10 replies to this topic

[Tralik]

I just want to express my disappointment with the decision to reduce the capability of the Gauss Rifle in tomorrow's patch. I believe this is a prime example of fixing something that wasn't broken. The charge mechanic, long refire rate, High tonnage and slot requirements and propensity to crit when hit all made using Gauss rifles a fun, but challenging aspect of the game that took skill to master.

The trade-off was excellent damage at range with no heat if you could master the firing mechanic. Now, there will be little point in taking a weapon so vulnerable to destruction when its max range is shorter than numerous other weapons in the game like the ERPPC, ERLL's, AC2's and LB 10-x AC's. Why would anyone now load a Gauss, which requires more tonnage and ammo, than ERPPC's, which have no firing mechanic, longer range, require no ammo, and don't blow up when sneezed upon?

You have over-nerfed these weapons. Their sole quality that made them useful was their range advantage. It required players to maintain that range advantage to use them to their full potential. This helped break-up the murder-ball style gameplay that is so pervasive (and redundant) and actually brought some strategy and strategic maneuvering and positioning to the game, along with the required skill to aim them effectively.

The current nerf just further emphasizes boating energy weapons and LRM's as the "meta" and reduces variety and strategy. I struggle to understand why PGI would seek to reinforce the negative boating characteristics of lasers and lrm's over having a variety of specialized but useful alternative weapon systems. Please reconsider.

[Void Angel]

Heat and pinpoint. That's why you use Gauss Rifles. It's always been heat and frontloaded damage (particularly for Clans,) combined with long range and space.

If you don't treat this aspect of Gauss balance - that a weapon which deals damage with a minimal investment in the primary limiting factor of weapons fire can also deal 10 points of pinpoint damage outside the range of an ERPPC - your argument is incomplete.

[Tralik]

Void Angel, on 12 December 2016 - 12:46 PM, said:

Heat and pinpoint. That's why you use Gauss Rifles. It's always been heat and frontloaded damage (particularly for Clans,) combined with long range and space.

If you don't treat this aspect of Gauss balance - that a weapon which deals damage with a minimal investment in the primary limiting factor of weapons fire can also deal 10 points of pinpoint damage outside the range of an ERPPC - your argument is incomplete.

That's a fair argument, but it also overlooks the undeniable fact that this ranged damage is well mitigated through other means outside of heat already, namely through a ballistic projectile that requires skill to lead a target, paired with a difficult firing mechanic. So while it is capable of doing good damage at range with no heat, that is not guaranteed unless it is a stationary target.

[Void Angel]

Mitigated by drawbacks does not mean balanced. I mean, Fear had the drawback in WoW that it could break if the Warlock did too much damage - but the short recast and amazing damage and supporting options available to the 'Lock meant that in practice they were the undisputed kings of PvP for a long time.

Personally, I hope they get Energy Draw off the ground soon, and simply eliminate the Gauss Rifle's charge mechanic, which I find to be terribly cumbersome and at odds with the intended role of the weapon, despite the degree to which it can be mitigated by skill.

[Wintersdark]

Tralik, on 12 December 2016 - 01:44 PM, said:

That's a fair argument, but it also overlooks the undeniable fact that this ranged damage is well mitigated through other means outside of heat already, namely through a ballistic projectile that requires skill to lead a target, paired with a difficult firing mechanic. So while it is capable of doing good damage at range with no heat, that is not guaranteed unless it is a stationary target.

The charge mechanic is annoying (and I'd love to see it gone again) but it's not difficult. As well, lead times on a Gauss Rifle are minimal - it's so fast it's very close to being a hitscan weapon. On the other hand, the ERPPC bolts are far slower and required much more leading, and as such can be actively dodged at range whereas the Gauss Rifle cannot be dodged. 2000m/s vs 1300m/s is a HUGE difference.

Then, of course, heat. Heat is non-trivial; an ERPPC generates a vast amount of heat severely limiting your damage output.

The Gauss Rifle being just 1 heat is able to be paired with other weapons without cutting into your heat capacity. This makes the Gauss Rifle a unique weapon for increasing damage output, particularly in PPFLD damage. Got a brace of Large Pulse Lasers? You could add an ERPPC, but you're probably already at heatcap so you'd be firing the lasers OR the ERPPC instead of the lasers AND the ERPPC. Likewise with gauss+erppc.

A problem this game has struggled with since day one is not "Why should I use gauss?" but rather "Why should I use anything BUT gauss if it's an option?" And that simply because it's a heavy, accurate PPFLD blow at zero heat.


Lets compare it, IS side, to an AC10.

The IS Gauss Rifle is 3 tons heavier, but the same size. It does 50% more damage per hit, has an optimal range roughly 50% further, the shell travels twice as fast, while the GR can explode, it's ammo is safe and an excellent critpadder, and the Gauss Rifle converts heat to damage roughly 4.5 times more efficiently than the AC10. If you're using anything other than the ballistic, then that heat to damage conversion is what really limits damage output.

[Tralik]

Yes, but you conveniently omit the fact that the AC10 fires at nearly twice the rate at a higher DPS with substantially higher ammo per ton. As it was, gauss was well balanced with other high damage options. Now, there is little point given that it will blow up as soon as it is hit and it has to be in range of return fire to be used and has to be in medium range for max damage. Again, there will be no point to load one given that the range required to use one will be in the same range as an AC5 or AC10 which require less space, still generate little heat, and have substantially more ammo per ton. This nerf removes the PRIMARY REASON for using gauss.

[Wraith 1]

I hate sniper weapons in any game. I've pretty much stopped playing Splatoon entirely because I hate sniper weapons so much, and I only play TF2 anymore because most of the snipers playing it are complete trash: easy targets for stylish kills.

Even when actual counterplay exists for sniper weapons, it's irritating and tedious to pull off. I honestly think sniper weapons have no place whatsoever in multiplayer shooters excepting those designed from the ground up for sniper duels.

And I'M actually pretty disappointed to see a gauss nerf. C-ERPPC+C-Gauss is supposedly pretty strong right now, but I honestly can't even remember the last time a PPFLD boat gave me a bad time.

[Omniseed]

Tralik, on 12 December 2016 - 05:05 PM, said:

Yes, but you conveniently omit the fact that the AC10 fires at nearly twice the rate at a higher DPS with substantially higher ammo per ton. As it was, gauss was well balanced with other high damage options. Now, there is little point given that it will blow up as soon as it is hit and it has to be in range of return fire to be used and has to be in medium range for max damage. Again, there will be no point to load one given that the range required to use one will be in the same range as an AC5 or AC10 which require less space, still generate little heat, and have substantially more ammo per ton. This nerf removes the PRIMARY REASON for using gauss.

I completely agree with you, this is really a dramatic excision of the unique ability of the Gauss. It was always far more than just a heat-neutral heavy weapon, the triple max range made sense in the context of it as the weight- and fragility-restricted sniper's dream weapon.

[Kshahdoo]

Heh, if I first read the patch notes, I would never buy that Marauder IIC pack. I wanted to get a gauss Marauder IIC D, and now gauss is going to become a useless ****. Especially a clan one, which is as fragile as toddler bones.

An interesting thing, nobody whined about gauss OPness, so it's hard to say why did developers decide to nerf it.

Edited by Kshahdoo, 13 December 2016 - 12:45 AM.

[Dee Eight]

In Tabletop, Gauss rifles didn't shoot as far in comparison to smaller autocannons, ER-PPCs and clan ER-LL. There's no logical reason why in MWO, a Gauss should triple its optimal range. Especially not with all the mechs with ballistic range boost quirks. They eliminated the Energy range boosts beyond 10% about six months ago. They should have done the same with ballistics realistically. Think about that. With a gauss range module the optimal is 891, which means at 1782 meters, you're hitting for 7.5 damage. And then you have another 891 meters to extreme max and reducing damage. That this weapon alone lets you hit for so much precise damage.... is a bit excessive.

[Kshahdoo]

Dee Eight, on 13 December 2016 - 03:11 AM, said:

In Tabletop, Gauss rifles didn't shoot as far in comparison to smaller autocannons, ER-PPCs and clan ER-LL. There's no logical reason why in MWO, a Gauss should triple its optimal range. Especially not with all the mechs with ballistic range boost quirks. They eliminated the Energy range boosts beyond 10% about six months ago. They should have done the same with ballistics realistically. Think about that. With a gauss range module the optimal is 891, which means at 1782 meters, you're hitting for 7.5 damage. And then you have another 891 meters to extreme max and reducing damage. That this weapon alone lets you hit for so much precise damage.... is a bit excessive.

Do Clan ACs and UACs shoot with 3 shots instead of one in tabletop? I mean clan ballistic canons suck, and gauss was one of the better options, and now it sucks as well.

Edited by Kshahdoo, 13 December 2016 - 08:06 AM.