84 replies to this topic

[Scorpioneldar]

Douglas Reichel, on 20 July 2012 - 01:48 AM, said:

Well first off...it depends on just how much power the wizards are flinging around. Which in itself is rather silly, as their attacks (even those of the bad guys) seem to be slightly better than artillery fire even at their most destructive. Whereas they're capable of generating defenses capable of stopping such blasts, which obligates power output at least four times as great, since it stops them cold. Why they can't pump that much juice into their attacks (which are much simpler and easier) is beyond all reason. Granted, it would render their defenses meaningless that way, unless they deflected instead of stopped a blast, which is seen, but rarely.
.

maybe they can the killing curse blows through all known defenses cept for solid stone which explodes on contact with no missile only the rock can become fragments for shrapnel and a powerful enough hit would destroy most of that so we really have no knowledge of just how strong this is... and i poke kersplody shaped potential wholes in my earlier argument about said curse.... meh to tired need sleep figure it out tomarow

wait must be weaker than nuke tombstones mostly still there when hit course it could all be focused on penetration with a contact detonation element no hmmmmm

must think when brain works again good night for real it be 404 am here brain not found (no really it is 404 am here)

[Thorgar Wulfson]

Scorpioneldar, on 22 July 2012 - 02:25 AM, said:

not in harry potter most of them in that show are fighting at max ranges of across a courtyard and even then they miss far more than they hit

granted they have a much bigger target but still mechs can and will fire from much farther than that the question would be could they fire that close not that far(kinda hard to hit something at your feet when you weren't designed to aim down there though getting stepped in becomes a real issue
and if a slab of stone can stop the killing curse the only spell powerful enough to blow through all known shields most spell that work off off power/damage potential won't work or even do much more than scratch the paint...
most of your arguments imply that they can just ignore things like armor and yet a castle wall and house walls (some even muggle) can and do stop spells from traveling through them hell if it doesn't exert a physical force those things ussualy don't even take damage



however some people have brought up good points (including you) a teleport would remove the mech from the field entirely and harry potter wizards actually do show the ability to enchant golems to fight on their behalf i was wrong earlier (Hogwarts suits of armor anyone just scale up) however enchanting the mechs themselves would be useless either the mechs are imune or they break when hit remember what happens to electricity around mages
one thing though in harry potter whenever they teleport an object everyone touching it goes with so the pilot would be fine just not able to assitst in the battle (though do we know if they have a size/weight limit or range limit to the apparition or port-key methods of travel
such illusions or transfiguration as you mentioned would take a tremendous amount of power to accomplish though
could dumbles or voldie do it maybe we don't really know the math but both were far beyond what anyone else in verse had as far as power was concerned

levitation spells canonically take more power to use on things that weigh more and is why they start with a feather and not a rock
though maybe dean hear could do some dammage as in first year he was setting water on fire and exploding feathers like a semi-volitle chemical combination
this also assumes any faction in either verse would know or care about the other

in most stories and harry potter in particular the wizards seem to be limited by line of sight and even a human can dodge in time to avoid a hit

though silent casting may reduce cast time and invisible spells are hard to dodge though most don't exert physical harm...

note to this is strictly harry potter magic we refer to not magic in general

sadly i dont know harry potter world that well lol.

Using magic from the tabletop games im familiar with and no your mechs not immune to being controlled, a good mage could even disrupt the energy flow of the mech with a dampen spell. then again most of the tabletop games i play tech and magic are both present so a lot of the debate has been already killed off.

[Thorgar Wulfson]

Douglas Reichel, on 20 July 2012 - 03:14 AM, said:

Nah, not really, I'm not forgetting anything. Potter-verse wizards seem to need either a token of the target, or line of sight to it. In fact, all wizards but D&D wizards seem to have this restriction.

In any case, all forms of offensive magic are limited in both scope and range. A wizard can't petrify a pilot inside a mech because he can't see or get within spell range of him, and could only affect a single part on a mech...which would only do any good if they knew what part they were trying to affect, which they can't because they don't even understand a tv remote, let alone a massively advanced piece of 31st century top-end military hardware.

Additionally, transforming an object from one form into another requires an understanding of the form of the original object. You must have at least a layperson's understanding of what the material is like and the shape and purpose of the object to start with. If you try to change a carbon alloy into wood without knowing at least that it's a combination of carbon and other materials, the spell will just fizzle because you can't "aim" it properly with your intent. This simple fact is displayed time and again in nearly every novel and movie involving magic. If you don't know what you're dealing with, you can't alter it. You don't have to be an engineer, but you at least have to have a conceptual understanding. And no magic-user in any setting would have even the vaguest idea of the makeup or functioning of a mech (except MAYBE those from Shadowrun, but then they can't do the same things non-game wizards can).

Also, if you are talking D&D...you apparently don't know about casting times, since all the spell effects you mentioned have casting times of 1 round or greater, which is a minimum of 6 seconds...5 seconds longer than even a light mech needs to overwhelm the defenses of even an epic-level caster. Oh...and the mech and its parts would all get saves based on the pilot, as it's either a weapon or armor worn or wielded by the pilot anyway.

dont know potter-verse taht well.

in most games you can use ritual isntead of instant cast to greatly enhance the range to well beyond line of sight. as to your "you must have a understanding of the material" does not actually hold up with most forms of magic in most RPG's. You also forgot Iron Kingdoms (Warmachines tabletop) they use mechs as wizards lol.

I wont argue potter-verse as i dont know it well but their are enough D&D, Ironkingoms, and Rift's spells to pretty much kill a mech or its pilot fairly easily. Hell in Rifts the mages are the equivalent of mecha as their spells are as powerful as mech weapons, and their mage armor is just as protective as a Atlas's armor.

[Donovan Jenks]

Duh. Everyone knows that Comstar is really the evolution of Hogwarts school for gifted youngsters.

They moved the whole operation over to Hilton Head after the destruction of the original Hogwarts. Myndo Waterly used her wand to conjure up all of the Ghost Regiments for Theodore Kurita to use against the Davion and Steiner Muggles in the War of 3039.

The Wobbies are the worshipper of "he-who-shall-not-be-named"

[Atlai]

Donovan Jenks, on 22 July 2012 - 07:03 AM, said:

Duh. Everyone knows that Comstar is really the evolution of Hogwarts school for gifted youngsters.

They moved the whole operation over to Hilton Head after the destruction of the original Hogwarts. Myndo Waterly used her wand to conjure up all of the Ghost Regiments for Theodore Kurita to use against the Davion and Steiner Muggles in the War of 3039.

The Wobbies are the worshipper of "he-who-shall-not-be-named"

Then who are the clans?

[shaddurak]

but again all the mechwarriors have to do is link up with a sattilite or a plane of some sort then once they have the location of enemy camp/base/HQ they will only have to roll a couple of catapults up and bam longrange missles ahoy!

[Atlai]

shaddurak, on 22 July 2012 - 07:16 AM, said:

but again all the mechwarriors have to do is link up with a sattilite or a plane of some sort then once they have the location of enemy camp/base/HQ they will only have to roll a couple of catapults up and bam longrange missles ahoy!

Not to mention, he said BT not Battmech, which means you could have planes carpet bomb the area

[Eximar]

Mason West, on 22 July 2012 - 07:15 AM, said:

Then who are the clans?

Let's see. House elves are genderless and probably grown in vats, so yeah, I'll go with that.

[Douglas Reichel]

Thorgar Wulfson, on 22 July 2012 - 06:50 AM, said:

dont know potter-verse taht well.

in most games you can use ritual isntead of instant cast to greatly enhance the range to well beyond line of sight. as to your "you must have a understanding of the material" does not actually hold up with most forms of magic in most RPG's. You also forgot Iron Kingdoms (Warmachines tabletop) they use mechs as wizards lol.

I wont argue potter-verse as i dont know it well but their are enough D&D, Ironkingoms, and Rift's spells to pretty much kill a mech or its pilot fairly easily. Hell in Rifts the mages are the equivalent of mecha as their spells are as powerful as mech weapons, and their mage armor is just as protective as a Atlas's armor.

I have only one question...does Rifts use Mega-damage? If it doesn't, then the point may be moot, as battletech weapons are equivalent to standard robotech weapons, which all deal 100 times the damage a wizard deals in any game, point for point. If it does...well then wizards who do mega-damage would be a threat, but would still ultimately lose to mecha...as only born wizards can be taught to use magic, but anyone (with proper training) can use mecha, and the training goes much more quickly and consistently.

That's the problem with the universe...mass production always beats hand-crafting.

[Peter Valentine]

Balls of Steele, on 19 July 2012 - 02:13 AM, said:

I've always wondered how wizards in the Potter 'verse would stand up to fast jets, automatic weapons and bvr artillery. Surely against a Battlemech they don't stand a fighting chance? Is there a spell that can block a PPC?

I dont know what shoud I say...my mind just died because of this topic....

[Emerald Fox]

Balls of Steele, on 19 July 2012 - 02:13 AM, said:

I've always wondered how wizards in the Potter 'verse would stand up to fast jets, automatic weapons and bvr artillery. Surely against a Battlemech they don't stand a fighting chance? Is there a spell that can block a PPC?

Deatheaters wouldint stand a chance. Just send a madcat to stand outside malfoy mannor when theres a meeting on order an alpha strike then its game over for them

[Atlai]

Eximar, on 22 July 2012 - 08:11 AM, said:

Let's see. House elves are genderless and probably grown in vats, so yeah, I'll go with that.

Alright then, lets go with that.

[Scorpioneldar]

excuse me but wasn't this thread HP vs BT
so how can you make any arguments without basic knowledge of one of the 2 sides being debated about for exammple the only know forums of teleportation in HP verse are portkys which move an object from one place to another and are usualy used for group travel to potentialy unknown locations or apparition which is where one moves oneself (or someone touching him/her) from one place to another and requires a very good idea of where you are going so that you come out where you want to be, not inside something, and without leaving parts of you behind
thus the teleport a mech away while leaving piolt behind won't work cause anything being teleported tends to take anyone touching it along for the ride
it also takes more power to move bigger things or more people at once
using diffrent magic rules gets diffrent results for example most anime magics don't interfeer with electronics
HP magic doesn't need a dampening field because just high enough levels of ambient magic or a direct hit from it will fry most electronics
then again we never see hardened electronics in HP verse so we have no idea what effect magic would have on more hardended tech (like military's like to use
also it is possible that the electrical componants on a mech may be far enough inside that most spells wont effect such things cause most are stopped and dissipated (or explode violently if contact based physical force exerting spells like the blasting hex reducto or the cutting hex diffindo ) on even glancing contact with a solid object
by the way i have no idea if i spell the spells right or not there
without knowing things like mispronouncing a spell can conjure a water buffalo on you chest instead of levitating that rock(first charms class first lesson) how can you debate on this in the first place
when every time you teleport yourself you risk leaving a piece of yourself behind even under ideal conditions where you can stop can concentrate for a few seconds on yourself and you destination
where to cast the killing curse requires a desire to see your foe dead or the tourture curse requires that same kind of desire except that you wish them to suffer oh and righteous anger at someone who just killed someone you love right before your eyes is not enough you have to take pleasure in their pain (book five harry tries to hit Bellatrix with Crucio after she kills his godfather and she explains why it did not work) the intent not just the result is part of why these spells are called unforgivable
or how bout the fact that a tombstone can block nearly anything while only losing chips at a time (book 4 harry vs voldemort in graveyard) and that most people learn the ability to conjure in 6th year but that the larger and heavier the thing is you wish to make the harder more power and more concentration it takes to make it
many spells need a few seconds to cast and a complicated wand movement that can throw off aim as all spells eminate from the tip of a wand and ussualy travel in a straight line

though the personal combat ones seem to be point and cast (stunner, disarmer, killing curse)

[Reyge]

[Scorpioneldar]

LOL YES!

[Atlai]

Eximar, on 22 July 2012 - 08:11 AM, said:

Let's see. House elves are genderless and probably grown in vats, so yeah, I'll go with that.

No wait, they have genders.



Dont they

[Skadi]

[Markus Wilhelmsson]

i present you;

Dobby.

have fun while your Mech is apparated to the laurentian abyssal

[MustrumRidcully]

Pyrite, on 19 July 2012 - 06:28 AM, said:

Battletech vs. global warming

haha, double heatsinks for the win!

---

D&D Wizards depend on the edition - 3E overpowered mages would probably have some protective spells on, and don't forget ,they survive dragons breathing at them or Meteor Storm spells with the right defensive abilities.

Scry-Buff-Teleport is of course the superior tactical approach, which would allow to either attack the mech pilots in their barracks, or send the entire party and just treat the Battlemech like any other colosssal target. If you're unlucky and the DM rules that Battlemechs are objects, a single Disintegrate will rip 10 ft wide cubic holes in them ,which should probably be some serious damage to internal components.

Harry Potter magic may be outmatched. Sure, Death Curse always kills, but does that even work on a Battlemech? It most likely doesn't work on a guy 1,000m away behind a cockpit.

Edited by MustrumRidcully, 02 August 2012 - 05:35 AM.

[Adrian Carino]

This is a freaking awesome thread! However, for a battlemech to work around magic, it would have to be adapted to a magical signature. In the Harry Potter universe the reason a lot of magical families don't have much in the way of working electronics is because magic messes with the electrical flow. That being said magic could be used to disable a battlemech rather than kill it unless something was developed either magically or technologically to resist the effects of magic.

That is one of the nerdiest thing I have ever said.