55 replies to this topic

[Bloodwitch]

Davers, on 29 October 2016 - 02:03 PM, said:

Just for clarification, there isn't a forum rule that there must always be a MM thread on the front page.

There is also no law which tells you to keep breathing constantly, yet you do it anyways.

[El Bandito]

Cathy, on 31 October 2016 - 04:26 AM, said:

World of Tanks has the same level of repetitiveness, or monotony as you call it, yet has thousands more playing the game, and have played it longer, sorry but your point of view isn't valid

That's because gamers all over the world can relate far more to WWII than some TT based fantasy game.

[DaZur]

El Bandito, on 31 October 2016 - 05:19 AM, said:

That's because gamers all over the world can relate far more to WWII than some TT based fantasy game.

And that's somehow PGI's fault?

The BT IP has and always will be a niche genre with a relatively small but rabid playerbase. Yes, it has potential to gain more through immersion but let's be realistic... It will never amass the playerbase numbers to even come close to third-tier FPS.

We can't even try to draw correlation to the MW game heyday... Time'a changing and folks just don't buy into stompy robot action like they used to. (I've got some theories on that... but I digress)

[Clownwarlord]

Davers, on 29 October 2016 - 02:03 PM, said:

Just for clarification, there isn't a forum rule that there must always be a MM thread on the front page.

When MM is this bad it is an unwritten rule.

[El Bandito]

DaZur, on 31 October 2016 - 05:49 AM, said:

And that's somehow PGI's fault?

The BT IP has and always will be a niche genre with a relatively small but rabid playerbase. Yes, it has potential to gain more through immersion but let's be realistic... It will never amass the playerbase numbers to even come close to third-tier FPS.

We can't even try to draw correlation to the MW game heyday... Time'a changing and folks just don't buy into stompy robot action like they used to. (I've got some theories on that... but I digress)

No one said BT IP is PGI's fault. I simply said the monotony of MWO made its players leave the game, which is far more disastrous for a niche game like MWO. PGI's bad handling of the game also ensured that many of their most loyal customers had left in disgust.

Edited by El Bandito, 31 October 2016 - 06:50 AM.

[DaZur]

El Bandito, on 31 October 2016 - 06:48 AM, said:

No one said BT IP is PGI's fault. I simply said the monotony of MWO made its players leave the game, which is far more disastrous for a niche game like MWO. PGI's bad handling of the game also ensured that many of their most loyal customers had left in disgust.

Oh, no doubt the game has lost players to PGIs actions or inactions... That said, I think there is some gross over-estimation as to what this communities numbers used to be, the number of players who lost interest versus being driven away and what number this community could ultimately have been.

A lot of folks like to lump the players who just didn't like MWO with the players who were driven away from MWO by PGI, the state of the game / direction it's been taken.

For sure, folks have bailed... but it's not "just" because PGI is incompetent.

[Mawai]

Cathy, on 29 October 2016 - 01:52 PM, said:

When is there going to be any sanity in what people are facing.

Not only are the gates all open so that there can be no mediums and no lights in a game these days, but the tonnage variation is disgusting.

Just finished a game with my alt.

Both sides had three assaults side A had Zeus, Victor, Awesome, side B had KDK-3 Atlas D-DC, Direwolf.

This kind of imbalance went all through the sides if it wasn't gross disparity between weight side B ended up with better mechs, Timberwolf against Orion. Only in one mech was there any parity and that was both sides shared a Rifleman.
It's getting rather stupid

I agree that the matchmaker could be better. Balancing tonnage a bit better would be great especially since assaults are not balanced.

However, I would like to point out that nothing has changed. The matchmaker has been the same as far as weight class matching goes for years now. It has never looked at tonnage ... only weight class. There have been many threads with comments and suggestions for improvements on this algorithm but it hasn't changed since PGI doesn't seem to understand how to make the matchmaker better and doesn't see any revenue potential in investing in seeing if they can come up with something a bit better.

Personally, I think that the situation could be somewhat improved in the quick play queue with a very small investment of resources. Once the matchmaker has 24 players in the required weight classes and in the proper pilot skill range ... it could run a very fast tonnage optimization pass to avoid situations with 3x100 on one team and 3x80 on the other. No matter what happens it would still wind up with 2x100 1x80 vs 1x100 2x80 ... but at least it would be more even and the matchmaker could use "pilot skill" as the deciding factor on which to move.

This kind of approach would not require writing a whole new matchmaker ... just a quick post-processor that could re-arrange the teams before passing the data off to the game server. The algorithm could be made to address more cases by looking at total tonnage on both sides as well as the total tonnage in each weight class. Finally, if they wanted to get even more complicated they could assign a rough scaling factor representing the average effectiveness of each chassis so that the more effective mechs would count as additional tonnage in the balancing. Anyway, since all of this would be a post-processor once the 24 players have been selected ... I think it would be fast, efficient and relatively effective at reducing the frequency of large tonnage/effectiveness imbalances in matches.

[Mole]

FupDup, on 29 October 2016 - 05:39 PM, said:

My favorite part about this picture is the Stalker that's flipped upside down in the back. I've seen so many potatoes that if it were possible to flip a 'mech, I'm sure they would.

[mogs01gt]

MM is funny. I purposely use bad and non-meta mechs. My KDR has dropped from 2.2 to 1.6 with the introduction of PSR yet my PSR keeps going up..Im almost tier1...fail!

[MrJeffers]

Ghogiel, on 30 October 2016 - 01:57 AM, said:

afaik It's never been stated it does that. It should be pulling players from the availible in the bucket, which allows it match PSR delta and weight classes across the 2 teams. So the answer is maybe (imo unlikely, probably works like it used to with instead of a target player Elo but with a target PSR.)

Assuming this is still how it works (no reason to think they changed this piece with the switch to PSR as the seed), this post indicates it alternates adding a player to the smaller team (one for A, one for B, one for A, Group queue could be A, B , B, B, A, etc because of different group sizes):
http://mwomercs.com/...93#entry3695793

Quote

The matchmaker 'seeds' with an oldest player or group. Once it's decided on it's seed, it then proceeds to iteratively add groups / players to the smallest team until the game is full and ready for launch. The criteria for how it adds players is complex and deserves a fairly in-depth post; but beyond the initial seed, there is no consideration of age.

Edited by MrJeffers, 31 October 2016 - 08:19 AM.

[WarHippy]

Cathy, on 29 October 2016 - 01:52 PM, said:

When is there going to be any sanity in what people are facing.

Not only are the gates all open so that there can be no mediums and no lights in a game these days, but the tonnage variation is disgusting.

Just finished a game with my alt.

Both sides had three assaults side A had Zeus, Victor, Awesome, side B had KDK-3 Atlas D-DC, Direwolf.

This kind of imbalance went all through the sides if it wasn't gross disparity between weight side B ended up with better mechs, Timberwolf against Orion. Only in one mech was there any parity and that was both sides shared a Rifleman.
It's getting rather stupid

It isn't the MM that is causing you problems it is me. I have been playing more recently and I bring down the quality of every team I am on and I have been on yours several times as of late. Sorry Cathy it is all my fault. Although, I can't take credit for some of the strange builds I have been seeing lately like 2x ERLL, 1x LL, 2x ML, and 1x LRM20+A.

[Dee Eight]

You'd think the Macross IP owners would have made an effort at this sort of game by now.

[C E Dwyer]

El Bandito, on 31 October 2016 - 05:19 AM, said:

That's because gamers all over the world can relate far more to WWII than some TT based fantasy game.

Agreed, but it's no less repetitive

[El Bandito]

Cathy, on 31 October 2016 - 11:45 AM, said:

Agreed, but it's no less repetitive

Then it seems the gameplay itself is superior to that of MWO, despite being repetitive.

[DaZur]

El Bandito, on 31 October 2016 - 11:49 AM, said:

Then it seems the gameplay itself is superior to that of MWO, despite being repetitive.

FLAG... Unnecessary false narrative and piling on!

It's acknowledged WWII combat is a solid grounding force and as a result will inherently attract and retain more players. Cathy's argument that it's no more or less repetitive than WOT still stands.

[Tarl Cabot]

Tarl Cabot, on 30 October 2016 - 01:51 AM, said:

Does it really pick an entire side first before going to the next side? Would it not be better, across the board if it was done via lance side?




Just to be clear, team one is selected and say the 1st player seeded was Tier 2, and the MM gobbled them all up. Now for team two, it is able to find a few Tier 2, a Tier 1 and the rest being Tier 3 with the appropriate weights.


Of course, what is noted in the following thread, many components of it can be applied to the QP, especially about communication and working as a team.
http://mwomercs.com/...e-maps-are-bad/

http://mwomercs.com/...93#entry3695793
And someone linked this page. Provided the primary thing that changed from the Elo to the PSR is the data/Tier, then the MM alternates between teams instead of just filling one team than filling the other side.

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 31 October 2016 - 02:39 PM.