391 replies to this topic

[Jarl Dane]

[Count Zero 74]

What imbalance? Population? Skill? Tech?

Tech - No

Population/Skill - Yes

[FallingAce]

Count Zero 74, on 15 December 2016 - 02:23 AM, said:

What imbalance? Population? Skill? Tech?

Tech - No

Population/Skill - Yes

Maybe you should watch the video before commenting.

[Jarl Dane]

Count Zero 74, on 15 December 2016 - 02:23 AM, said:

What imbalance? Population? Skill? Tech?

Tech - No

Population/Skill - Yes

FallingAce, on 15 December 2016 - 02:35 AM, said:

Maybe you should watch the video before commenting.

lol

Indeed, I produce a video with evidence to back up my claims. But apparently some people are just to smug and comfortable in their elaborate toxic fantasies. Nothing you can do about that unfortunately.

Edited by Mech The Dane, 15 December 2016 - 02:49 AM.

[Spider00x]

Dane you are a goddamn Hero...

EVERYTHING YOU'VE Said Ive been saying for months and getting mocked, or just forum trolled. My Unit PKRL/ DC we were Steiner pugs and played and formed a COMP CW unit and rose to the top of our game. After a year of playing ONLY IS we went clan it, it was easy mode STRAIGHT easy mode for months. I dont like playing clan mechs cause it feels like im cheating. Ive posted numerous videos on the forums about how we decimate teams with those high alpha firing lines clan mechs provide. Every comp pilot deep down knows the truth. For christ sakes we had those weight class leader board challenge data for MONTHS. Im not sure why PGI allowed the Kodiak to go un nerfed for LONG but its presence systematically dismantled all the old IS units. NAMELY many of the German units that used to play this game hardcore like a second job.

While I do appreciate the drop deck tonnage increase, AND the WAY overdue streak missile nerf its time to address the XL engines. I would like to see Innersphere XLs not have the insta side torso death 'feature' removed before I sign up for mixed clan/ IS drop decks. In the "Lore," the innersphere im told shortly after the clan invasion broke out made adjustments to this engine flaw.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PGI, address this issue.

And before everyone starts talking about saying GET GOOD, I say we are WAY beyond that and the data shows it CATEGORICALLY. Its more about ease of use, a good player is going to be a good player in no matter what they drive... but do clan mechs have a higher amount of "click-mouse-to-win?" For the love of god YES!

The Kodiak K3 almost destroyed the game this summer, announcements at mech con bought you some time PGI I would use it wisely and address these balance issues post haste.

Edited by Spider00x, 15 December 2016 - 02:44 AM.

[AnTi90d]

I agree with everything up to the 12 minute mark.. but I vehemently disagree with your conclusion that IS factions should be allowed to run Clan mechs. Russler already gutted our faction identities, now you advocate the gutting of all IS tech from FP dropdecks.. (not that FP is fun, anymore, that we're forced to play Quickplay poking-maps on garbage Quickplay modes..)

Before anything as drastic as this, I'd rather see an easy-to-add update of LightFusion Engines for the IS (2 crit slots / torso and right in between XL and Standard weight for the rating) and XXL Engines for the Clans (4 crit slots / torso and 17% lighter than ClanXL Engines,) with additional balance changes from the new (non-Paul) balance overlord.

Although there is no amount of rebalancing that will really account for weapon mount height.. and there is no easy fix for that.. as any changes would require a lot of work on PGI's part.. like recoding arms to toggle between at-sides-position and raised-forward position.. or moving weapon mounts higher on the mechs.. or giving severely underperforming mechs more hardpoints.

[Jarl Dane]

AnTi90d, on 15 December 2016 - 02:43 AM, said:

I agree with everything up to the 12 minute mark.. but I vehemently disagree with your conclusion that IS factions should be allowed to run Clan mechs.

That's understandable.
It's only the solution that I think would work best - that is just my opinion. As long as we can get beyond the stupid back and forth where blame is improperly placed on the pugs or players and instead focus on the tech and the incentives to use that tech we can all hopefully start on the path to repairing the glaring issues with this game mode.

Edited by Mech The Dane, 15 December 2016 - 02:48 AM.

[Spider00x]

Mech The Dane, on 15 December 2016 - 02:47 AM, said:

That's understandable.
It's only the solution that I think would work best - that is just my opinion. As long as we can get beyond the stupid back and forth where blame is improperly placed on the pugs or players and on the tech and the incentives to use that tech we can all hopefully start on the path to repairing the glaring issues with this game mode.

Dane I will be 100% behind you about the mixed tech IS/ Clan drop deck if the fixing of the XL engine doesnt indeed bring balance. But I think it would... at least this is a more lore friendly solution or stepping stone if you will before we scrap the factions all together.

[DivBy0]

@Count : You are wrong and you should know it better. You will play the game? Then why not mix the tech? And tell me nothing about lore.... you are a merc! on the clan side. This is much more against the lore as the use of salvage tech ever will be. Dane hit the point... Clan Tech is easier and! better and every player who will play successfull is going to play with the better tech (even when the gap is close). And I say that Player who play successfull in IS tech will play more successfull in Clan tech. You too!

@Dane: 100% agree. Most IS mechs are useless junk and the rest is nerfed and only second class at best. Even the best IS mechs are subpar to the Clans and only those skillfull player who must, because they are bound to a IS Unit, play IS mechs in CW (or whatever the actual name is). Of course soon some Merc Units will switch because the wait time will raise every day the IS slaugther goes on and IS Player stop dropping. With the Marauder IIC the next Power Creep Mech has arrived and for the IS.... nothing as useless or redundant Mechs in the last nine month and nothing usefull in Queue for the next half year. Let us mix the tech!

Edited by von Haudegen, 15 December 2016 - 02:53 AM.

[FallingAce]

You forgot the breakdown of the MWO World Championships Finals

EMP 1 grasshopper
Eon 1 grasshopper 2 spiders

12 clan vs 4 I.S.

[Jarl Dane]

FallingAce, on 15 December 2016 - 03:14 AM, said:

You forgot the breakdown of the MWO World Championships Finals

EMP 1 grasshopper
Eon 1 grasshopper 2 spiders

12 clan vs 4 I.S.

I avoided discussing WC because of the build it was based on is pretty different from what we're using right now. You have the rescale and some Kodiak nerfs that just made me uncomfortable using it. I felt that the current MRBC season which essentially says the same thing worked just as good for getting the same idea across; mainly that the competitive players broadcast for anyone with eyes to see what the reality is here, that Clan mechs are better.

[Carl Vickers]

I dont think LFE's will solve the issue, make IS XL not insta death, normalization before more tech.

[Dark Wooki33 IIC]

Good points and mixing mechs would be intresting and atleast worth a try.

Still, the recognition of the data is flawed.
The high values in the leaderboard were archieved by experienced long range specialists utilising mechs with high mounts and a cautious/boring(dont scratch my paint!) playstyle on most qp maps.(With the kdk3 as an exception.)
CW (or atleast most of the invasionmaps) was/were centered about short(0-400m) range engagements and hard pushes.
Completely different story.

The skill level is the main reason, even in clans it is way to widespread(some of the bearcubs,wolfpugs still give me a shudder).
In the last two weeks prior to the new phase the frr reconquerd a planet nearly every day and the kuritas always gave a good fight, so the balance cant be that far off (if at all).

But what you can see now on the IS side ...
it is simply terrifying and i dont envy the units and pilots that have to fight on the side of the underhive or plain madness.

Maybe it needs time for the pugs (or tutorials/advice if they cant come up with theit own ideas) to adjust their playstyle.
At the moment they play it like quickplay and get kicked in the nuts most of the time.
Cant imagine this is fun ... but it looks like the unwilingless to adapt is too strong.

I have no doubt that some vocal part of our community will try to damage the faction balance (that was okish after the kdk3nerf).
If you remember some IS loyalist that advocated for not dropping against clans ever again and how much cw games they got with it ... if someone start to act (overreaction?) to such minoritys it could be "gg close" for even more then cw/fp.
Giving them the same tools may prohibit an overall clan nerf.

[Spider00x]

Dark Wooki33 IIC, on 15 December 2016 - 04:01 AM, said:

Good points and mixing mechs would be intresting and atleast worth a try.

Still, the recognition of the data is flawed.
The high values in the leaderboard were archieved by experienced long range specialists utilising mechs with high mounts and a cautious/boring(dont scratch my paint!) playstyle on most qp maps.(With the kdk3 as an exception.)
CW (or atleast most of the invasionmaps) was/were centered about short(0-400m) range engagements and hard pushes.
Completely different story.

The skill level is the main reason, even in clans it is way to widespread(some of the bearcubs,wolfpugs still give me a shudder).
In the last two weeks prior to the new phase the frr reconquerd a planet nearly every day and the kuritas always gave a good fight, so the balance cant be that far off (if at all).

Correction MJ12 conquered planets, one of the best and most active units in the game. Thats hardly a bell breaking curve

[Count Zero 74]

von Haudegen, on 15 December 2016 - 02:51 AM, said:

@Count : You are wrong and you should know it better. You will play the game? Then why not mix the tech? And tell me nothing about lore.... you are a merc! on the clan side. This is much more against the lore as the use of salvage tech ever will be. Dane hit the point... Clan Tech is easier and! better and every player who will play successfull is going to play with the better tech (even when the gap is close). And I say that Player who play successfull in IS tech will play more successfull in Clan tech. You too!

- Yes I "will play the game"

- I'm not telling u anything bout lore. I give a **** about lore and all the LoreWarriors out there are a joke

- Watch my stream and watch me play in Clan mechs. Easier my *** lol.

(well, when I play Clan mechs that is, cause I play mostly IS cause its so much easier)

Edited by Count Zero 74, 15 December 2016 - 04:09 AM.

[Dark Wooki33 IIC]

Spider00x, on 15 December 2016 - 04:04 AM, said:

Correction MJ12 conquered planets, one of the best and most active units in the game. Thats hardly a bell breaking curve

I was on the receiving end more then once.
The first weekend of the reconquista there was coordinated effort from mj12 and evil that simply crushed everything.
No games were won on this day.
Afterwards most of the units encounterd were "minor" ones and public ffr drops.
But yeah mj12 contributed probably the most to the war efforts and to an increase of overall frr moral.

[Bradigus]

Ha ha ha. It's Tukayyid all over again. Units concentrate to one side to harvest the randoms for maximum profits, Clan side is doing better, nerfs are called, clan side gets hammered in, IS gets bloated because clans stop being enjoyable from some combination of buff to IS and nerf to clans, units concentrate to IS side for better mechs, queues get lopsided 3:1 in terms of population for IS and CW is abandoned because there are no games to be found for IS players.

Clanners adjust their builds in hopes of making due with what they are then left with and still beat the organization allergic IS random hordes, and they still complain.

FRR randoms were doing perfectly fine up to the day before this patch in winning FW/ CW matches. Just yesterday 12DG were having a field day bashing in clan randoms. So what exactly changed? Clans got a few decimals more heat capacity on their double heatsinks, and that they can now alpha strike the builds they had before the patch and not shut down? I guess that's the imbalance.

[Jarl Dane]

Count Zero 74, on 15 December 2016 - 04:07 AM, said:

- Watch my stream and watch me play in Clan mechs. Easier my *** lol.

Your personal experiences are of extremely limited value against larger datasets.

Dark Wooki33 IIC, on 15 December 2016 - 04:01 AM, said:

The skill level is the main reason, even in clans it is way to widespread(some of the bearcubs,wolfpugs still give me a shudder).

And what drives the skill level difference? Why are all the competitive teams in the clans right now? What is the drive that got them there? It didn't just happen.

If skill was what was important here, then they would be in the IS because they would get faster queue times in the IS. Instead they rather wait longer but use Clan mechs? If anyone wants to seriously argue my point they need be able to explain why the difference in skill; because I have.

Bradigus, on 15 December 2016 - 04:29 AM, said:

FRR randoms were doing perfectly fine up to the day before this patch in winning FW/ CW matches. Just yesterday 12DG were having a field day bashing in clan randoms. So what exactly changed? Clans got a few decimals more heat capacity on their double heatsinks, and that they can now alpha strike the builds they had before the patch and not shut down? I guess that's the imbalance.

Quickplay matches are what changed. If you bothered to watch my video you'd know that. But since you prefer to argue from a place of ignorance I suppose I shouldn't expect much more than that.

[naterist]

what if the reward is limited only to loyalists, and the higher rank you go, the more clan mechs you can have. like rank 5 unlocks one clan mech that can be put in your dropdeck, and 10 unlocks 2, 15 unlocks 3, and 20 unlocks a full dropdeck of clanmechs.
that way we arent seeing a field of 24 kodiaks every fw game, leave it limited to only one.

thats just a thought. im ok with the idea, but i would vastly preffer a balanced route, and i feel that the xl engine is what needs to go instead.remove instadeath, and replace it with a slightly worse penalty than the clan xl, like you go 65%speed and have a slightly bigger heat jump, but no insta death. that instantly makes a huge range of mechs have xl availability and a new range of builds because of that, plus IS will get a general speed increase from it.

but your analysis is 100% spot on. ive been meaning to point out as well, in phase 3, every clan had a w/l ratio of over 1.0, and the ONLY inner sphere faction with a w/l ratio over 1.0 was the frr.

[Count Zero 74]

That's what I called unbalanced