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Possible To Make A Decent Warhammer Ppc Build?


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#1 Jun Watarase

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Posted 23 November 2016 - 03:16 PM

As title?

I thought the WHM-6R would be best for a PPC build, but it has the worst mobility quirks out of the 3 basic warhammer variants and it doesnt get much in return. It also the worst hardpoints and the least impressive weapon quirks.

I was using 2x PPCs, 4x ML, 21 DHS and a XL 325, but this build has major problems :-

-The 2x PPCs cant hurt anything at 540m, at that range the typical dakka builds or laser vomit builds will eat you alive if you try to trade shots

-Bringing the fight to 270m so that the med lasers can help out still results in an unimpressive 40 damage alpha (half of which is spread damage) and it runs too hot at that distance.

-The WHM-6R has the worst mobility quirks, which means it is the worst for peeking around corners.

-Most maps force you to fight well below 540m range, ranges at which other weapons like the LPL excel at.

-Putting the PPCs in the arms causes huge convergence issues, putting the MLs in the arms however means you get 2 wasted slots that you cant use for DHS, or anything of importance really.

-4 MLs are insufficient to defend you from anything except a really damaged mech within 90m.

I simply cannot deal enough damage as PPCs themselves are quite lackluster, and take far too much damage as the warhammer cannot reverse behind cover fast enough. The WHM-6R just seems like a really odd bag...the quirks are meant to encourage you to run PPCs, but the variant just doesn't have enough slots for backup weapons compared to the 6D or 7S. You dont have enough tonnage to run PPCs + ballistics to make use of the ballistic quirks (MGs do not count), 4 ML don't do much and the single missle hardpoint with no missile quirks is pretty much useless.

Im getting much more success simply not using PPCs on the 6D and 7S, but i was hoping to use PPCs on a warhammer. I cant make it work on the 6R at least, the huge cooldown on PPCs make it way too hard to do any decent damage compared to the usual LPL/LL/AC spam.

Anyone had better luck?

#2 Steel Raven

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Posted 23 November 2016 - 04:43 PM

You listed a few things that rubbed me the wrong way when the mech dropped considering the Warhammer has always been a PPC platform (doesn't help PPCs in MWO are wonkey to begin with) it doesn't help that the 6R has slightly lower energy mounts than the 6D and 7S. While I had some success with the 2X PPC, 4X ML 6R build, the 6D and S7 handle energy builds better.

That said, the 2X Ultra 5, 2X PPC is currently the most popular build for the 6R utilizing both the high ballistic mounts and quirks for both ballistics and PPC. More or less a 70 ton Fire Brand.
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...64c7b8ea05e456a
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...6ef0ebe48cb9b8a

I personally had allot of fun with the Quad PPC build, it's possible the best IS mech to mount multiple PPCs since the TDR-9S Lightingbolt was nerfed
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...0e1e8d16ee12a2b

#3 Jun Watarase

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Posted 23 November 2016 - 06:01 PM

I did consider running 2x AC 5 or UAC5s on the WHM-6R, but that would require me to drop down to a XL 300 engine and without the 2x efficiency bonus, would probably be too slow.

I initially looked at the marauder for a PPC mech, but the hardpoints were even worse than the warhammer (3 slot PPC + 1 slot laser = 2 left over slots without being able to fit in another DHS).

#4 Steel Raven

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Posted 23 November 2016 - 09:42 PM

The arm mounts on the Marauder actually do very well (which makes the arm mounts on the Warhammer and Cataphract that that much more disappointing. The Marauder is proof you can get it right)

#5 Jun Watarase

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Posted 26 November 2016 - 05:57 PM

They arent as low hanging as the warhammer, but they have the problem of leftover slots i mentioned.

#6 Steel Raven

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Posted 26 November 2016 - 06:28 PM

I have seen 4X PPC 3X machine gun builds for a Mad but you don't need to fill every slot to make a good build. Plenty of Warhamers with no weapons in the arms.

That said, making a good PPCs is going to be tough because the PPC has so many small problems. The projectiles are huge so it's easy for a hilltop or hidden wall to clip your shot, slow so it's easy to dodge a single shot and hot so allot of tonnage is going to heat sinks.

Ended up trading in the PPCs on my Warhammer for a pair of Ultra AC 5 and 6X ML. While I hate not having PPCs on any of my Warhammers, it's a more effective build on hot maps.

#7 Jun Watarase

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Posted 26 November 2016 - 06:43 PM

Yea, PPCs just arent very effective in their current state compared to dakka or laser vomit. I find them fun to use though.

I ended up using a weird build of 2x PPCs, 4 MPL, endo-steel, XL 325 and a command consolee. The PPCs in the side torsos to avoid the low hanging arms problem. The command console makes zoom a lot more effective which is nice.

#8 Steel Raven

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Posted 26 November 2016 - 07:22 PM

Had a similar build, it is satisfying when those PPCs hit the target. Hope you have fun running it Posted Image

#9 justcallme A S H

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Posted 28 November 2016 - 06:02 AM

cERPPCs are great.

IS PPCs just flat out suck IMO. I tried for a week with them, couldn't really make it work. You walk outta a game thinking it was a 500-600dmg game only to find it's 300-400dmg at best and you really have to be a great aim to get that component strip where a Clan one with the extra DMG just makes such a difference.

#10 Aramuside

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Posted 28 November 2016 - 02:08 PM

View Postjustcallme A S H, on 28 November 2016 - 06:02 AM, said:

cERPPCs are great.

IS PPCs just flat out suck IMO. I tried for a week with them, couldn't really make it work. You walk outta a game thinking it was a 500-600dmg game only to find it's 300-400dmg at best and you really have to be a great aim to get that component strip where a Clan one with the extra DMG just makes such a difference.


That doesn't make much sense. None of the PPC's are component strippers. Even Clan ER PPC's are valued for their single point damage. The spread damage which gives 10 +2.5 to 5 pts is not good. I guarantee every clan pilot would instantly swap it for say 12.5 to one location (rounded up to 13 of course!). Posted Image

#11 S 0 L E N Y A

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Posted 28 November 2016 - 03:41 PM

Clan PPCs have been quite strong for a while, IS ones, not so much.

If you are going to use std IS PPCs then you are all but forced to use them on a mech that has considerable PPC velocity quirks, such as the Whammy 6R.


The UAC5/PPC combo on the 6R is still pretty good. Not quite as good pre-UAC nerf, but still viable.

#12 justcallme A S H

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Posted 28 November 2016 - 05:00 PM

View PostAramuside, on 28 November 2016 - 02:08 PM, said:


That doesn't make much sense. None of the PPC's are component strippers. Even Clan ER PPC's are valued for their single point damage. The spread damage which gives 10 +2.5 to 5 pts is not good. I guarantee every clan pilot would instantly swap it for say 12.5 to one location (rounded up to 13 of course!). Posted Image


What?

You cant aim a dual cERPPC into an open component and strip it off? I can... I do it regularly in my SHC.

#13 Aramuside

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Posted 29 November 2016 - 01:32 AM

View Postjustcallme A S H, on 28 November 2016 - 05:00 PM, said:


What?

You cant aim a dual cERPPC into an open component and strip it off? I can... I do it regularly in my SHC.


The point of all PPC's is to take out your target with minimal damage to yourself as fast as possibly. Poptarting and peeping. Unless you're wasting your time stripping afk or dc mechs you should be nailing them usually with 1 component per kill unless its a light when you take out both its legs. You REALLY shouldn't be spending ages aiming for a single open area when you could be minimising damage to yourself by using cover, relocating and maintaining range. That said I don't have any trouble using PPC's and IS ER PPC's so perhaps its a playstyle thing.

#14 Steel Raven

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Posted 29 November 2016 - 10:41 AM

PPC's will always suffer as long as we have a group of players who complain about PPC snipers. It's still 10 points of damage regardless though it's still backwards that people are replacing PPCs with AC/5s.

#15 Jun Watarase

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Posted 30 November 2016 - 03:51 AM

Ive tried clan ER PPCs before, but they are just way too hot (this was without quirks). The extra range without a corresponding increase in velocity is also very meh, especially with the firing delay that you have at 250+ms. At 600m and below, clan LPLs are better IMHO.

One thing i did notice about PPCs was that because you cant fire them fast enough, you often just soften them up for someone else to kill. There is a massive disparity of rewards, you can hit someone with 4 or 5 volleys (which takes a very long time since they won't be standing out in the open) and all you will get is a kill assist as someone else with a laser vomit build kills them in one alpha or they get outflanked while hiding behind a rock. You most likely wont even get the saviour kill bonus.

#16 justcallme A S H

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Posted 30 November 2016 - 04:48 AM

View PostAramuside, on 29 November 2016 - 01:32 AM, said:


The point of all PPC's is to take out your target with minimal damage to yourself as fast as possibly. Poptarting and peeping. Unless you're wasting your time stripping afk or dc mechs you should be nailing them usually with 1 component per kill unless its a light when you take out both its legs. You REALLY shouldn't be spending ages aiming for a single open area when you could be minimising damage to yourself by using cover, relocating and maintaining range. That said I don't have any trouble using PPC's and IS ER PPC's so perhaps its a playstyle thing.



No idea how you play... But I pay attention to the paperdoll BEFORE I appear. Not just appear and hit a CT by default.

So when I do appear, I know exactly where I am aiming to make the shots the most valuable. If there is a mech with a open torso, it's going to come off the majority of the time or crit the weapons and duck back into cover.

That's a PPC sniper.

Put me in a ERPPC WHK, then the trouble starts as 40 points to the same component, you're gonna have a bad day. If you're still there 3.5 sec later, it's coming off. I can land most shots decently at 900m+ with ease.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 30 November 2016 - 04:50 AM.


#17 Steel Raven

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Posted 01 December 2016 - 12:28 PM

The extra damage helps the Clan ER PPC regardless. It may never do Gauss damage only because PGI doesn't want it to compete with Gauss, same reason the standard PPC doesn't have the same velocity as the AC/5 (not how I would choose to balance it but I don't own the game studio or need to deal with angry players who hate snipers)

#18 Rear Admiral Tier 6

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Posted 12 December 2016 - 05:22 AM

i run my Battlemaster hero sometimes with 2 ppcs,2 lpl,always alphastriking and hillhumping,it might work in WHM-6R and 6D due to the quirks,XL engine is required

#19 rolly

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Posted 12 December 2016 - 07:15 AM

Hmm... thanks for posting this.

I too have a problem with the Warhammer, though I'm also a lore buff and I have certain criteria with running my mechs. The Warhammer is no exception. So yea, PPCs I do use them on two of the three Warhammers I have. I do find that they work, but they aren't really the kill weapon.

I keep the 6R as a museum piece but upgrade it to Clan Invasion spec : erPPC, 2xMPL, MG and 2xSm.L and 2xMGs and a SRM-6. Its amusing, not very effective, but opening up with everything except the PPC's at short range is fun.

You're also right, 4 ML doesn't do it anymore. However 7 ML and 2xerPPC now THAT works for me on the WHR-6D.

Really my thinking, is that I don't use the erPPC's for killing. I use them for suppression and blasting armour off. I don't have to spend much time ducking back since the erPPC's do the fire suppression for me. The real killpower comes from the pinpoin 7xML. Properly supported with a fantastic random team, last night I got 3/7 and 476 damage last night. I do keep them in the arms since the added fire arc has helped in several instances that a torso mount wouldn't help. Ie. Suppressing mechs on ridges or jumping lights.

As for the quirks - I really don't care about them since Quirks come and go.

Edited by rolly, 12 December 2016 - 07:44 AM.


#20 rolly

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Posted 12 December 2016 - 07:46 AM

View PostJun Watarase, on 30 November 2016 - 03:51 AM, said:

One thing i did notice about PPCs was that because you cant fire them fast enough, you often just soften them up for someone else to kill. There is a massive disparity of rewards, you can hit someone with 4 or 5 volleys (which takes a very long time since they won't be standing out in the open) and all you will get is a kill assist as someone else with a laser vomit build kills them in one alpha or they get outflanked while hiding behind a rock. You most likely wont even get the saviour kill bonus.


This is where the PPC's are useful. You pound them with the PPC's and suppress and then Alpha (or in this case Beta strike) with all your secondary weapons. With the coming patch, those MG's on the 6R are going to be quite handy slaved to all those lasers and the SRM6.

Even then the PPC's up the damage and get you closer to getting KMDD.

Edited by rolly, 12 December 2016 - 07:47 AM.






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