31 replies to this topic

[KoalaBrownie]

For those who were/watched MechCon, is PSR getting revised?

Just got out of a match where I literally won the game for my team, captured 5 points on conquest, was the last mech alive. Near end of game, enemy team captured all the points and I recapped Kappa to win the game and after the match, my pilot rating stays the same. Did look at my match score but it was probably garbage. Why because I only did 35 damage and only 1 Kill Assist.

If it's skirmish and I do 35 damage / 1 KA then sure drop my score but 5 caps on Conquest, last man alive?

[Vxheous]

KoalaBrownie, on 07 December 2016 - 11:07 PM, said:

For those who were/watched MechCon, is PSR getting revised?

Just got out of a match where I literally won the game for my team, captured 5 points on conquest, was the last mech alive. Near end of game, enemy team captured all the points and I recapped Kappa to win the game and after the match, my pilot rating stays the same. Did look at my match score but it was probably garbage. Why because I only did 35 damage and only 1 Kill Assist.

If it's skirmish and I do 35 damage / 1 KA then sure drop my score but 5 caps on Conquest, last man alive?

Conquest doesn't mean you just run around non-stop and cap cap cap cap cap cap cap. Check out how the MWOWC finals were played, all on conquest. Capping Nodes is map control, to force your opponent into fighting in situations/positions that they wouldn't want to. If you do no damage, your rating's not going to go up.

[Lyoto Machida]

Generally, you kill and then cap. Otherwise, their deathball just rolls over your team one by one.

But more to your topic, blame PGI for setting up the match score to favor damage and not supporting actions like spotting, capping, etc.

[Remains Intact]

PSR is a terrible system that needs to be gutted for something more elegant and thought out. Ideally some sort of zero sum rating system that doesn't inevitably place everyone in t1. Maybe something that gives a player a queue specific rating over time (solo/group/CW) that is modified in part by a chassis rating (an expert assault pilot might be worthless in most light mechs and vice versa).

[Paigan]

PSR up- or downrating depends on the win and your match score.
E.g. 250+ match score on a loss lets you stay even. 400+ (i think) lets you go up despite a loss.

And match score is determined by like 90% out of the raw damage you make, regardless of anything else.

The highest score can be made by LRM-spraying inconsequential damage accross all enemy mechs without doing any significant help for the team.

Also see my signature link.

[KoalaBrownie]

Vxheous Kerensky, on 07 December 2016 - 11:17 PM, said:

Conquest doesn't mean you just run around non-stop and cap cap cap cap cap cap cap. Check out how the MWOWC finals were played, all on conquest. Capping Nodes is map control, to force your opponent into fighting in situations/positions that they wouldn't want to. If you do no damage, your rating's not going to go up.

Conquest doesn't mean you cap one point and then go get yourself killed either which is what 90% of players do. Ironically, at the end of that game, I was with another guy in a Centurion and he chased some guy across the map, then he stopped to shoot at a disconnected guy and then at the end he ran off and attacked a guy and got killed while I took the last objective that won us the game. And after the match, I bet his pilot rating went up. Even though if I had likewise adopted his strategy we'd have lost the game.

Either way the main question is were changes announced to PSR at Mechcon, apparently none of the people who responded know.

Edited by KoalaBrownie, 08 December 2016 - 10:10 AM.

[Chuck Jager]

PSR does not take into account your wins and losses in specific mechs/weights or loadouts when they make the match. Not all mechs/builds have the same average impact in a match (over 100 matches).

Most games have issues with MM

[Jman5]

Unfortunately matchscore doesn't weigh objectives enough which is a shame. This is especially egregious because the act of capping usually removes you from a lot of the other stuff that gets you matchscore (damage, kills, etc).

Domination is even worse. You get nothing for being in the circle as it counts down. You get little to nothing for taking out those trucks, and you get nothing for being the only one on your team holding the circle from the other team. It's so unbelievably frustrating playing Domination on Grim Plexus and having to spend 1/3 of the match just holding the circle while my team all stands outside it. And if I step out and leave it to them, it just causes them all to eventually panic, rush into the open and get us all killed. sigh...

Objectives are so frustrating in this game. If everyone on your team completely ignores them you can very quickly lose the game. If you take it on yourself to stay on top of them, you get a crummy match score. Even sadder is a lot of people in this community will claim capping is a waste of time. They never realize that in many of these games where capping "didn't matter" it's only because there was 1 hero on their team who single handedly kept the cap-race manageable for them while they poke-traded for 5 minutes.

Edited by Jman5, 08 December 2016 - 12:42 PM.

[KoalaBrownie]

Well I noticed they recently changed conquest so that the game continues even if one entire team is killed, preventing a team from simply destroying the enemy and ignoring the objectives.

But match objectives certainly need to be better valued, they would increase the score & experience of light mechs. I think light&medium mechs are already under-rewarded, as rewards like flanking, hit&run or spotting seem less frequent than something like "lance in formation", or "proximity protection" which is doled out for simply staying in a group.

[Dimento Graven]

KoalaBrownie, on 08 December 2016 - 12:26 PM, said:

Well I noticed they recently changed conquest so that the game continues even if one entire team is killed, preventing a team from simply destroying the enemy and ignoring the objectives.

But match objectives certainly need to be better valued, they would increase the score & experience of light mechs. I think light&medium mechs are already under-rewarded, as rewards like flanking, hit&run or spotting seem less frequent than something like "lance in formation", or "proximity protection" which is doled out for simply staying in a group.

As far as a PSR value, it's minimal, but I seem to recall the CBILL value is quite high...

[QuantumButler]

KoalaBrownie, on 07 December 2016 - 11:07 PM, said:

For those who were/watched MechCon, is PSR getting revised?

Just got out of a match where I literally won the game for my team, captured 5 points on conquest, was the last mech alive. Near end of game, enemy team captured all the points and I recapped Kappa to win the game and after the match, my pilot rating stays the same. Did look at my match score but it was probably garbage. Why because I only did 35 damage and only 1 Kill Assist.

If it's skirmish and I do 35 damage / 1 KA then sure drop my score but 5 caps on Conquest, last man alive?

>Implying it's possible to fix MM in MWO

[Vxheous]

KoalaBrownie, on 08 December 2016 - 12:26 PM, said:

Well I noticed they recently changed conquest so that the game continues even if one entire team is killed, preventing a team from simply destroying the enemy and ignoring the objectives.

But match objectives certainly need to be better valued, they would increase the score & experience of light mechs. I think light&medium mechs are already under-rewarded, as rewards like flanking, hit&run or spotting seem less frequent than something like "lance in formation", or "proximity protection" which is doled out for simply staying in a group.

Depends on how you build your light and medium mechs. Good players have no issues doing 300+ damage (Note that 300 damage is pretty average) with Lights/mediums and still take/hold objectives (this would both give you the damage score needed, and give you the objective play that you're looking for)

Edited by Vxheous Kerensky, 08 December 2016 - 06:19 PM.

[PhoenixFire55]

What do you mean by PSR getting fixed?
PSR is Working as Intended^TM.
Elo 2.0 before that was also Working as Intended^TM.
Elo 1.0 before that was also Working as Intended^TM.

Dude, you are on an Island^TM.

[/sarcasm]
[/salt]

[TWIAFU]

Lyoto Machida, on 07 December 2016 - 11:21 PM, said:

Generally, you kill and then cap. Otherwise, their deathball just rolls over your team one by one.

But more to your topic, blame PGI for setting up the match score to favor damage and not supporting actions like spotting, capping, etc.

Then they should reduce the amount of points you get for match score for damage done. By half at least if not more.

Then increase point gained toward match score for teamwork action by at least a quarter if not half.

[KoalaBrownie]

Vxheous Kerensky, on 08 December 2016 - 06:18 PM, said:

Depends on how you build your light and medium mechs. Good players have no issues doing 300+ damage (Note that 300 damage is pretty average) with Lights/mediums and still take/hold objectives (this would both give you the damage score needed, and give you the objective play that you're looking for)

PSR shouldn't be dependent on damage in certain game modes. Simple as that.

When I played Call of Duty for example, I typically had a fairly crap KDR but in a game mode like Kill Confirmed where you not only needed to kill the enemy, but to collect their dog tags when they died, I would be top of my team's leaderboard because I'd grab the tags while other players on my team would camp and snipe, and the game was smart enough to assign points based on the game mode.

Conquest should be the same thing. Your team wins by collecting resources, you should be assigned points not even based on how many points you captured but instead on how many points your team gets through points you captured. Damage is pretty irrelevant in that game, as destroying the enemy is secondary to capturing resources.

The way points are awarded should differ by game type. Conquest should be about capping, Skirmish about doing damage, Domination and Assault in the middle.

In Domination for example, how many idiots destroy the objectives before the enemy has even reduced the clock? You should be rewarded based on the impact of your actions. If you destroying the objective adds 15 seconds to enemy clock, full marks. If it adds 0, then 0 marks.

[Lyoto Machida]

KoalaBrownie, on 09 December 2016 - 05:57 PM, said:

PSR shouldn't be dependent on damage in certain game modes. Simple as that.

When I played Call of Duty for example, I typically had a fairly crap KDR but in a game mode like Kill Confirmed where you not only needed to kill the enemy, but to collect their dog tags when they died, I would be top of my team's leaderboard because I'd grab the tags while other players on my team would camp and snipe, and the game was smart enough to assign points based on the game mode.

Conquest should be the same thing. Your team wins by collecting resources, you should be assigned points not even based on how many points you captured but instead on how many points your team gets through points you captured. Damage is pretty irrelevant in that game, as destroying the enemy is secondary to capturing resources.

The way points are awarded should differ by game type. Conquest should be about capping, Skirmish about doing damage, Domination and Assault in the middle.

In Domination for example, how many idiots destroy the objectives before the enemy has even reduced the clock? You should be rewarded based on the impact of your actions. If you destroying the objective adds 15 seconds to enemy clock, full marks. If it adds 0, then 0 marks.

That's great and all but you need to get on twitter if you want something done about it...not post here and commiserate with other players. This isn't the venue to get stuff changed in the game.

You're also comparing a game studio like Infinity Ward/Treyarch to PGI. There's a difference here and it has nothing to do with money.

[Evil Goof]

KoalaBrownie, on 07 December 2016 - 11:07 PM, said:

For those who were/watched MechCon, is PSR getting revised?

Just got out of a match where I literally won the game for my team, captured 5 points on conquest, was the last mech alive. Near end of game, enemy team captured all the points and I recapped Kappa to win the game and after the match, my pilot rating stays the same. Did look at my match score but it was probably garbage. Why because I only did 35 damage and only 1 Kill Assist.

If it's skirmish and I do 35 damage / 1 KA then sure drop my score but 5 caps on Conquest, last man alive?

I personally think that pulling off a cheezy victory where it is only a cap game, that this is working as intended. Maybe I am wrong but I don't think the game mode is intended to reinforce no fighting and just capping. That if you win by not only caps but damaging your enemy more than they damaged you, you get the win and the move up. If you only cap you get some cbills but since you only played half of the game you don't go up.

[RestosIII]

All I know about the PSR system is that it highly overestimates how good I am at this game. I appreciate it believing I'm a top tier player, but if it would just ask all the kind folks who have to play with me, it would learn that I'm not a top tier player. I'm a bad player. Stop raising my PSR bar.

[Lyoto Machida]

Evil Goof, on 09 December 2016 - 06:16 PM, said:

I personally think that pulling off a cheezy victory where it is only a cap game, that this is working as intended. Maybe I am wrong but I don't think the game mode is intended to reinforce no fighting and just capping. That if you win by not only caps but damaging your enemy more than they damaged you, you get the win and the move up. If you only cap you get some cbills but since you only played half of the game you don't go up.

This game generally revolves around mech combat...most people don't like standing around in a box. Don't get me wrong...I like playing conquest myself because the c-bill rewards are nice and there is a better chance of smaller scale engagements instead of just rolling around in deathballs. But deathballing is usually the best way (early in the match) to play conquest also, unless you end up on a large map like Polar...kill everyone on the enemy side and then cap without opposition.

[Mawai]

Vxheous Kerensky, on 07 December 2016 - 11:17 PM, said:

Conquest doesn't mean you just run around non-stop and cap cap cap cap cap cap cap. Check out how the MWOWC finals were played, all on conquest. Capping Nodes is map control, to force your opponent into fighting in situations/positions that they wouldn't want to. If you do no damage, your rating's not going to go up.

I think the point he is making is that he won the game for his team but the effectiveness of his play was not reflected in the PSR score awarded.

You can look at it two ways. As you mention, capping can be used to try to manipulate the other team to attack or defend a particular cap point. However, usually it doesn't work that way. Each side tends to grab two or three and then goes hunting the opponents usually in a deathball.

In addition, the game can be won solely on checkpoint possession so playing for a cap win is a valid strategy in both conquest and assault game modes. However, the scoring system does not reward the game play needed to win by capping ... it only rewards conflict based game play and not strategic play.

So his comments about the failings of PSR are justified. On the other hand, PSR is just a bad system for far more reasons than just this one