heat for 3 damage, not 2 for 4) then we'd see more lights using regular small lasers, and fewer larger mechs substituting in SPLs for MLs. Not to mention the inflated ranges for everything except SRMs and S-SRMs and flamers.

Edited by Dee Eight, 07 November 2016 - 03:01 PM.






1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users