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Grind Xp Trick


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#21 Tremendous Upside

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Posted 06 December 2016 - 11:37 AM

View PostDrxAbstract, on 06 December 2016 - 11:26 AM, said:

Sounds like a Mech Balance issue, not a Pilot Tree one. Except you're under the impression said sub-par Mechs being elited with modules under the current system actually matters - it doesn't. Even some Meta Mechs will go the way of the dodo with the loss of their quirks... Who's to say the current sub-optimal builds wont start shining with the new tree though, as it will allow customization to their strengths rather than the current quirk system with its pigeon-holed design resulting in feast-or-famine results based entirely upon the flavor of the month.


I don't think that's his point. It's that he's "put" the time in on all of the mechs he's elited/mastered. If the new system goes in and requires far more XP to get the best results, he's only going to be able to skill up a fraction of what he has now. Plain and simple. I know for me, I have ~20,000 drops and around 125 mechs. If it takes 750,000XP to master just one through it's trees, I'll be lucky to have 20 done with a straight 1 to 1 conversion. That's IF I get refunded for mechs I no longer own... No two ways about it - that sucks.

If PGI really wanted to be smart with this, they'd create a conversion scenario that ENCOURAGES you to buy new mechs - and ones you've owned and sold back. Elited/mastered mechs would get equivalent unlocks in the new system, but with the ability to throw your leftover points into what you want. That'd make them money. A grind increased by orders of magnitude (and on "content" you already own) wont...

#22 El Bandito

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Posted 06 December 2016 - 11:56 AM

View PostDrxAbstract, on 06 December 2016 - 11:26 AM, said:

Sounds like a Mech Balance issue, not a Pilot Tree one. Except you're under the impression said sub-par Mechs being elited with modules under the current system actually matters - it doesn't. Even some Meta Mechs will go the way of the dodo with the loss of their quirks... Who's to say the current sub-optimal builds wont start shining with the new tree though, as it will allow customization to their strengths rather than the current quirk system with its pigeon-holed design resulting in feast-or-famine results based entirely upon the flavor of the month.



Except from what I have seen from the new skill tree, it guarantees that best mechs remain the best (mostly Clan mechs), while the lesser mechs will remain lesser. And the new skill tree is also guaranteed to encourage min-maxing even more than before.

#23 DrxAbstract

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Posted 06 December 2016 - 12:53 PM

View PostTremendous Upside, on 06 December 2016 - 11:37 AM, said:

I don't think that's his point. It's that he's "put" the time in on all of the mechs he's elited/mastered. If the new system goes in and requires far more XP to get the best results, he's only going to be able to skill up a fraction of what he has now. Plain and simple. I know for me, I have ~20,000 drops and around 125 mechs. If it takes 750,000XP to master just one through it's trees, I'll be lucky to have 20 done with a straight 1 to 1 conversion. That's IF I get refunded for mechs I no longer own... No two ways about it - that sucks.

Bandito believes that his sub-optimal Mechs not being 'Maxed Out' somehow makes them un- sub-optimal in some magical way, despite the fact they're still sub-optimal with maxed out skill trees... Am I the only one seeing the redundancy of that?

His point, boiled down, is that his sub-optimal Mastered Mechs will possibly continue to be sub-optimal while requiring more effort than before just to remain... sub-optimal. Again, that's a pretty redundant issue to raise here as it's got literally nothing to do with Skill Trees and everything to do with Weapon Balance, Mech Geometry, Hardpoint Count/Location/Type and a fluctuating Meta as a result of it.

Mech Balance issue, not a Skill Tree one... i.e. Those Mechs relied on Quirks to function, ergo the real problem existed long before.


View PostEl Bandito, on 06 December 2016 - 11:56 AM, said:

Except from what I have seen from the new skill tree, it guarantees that best mechs remain the best (mostly Clan mechs), while the lesser mechs will remain lesser. And the new skill tree is also guaranteed to encourage min-maxing even more than before.


It's no different than a lot of games where leveling up is a requisite form of advancing; Some classes/builds suck at low level while dominating the end-game because a few percents of specific stats from the right gear make stars align for fantastic results--You can't ignore the possibility the skill trees allow previously underwhelming chassis/variants (There are obvious exceptions) to become extremely useful in some roles. Yes, some Mechs will be just as borked as they always have been, but given the sheer number of options in the new tree and the inability to select all the greatest attributes, suggesting the current best Mechs will be even better while Quirk-reliant and underdog Mechs will suffer is really premature.

That you feel your underwhelming Mechs not being 'maximized' has any real contributing effect on their mediocrity is a personal delusion PGI can't fix for you. What PGI can do is address the inter-class and inter-chassis imbalance that results from the previously mentioned factors.

Do I suspect Clans are going to absolutely stomp the crap out of IS after the new tree launch? Yes, yes I do... Again, it's premature. Do I think 750,000 XP per Mech is excessive? Yes, I do... And again, it's premature to assume that figure will remain fixed or the XP system wont be revamped to reflect the comparably massive increase in demand. I'm also in the same boat as you - A lot of my fun Mechs have paltry XP counts compared to the ones I've used extensively, then there's another consideration to be made: What about my former dear hearts? My JR7-D and F, or FS9-A, which collectively have 10+ Million XP banked but havn't been touched in years due to shoddy Balancing on PGI's part... What about those?

I think PGI should dump Invested XP/GXP and Banked Mech XP into the GXP pool, lower the Skill Tree XP requirement to 400-500k at most and convert 10-20% of the XP overflow into GXP free of charge.

#24 L3mming2

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Posted 06 December 2016 - 02:10 PM

View PostDrxAbstract, on 06 December 2016 - 12:53 PM, said:



It's no different than a lot of games where leveling up is a requisite form of advancing; Some classes/builds suck at low level while dominating the end-game because a few percents of specific stats from the right gear make stars align for fantastic results--You can't ignore the possibility the skill trees allow previously underwhelming chassis/variants (There are obvious exceptions) to become extremely useful in some roles.


so the new system would make those mechs totaly OP and UP at the same time... this game is no MMORPG where most of the fighting is PvE (co op) a system that makes u fight 100's of maches in a very UP mech PvP ore grants OP mechs fore those willing to pay MC (to skill up faster) ore have huge amounts of legasy XP. is bad will drive a load of players away who are stuck with the UP mechs, and evenualy kill the game's player base ...

#25 DrxAbstract

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Posted 06 December 2016 - 03:03 PM

View PostL3mming2, on 06 December 2016 - 02:10 PM, said:

so the new system would make those mechs totaly OP and UP at the same time... this game is no MMORPG where most of the fighting is PvE (co op) a system that makes u fight 100's of maches in a very UP mech PvP ore grants OP mechs fore those willing to pay MC (to skill up faster) ore have huge amounts of legasy XP. is bad will drive a load of players away who are stuck with the UP mechs, and evenualy kill the game's player base ...


There are parallels across all game genres and mediums, so yes, MWO isn't a MMORPG, except it shares some fundamental elements with it, as it does other game types. People's reactions to changes, the effects of some mechanics and solutions to issues can be extrapolated by taking the collective information made available from nearly 3 decades of online gaming and applied, with great success, to the further development of games.

Playing hundreds of matches in underpowered Mechs is no different than playing hundreds of matches with an undergeared character - The conditions and goals are fundamentally the same. In that sense Bandito, for example, is saying he's going to be discouraged from playing his undergeared character because it'll take too much time/effort for too-little a reward, which is a position he has taken based on information that is more than likely inaccurate, with limited availability of from-the-source details.

People are going off the rails with predictions and, in some cases, wildly exaggerated claims based on minimal info... When has that ever worked out well? All I'm doing is cautioning against giving yourselves a heart attack with this worry-mongering - It's too early to make any assertions as to what may/will happen.

#26 El Bandito

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Posted 06 December 2016 - 06:31 PM

View PostDrxAbstract, on 06 December 2016 - 03:03 PM, said:

People are going off the rails with predictions and, in some cases, wildly exaggerated claims based on minimal info... When has that ever worked out well? All I'm doing is cautioning against giving yourselves a heart attack with this worry-mongering - It's too early to make any assertions as to what may/will happen.


PGI can tweak the XP values during the PTS test, but what really needs to happen is for PGI to get their fingers out of their bunholes and balance base tech between IS and Clans. Or this skill tree is gonna be just as ineffective at curbing Clan superiority as quirks did.

Edited by El Bandito, 06 December 2016 - 06:47 PM.


#27 DrxAbstract

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Posted 07 December 2016 - 10:25 PM

View PostEl Bandito, on 06 December 2016 - 06:31 PM, said:


PGI can tweak the XP values during the PTS test, but what really needs to happen is for PGI to get their fingers out of their bunholes and balance base tech between IS and Clans. Or this skill tree is gonna be just as ineffective at curbing Clan superiority as quirks did.

I'm assuming you've read the vague supplemental posts from Paul concerning how this specific subject is going to be handled... Pretty curious.

#28 vettie

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Posted 08 December 2016 - 12:34 AM

View PostBombast, on 06 December 2016 - 08:41 AM, said:


Then again, maybe the buckets will rectify the problem.


Question - If your mech is in one of these 'buckets', does the 'bucket' provide extra armour/protection? just wondering....

#29 El Bandito

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Posted 08 December 2016 - 01:54 AM

View PostDrxAbstract, on 07 December 2016 - 10:25 PM, said:

I'm assuming you've read the vague supplemental posts from Paul concerning how this specific subject is going to be handled... Pretty curious.



I know for certain that upcoming patch has nothing mentioned about base tech balance. Which means I know this skill tree system is gonna be just another bandage. And all bandages so far had been failure, as long the the base tech is not balanced. It is not rocket science.

#30 Vellron2005

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Posted 08 December 2016 - 03:13 AM

Guys, chill.. Russ said that the grind time to master a mech will be about the same as it is now..

#31 Xetelian

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Posted 08 December 2016 - 03:31 AM

Aren't the skill trees going to be unique to each individual mech? Like 4 JM6-DDs would have 4 separate trees, one for each?


So if I wanted one JM6 DD with 10% AC5 cooldown and another JM6 DD with 10% UAC5 range I could do that?

Either way, loading a drop deck out with 4 of the same mech is not likely to get you any more per hour than just taking each mech out and exiting as soon as you die then jumping in another.





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