19 replies to this topic

[DavidStarr]

I love LRMs in general and especially medium and heavy LRM boats, they deal pretty large amounts of damage for their tonnage. Anyway, I enjoy this CPLT-C4 a lot, and I also want to try A1, probably something like this (Li Song shows A1 to have higher sustained DPS, contrary to Smurphy's. And yes, I do hit the heat threshold quite often).

I'm thinking tighter spread of LRM 5s combined with Artemis will let me do more useful damage, i. e. focus fire on side torsos better? Perhaps even destroy mech's heads?
But I'm hard-pressed for C-Bills, so if A1 is not noticeably better then I shouldn't spend on it.

Edited by DavidStarr, 20 December 2016 - 02:13 AM.

[WrathOfDeadguy]

I don't run LRM builds, but there's something that pops out right away: both of those builds are utterly devoid of backup weaponry. LRMs have a minimum range of 180m, and inside that you're just casting mean looks at people. I drive lights pretty often, and when I see a build like one of these I start licking my lips for the feast. Even a single medium laser is something; without anything at all to cover that blind spot, the pile of cbills your 'Mech represents is free for the taking if so much as one enemy gets inside it.

A LRMboat with backup weapons tells me that the pilot is ready for a fight and will be watching out for me, whereas if they're 100% LRMs then I know they're not even anticipating me as a threat. Just having a backup weapon will sometimes convince an anklebiter like me not to go after you- it's not even the damage the weapon is capable of doing, but the pilot mentality its presence suggests.

[AncientRaig]

WrathOfDeadguy, on 21 December 2016 - 02:13 PM, said:

I don't run LRM builds, but there's something that pops out right away: both of those builds are utterly devoid of backup weaponry. LRMs have a minimum range of 180m, and inside that you're just casting mean looks at people. I drive lights pretty often, and when I see a build like one of these I start licking my lips for the feast. Even a single medium laser is something; without anything at all to cover that blind spot, the pile of cbills your 'Mech represents is free for the taking if so much as one enemy gets inside it.

A LRMboat with backup weapons tells me that the pilot is ready for a fight and will be watching out for me, whereas if they're 100% LRMs then I know they're not even anticipating me as a threat. Just having a backup weapon will sometimes convince an anklebiter like me not to go after you- it's not even the damage the weapon is capable of doing, but the pilot mentality its presence suggests.

Well, if you're running a Catapult A1 you really only have an "All-in" option. I guess you could throw on a Streak or an SRM4 or two as backup, but you don't really have a load of options. On a C1 or C4, if you're not running a few medium lasers as backup and the very least, you're doing it wrong.

DavidStarr, on 20 December 2016 - 02:12 AM, said:

I love LRMs in general and especially medium and heavy LRM boats, they deal pretty large amounts of damage for their tonnage. Anyway, I enjoy this CPLT-C4 a lot, and I also want to try A1, probably something like this (Li Song shows A1 to have higher sustained DPS, contrary to Smurphy's. And yes, I do hit the heat threshold quite often).

I'm thinking tighter spread of LRM 5s combined with Artemis will let me do more useful damage, i. e. focus fire on side torsos better? Perhaps even destroy mech's heads?
But I'm hard-pressed for C-Bills, so if A1 is not noticeably better then I shouldn't spend on it.

I would get a C1 first. Personally, when I see an A1 in just about anything, I see a free kill. You're all LRMs, no backup weapons, and easily disarmed. If you lose your arms, and you will lose your arms before you lose your mech most of the time, you're completely useless. If you're wanting to try and do specific component damage, even ALRM5s won't allow that. You'll hit CT better, but that's about it. If you're looking for the ability to shoot off an arm, or snipe a damaged ST on an XL mech, you want something with a few lasers. For your C4, I'd suggest something like this: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...4aa516adc671f92 You're losing a bit of ammo and your jumpjet, but you have an MPL so you're not utterly defenseless if you need to fight off someone inside of LRM range. You could switch to a standard ML if you want, but that's up to you. For the C1, I'd suggest this: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...618f613f81ef67c ALRM10s, TAG, BAP, 1 JJ, 3 MPLs, and plenty of ammo. It'll let you be a bit more aggressive if you need to, so you can contribute to the fight more than just sitting around lobbing missiles, and if you get attacked by a light mech you have a decent deterrent to get him to piss off.

Edited by Sidefire, 21 December 2016 - 02:37 PM.

[Spheroid]

Here, I ran some lurm experiments in testing grounds for you. On the left is number of (group fire)salvoes to kill an Awesome and on the right is weight. Although the TTK on LRM10 is lower you are going to pay a lot of in terms of heat and payload. For that reason I recommend the C1 and leave the C4 and A1 for splat builds.

It is a trivial matter to calculate the ttk and culmative heat from the observed number of salvoes.

(12) LRM15x2 = 14 tons
(9) LRM20x2 = 20 tons
(7) LRM10x4 = 20 tons
(6) ALRM20x2 = 22 tons
(8) ALRM15x2 = 16 tons
(5) ALRM10x4 = 24 tons

Edited by Spheroid, 21 December 2016 - 09:07 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

DavidStarr, on 20 December 2016 - 02:12 AM, said:

I love LRMs in general and especially medium and heavy LRM boats, they deal pretty large amounts of damage for their tonnage. Anyway, I enjoy this CPLT-C4 a lot, and I also want to try A1, probably something like this (Li Song shows A1 to have higher sustained DPS, contrary to Smurphy's. And yes, I do hit the heat threshold quite often).

I'm thinking tighter spread of LRM 5s combined with Artemis will let me do more useful damage, i. e. focus fire on side torsos better? Perhaps even destroy mech's heads?
But I'm hard-pressed for C-Bills, so if A1 is not noticeably better then I shouldn't spend on it.

Watch



And do.

Except spread the ammo out like THIS

I can crank out 600-800dmg games fairly regularly even in T1 matches. I just do it when I wanna troll, but yeah, it works and works well. Key is - aggression. You play 800m back, you're not doing it right.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 21 December 2016 - 09:26 PM.

[Holy Jackson]

I sometimes run a C4 with A+LRM20's, jumpjets, and a tag (and a MLAS), and it pukes damage. The key is to learn to play forward and tag your own locks. at 400 meters with artemis and a tag those 40 missile balls are a hammer.

[Wraith 1]

WrathOfDeadguy, on 21 December 2016 - 02:13 PM, said:

A LRMboat with backup weapons tells me that the pilot is ready for a fight and will be watching out for me, whereas if they're 100% LRMs then I know they're not even anticipating me as a threat. Just having a backup weapon will sometimes convince an anklebiter like me not to go after you- it's not even the damage the weapon is capable of doing, but the pilot mentality its presence suggests.

Hmm. My mentality is pretty much the opposite of this.

If I see someone isolated from the main force and mounting any LRMs at all, I'll assume they're bad enough that my Oxide can win a face-to-face brawl with them no matter what their other weapons are. I don't think I've ever been wrong.

The C4 has some amazing energy quirks, so it'd probably be worth sticking some lasers in there just because of how tonnage efficient they are, but staying away from the edges of your team's deathball is a much more effective way to not get your legs SRM'd off.

[Chados]

Boating is a bad idea. And A1 over C4 all day, every day.

I pack 2xALRM 15, BAP, 6 tons ammo, and 4xSSRM2 with 2 tons, and SSRM range/cooldown modules, LRM cooldown, Target Delay, and Radar Deprivation modules. I bait in the lights by LRMing a little and then surprise!

Come to me, little Jenner. They run like scared children when the streaks start popping.

LRMing from distance should only be done while you're closing distance. LRMing is best done from right with the deathball or right behind it. If you're at the edge of SSRM range you're doing it right. And if you're all LRMs and no credible secondary weapons you're doing it wrong, in my personal LRMisher opinion.

Edited by Chados, 22 December 2016 - 04:28 PM.

[Void Angel]

DavidStarr, on 20 December 2016 - 02:12 AM, said:

(Li Song shows A1 to have higher sustained DPS, contrary to Smurphy's. And yes, I do hit the heat threshold quite often).

Li Song's algorithms are much more robust than the one Smurfy uses - his assumes that you are firing all your weapons on cooldown, because you have to option to change the frequency, I'd imagine. Li Song's mechlab calculates your actual maximum dps with the given weapons loadout, which is much more useful; in short, believe Li Song for that particular metric.

[Koniving]

Sidefire, on 21 December 2016 - 02:34 PM, said:

Well, if you're running a Catapult A1 you really only have an "All-in" option. I guess you could throw on a Streak or an SRM4 or two as backup, but you don't really have a load of options.

An Archer LRM boat... of the pure missile variety... with one of those limited options (twin SRM-2) as backup..
...and how well it works.

[Dee Eight]

I don't believe in pure LRM boating (even clan ones) and so all my LRM optimized mechs also have close in weapons. So with an A1 i'd run a pair of SRM4s or 6s with the rest LRM5s or 10s. A C4 would get medium pulse lasers probably.

[Darian DelFord]

WrathOfDeadguy, on 21 December 2016 - 02:13 PM, said:

A LRMboat with backup weapons tells me that the pilot is ready for a fight and will be watching out for me, whereas if they're 100% LRMs then I know they're not even anticipating me as a threat. Just having a backup weapon will sometimes convince an anklebiter like me not to go after you- it's not even the damage the weapon is capable of doing, but the pilot mentality its presence suggests.

As a dedicated light pilot, Backup weapons or not.... if you are primarily a LRM boat.... your only chance of survival is to STAY WITH THE GROUP!!!. The moment you lag behind.... even a little....your toast. Light mechs who have been doing this long enough know exactly how to time their first shot during your volley's to cover up the sound of you being hit by laser fire.

Your greatest weapon as an LRM boat is situational awareness.

An A1 with 6 LRM 5 is damn near invulnerable in the middle of the death ball. A C1 with 2x LRM 15 and 4 MPL's is toast if by himself.

Most of my LRM Boats do not have back up weapons.... more LRM's the merrier..... but I also stay with the pack.

TL DR...... Stay with the group.... back up weapons will not really deter if your alone.

[Burke IV]

justcallme A S H, on 21 December 2016 - 09:25 PM, said:

Watch

Hilarious stuff. True aswell.

[Mad Ox]

My 2 cents jsut picked up C4 and I am quite content with it loaded with 2 LRM15 2 SRM4 and 2 ML been quite a tough mech and SRM4/ML give me a bit close in sustainable firepower when things get close.

A1 with all weapons on arms leaves me feeling to vulnerable to wandering around with no weapons.

[DavidStarr]

Mad Ox, on 31 January 2017 - 03:18 PM, said:

My 2 cents jsut picked up C4 and I am quite content with it loaded with 2 LRM15 2 SRM4 and 2 ML

Congrats, you've built a mech that's good at nothing
You neither have many LRMs to deal high damage at range, nor significant close range weapons to drop mechs fast up close. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but that's how it looks to me.

WrathOfDeadguy, on 21 December 2016 - 02:13 PM, said:

there's something that pops out right away: both of those builds are utterly devoid of backup weaponry.

My teammates are my backup. I used to run C4 with two MPLs at first, but it turned out to be waste of space and tonnage. I've concluded I'm much better off with a TAG and extra LRM ammo instead.

Spheroid, on 21 December 2016 - 09:00 PM, said:

Here, I ran some lurm experiments in testing grounds for you.

Thanks, very interesting, bookmarking this for future reference!

justcallme A S H, on 21 December 2016 - 09:25 PM, said:

Watch

And do.

Wow! 5 JJs is not something I would think of. I used 2 on my Splat Cat (6xASRM4 CPLT-A1), and used two on C4 at first (then dropped one, then dropped the last one for more ammo). This is an interesting tactic.
Wouldn't work without target retention module, though (the only module I have is LRM 10 cooldown cause I can't afford modules that cost as much as a whole mech).

Too bad Archers can't equip JJs.

Edited by DavidStarr, 01 February 2017 - 11:57 PM.

[Mad Ox]

Quote

[color=#959595]Congrats, you've built a mech that's good at nothing [/color][color=#959595][/color]
[color=#959595]You neither have many LRMs to deal high damage at range, nor significant close range weapons to drop mechs fast up close. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but that's how it looks to me.[/color]

What can I say, sometimes the dirty pennies shine up well.

It has a little bit of everything for sure but for what ever reason it really works well. I always have something to do fire support, scare away some silly light harassers, or clean up.

Sometimes what should not work well it just works.

Edited by Mad Ox, 02 February 2017 - 12:18 PM.

[DavidStarr]

I guess I phrased that incorrectly (and too harshly). What I should have said is I don't see a single reason why that build could be any good. That said, just because I don't see it doesn't mean it can't be.

Mind recording a video of that build at work for our amusement and education?

[Evil Goof]

DavidStarr, on 20 December 2016 - 02:12 AM, said:

I love LRMs in general and especially medium and heavy LRM boats, they deal pretty large amounts of damage for their tonnage. Anyway, I enjoy this CPLT-C4 a lot, and I also want to try A1, probably something like this (Li Song shows A1 to have higher sustained DPS, contrary to Smurphy's. And yes, I do hit the heat threshold quite often).

I'm thinking tighter spread of LRM 5s combined with Artemis will let me do more useful damage, i. e. focus fire on side torsos better? Perhaps even destroy mech's heads?
But I'm hard-pressed for C-Bills, so if A1 is not noticeably better then I shouldn't spend on it.

There is a forum post about artemis and it's negligable benefits to lrm 5's. If you do get the A1, don't bother wasting the tonnage on it unless you are doing the only good build which is all splat.

[justcallme A S H]

The benefit is not in spread, but in lock time reduction.

It's worth it.

[DavidStarr]

Evil Goof, on 02 February 2017 - 01:38 PM, said:

don't bother wasting the tonnage on it unless you are doing the only good build which is all splat.

I don't know about LRM A1, but LRM C4 is miles better than splat A1.