Jump to content

Dropzone Farming, Qq Some More About It Pls, Your Tears Are Sweet


132 replies to this topic

#21 TiguriusX

    Member

  • PipPipPip
  • The Hammer
  • The Hammer
  • 59 posts

Posted 24 December 2016 - 01:14 PM

View PostCommander A9, on 24 December 2016 - 12:19 PM, said:

Are you suggesting that big teams/skilled players should throw matches in order to have people play against us? Should we artificially lose simply because we think winning too much will drive the opposition away?



I think it has been fairly well established that a core problem right now is team stacking. All the big teams and a majority of the skilled players are on one side.

#22 Evil Goof

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • The Silent Killer
  • The Silent Killer
  • 162 posts

Posted 24 December 2016 - 01:26 PM

View PostDANKnuggz, on 22 December 2016 - 01:33 PM, said:

FP is supposed to be more like open warfare (it isn't really but its supposed to be...) and as such my MAIN goal is to come up with the tactics that my enemies HATE... Let me restate that.... In WAR, if your strategy is pissing the enemy off, you're doing your job right.

That being said, if your weak team gets its butt rolled all the way back to its drop zone.... YOU DESERVE TO BE SPAWN CAMPED... Why should your enemy allow you time to regroup and push???? They are your ENEMY and have absolutely ZERO desire to see you win... Don't snivel at me about "sportsmanship".... Sportsmanship is for before and after the match starts.... stuff like "GL HF".... and "GG all"..... In between beginning and end, IT IS TIME TO SKULL HUMP YOU AS HARD AS POSSIBLE!!!! Don't like that?? Well go find a Care Bears game to play or something cause war games aren't for you bud...

DEATH TO THE RED TEAM!!!


Well put. It is a part of the strategy of the game and it sucks when it happens to you. Some maps in Invasion, (especially Hellbore) rolling into the drop zone can drastically reduce the Clan range advantage or reel in a game after you have lost the first wave.

Seems that the newer people or more mentally challenged players that are now coming to play FW have no idea and I keep getting people over chat saying that they are reporting for spawn camping...

Hey in one of the two losses I had last night, 228 perma deaded me (after I had already done 1200 damage in a shadow cat) after my first death. It was about an even match until they took charge and got the advantage. I laughed cause although I want to use every mech and kill stuff it was smart on their part. We play to win right? It is not as if this move is defenseless. You generally can only do it against crap teams or disorganised pugs.

Edited by Evil Goof, 25 December 2016 - 02:26 AM.


#23 nehebkau

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,383 posts
  • LocationIn a water-rights dispute with a Beaver

Posted 24 December 2016 - 02:44 PM

View PostWillard Phule, on 24 December 2016 - 12:32 PM, said:


And my riposte....

Ok, how about this....simply getting into a FW match takes time waiting and watching the stupid thing spin. If you're unfortunate enough to end up on a potato team, do you want to spend the next 20-45 minutes herping the derp or do you want to get it over quickly and move on to the next match?

Guess what? Pounding the other team before they hit the ground is about as quickly and efficiently as you can get when it comes to ending a travesty. Sucks to be the potatoes being harvested, but at least it's quick.


here's the problem -- that stops new players from playing FW a next time which means they will not get the skills, contacts and tools needed to enjoy FW -- that means the population dies (yet again). Even in boxing, a guy gets a standing 8 count.

View PostEvil Goof, on 24 December 2016 - 01:26 PM, said:

Seems that the newer people or more metally challenged players that are now coming to play FW have no idea and I keep getting people over chat saying that they are reporting for spawn camping...


No, its just that QP gives nothing to help people play FW aside from piloting skills. Play FW like you play QP and you lose -- that simple.

Edited by nehebkau, 24 December 2016 - 02:45 PM.


#24 Commandelicious

    Member

  • Pip
  • The Raider
  • 14 posts
  • LocationOldenburg / Germany

Posted 24 December 2016 - 03:31 PM

The problem is that the game pisses me off, not the enemies. Started again after like one and a half year and I still have the same problem as before: Withour clans it was (for me, obviously) more fun.

Was ok playing against and with you, happy hunting. I'm off.

#25 Willard Phule

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 3,408 posts
  • LocationThe Omega Company compound on Outreach

Posted 24 December 2016 - 03:39 PM

View Postnehebkau, on 24 December 2016 - 02:44 PM, said:


here's the problem -- that stops new players from playing FW a next time which means they will not get the skills, contacts and tools needed to enjoy FW -- that means the population dies (yet again). Even in boxing, a guy gets a standing 8 count.


*shrug* At some point, FW is going to have to become something other than "romper room" for the window lickers to learn in or it's going to continue to be an endless stream of baby seal hunts. You gotta make it something you have to work for. End game content with beginning game players and equipment. Only PGI would think that's a good idea.

View Postnehebkau, on 24 December 2016 - 02:44 PM, said:

No, its just that QP gives nothing to help people play FW aside from piloting skills. Play FW like you play QP and you lose -- that simple.


Gee, if only QP had some way to keep people separated, so the snowflakes don't end up being weight that has to be carried. What a novel concept.

#26 nehebkau

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,383 posts
  • LocationIn a water-rights dispute with a Beaver

Posted 24 December 2016 - 03:52 PM

View PostWillard Phule, on 24 December 2016 - 03:39 PM, said:


*shrug* At some point, FW is going to have to become something other than "romper room" for the window lickers to learn in or it's going to continue to be an endless stream of baby seal hunts. You gotta make it something you have to work for. End game content with beginning game players and equipment. Only PGI would think that's a good idea.


I agree -- but without PGI actually doing something our choices are "hold the pee-pee of new players" or "Crush them and watch our number bleed". Both are terrible but what can you... do......... Think I am going to telnet into the university and play nethack.

#27 BearFlag

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Mercenary
  • 374 posts

Posted 24 December 2016 - 05:04 PM

The only thing more pathetic than spawn camping is trying to justify it. It flys against many basic game design principles. MWO is no "wargame". It is more akin to sports. From a design perspective spawn camping should pure and simply not exist. PGI knows this and tried to fix it (and failed).

On a wargame ladder #1 ranked player is not matched with #1000. Just not done. Further, in wargaming as in chess a match can be conceded when it's a rout. At some point there's no point in continuing.

But not MWO. Not only does it pit mismatched teams, it compels them to go to the bitter pointless end. It's like a bad basketball game with a 60 point spread and 12 minutes still on the clock. This is not due to "deserves", to inevitability, to realism. It's just bad design.

Since PGI can't prevent spawn camping (It's not an impossible problem), just end the game, poof, victory. You win. 18-2? Poof, you win. Match conceded. Mission ("realistically" after all) aborted. Spare the losing side drawn out and compulsory attendance.

But wouldn't the tears flow then? The losing side doesn't "deserve" to be farmed in a game. But some certainly think they deserve to farm the losing side.

Edited by BearFlag, 24 December 2016 - 05:13 PM.


#28 OZHomerOZ

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Little Helper
  • 2,243 posts

Posted 24 December 2016 - 06:19 PM

View Postnehebkau, on 24 December 2016 - 02:44 PM, said:


No, its just that QP gives nothing to help people play FW aside from piloting skills. Play FW like you play QP and you lose -- that simple.



Yeah but those skills are essential, many skills transfer well from Solo que to CW and group queue.
Things like:
1) aim
2) spreading damage
3) shooting wot your team mate shoots without a call
4) sticking with the team
5) Trading
6) Terrian use
7) Line of sight management

Without the basics following orders can only do so much.

CW is like open class, anything goes
If your not ready for open class
I suggest get ready in Solo queue, that least its got a match maker

When your ready come back

Its much easier to adjust to CW (or anything really) once you have the basics down

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 24 December 2016 - 06:21 PM.


#29 OZHomerOZ

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Little Helper
  • 2,243 posts

Posted 24 December 2016 - 07:22 PM

View PostLyons De Flamand, on 24 December 2016 - 08:16 AM, said:

But this isn't a war, this is a game.

Let me repeat.

It's just a game!!!!

And by being a total douchebag you'll make sure you'll be only playing with yourself really fast.


You mean, if you don't agree with me your a douche bag.

By the by
Open the MWO homepage and look at the browser tab

It says: MWO: The Future is War

#30 Evil Goof

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • The Silent Killer
  • The Silent Killer
  • 162 posts

Posted 25 December 2016 - 02:55 AM

View Postnehebkau, on 24 December 2016 - 02:44 PM, said:


here's the problem -- that stops new players from playing FW a next time which means they will not get the skills, contacts and tools needed to enjoy FW -- that means the population dies (yet again). Even in boxing, a guy gets a standing 8 count.



No, its just that QP gives nothing to help people play FW aside from piloting skills. Play FW like you play QP and you lose -- that simple.


No, you are wrong. Although you do not always use the same strategies, you should first learn the basic skills on how to play the game in quick play. This would give a player the experience and money to get the proper mechs, modules and mastered drop decks.

So no as it sits it very much isn't simple. A big part of that is the very notion that FW would, could or should be new player friendly. Right now it is more than before, but there is still great odds that well oiled machines will roll up on pug groups. This should be addressed first and foremost if there is even interest on pgi's part on making FW just another version of quick play.

Right now it is new and shiney and there is an event. So there is more playing now over the holidays than there has been in a very long time. The issue is that unlike the many of us who joined units and read forum's and bought mechs and mastered them for drop decks and watched countless youtube videos of top teams playing faction....you have stubborn pugs who are new or simply window lickers who refuse to accept you are hurting your team by bringing an lrm Atlas. Lrm anything for the most part actually. Have dropped with guys who refuse to listen to drop callers and (despite the enemy having satalite sweep) insist he is going to opposite gate as a distraction. Morons who reinforce despite being told repeatedly not to over and over and over.

To suggest that it is somehow on the players to make it new guy friendly and to do so from the opposition is patently absurd. It won't happen so really it's very notion is a non-starter. To say that there are not ample resources from and by this community to assist in helping a player who is interested in playing FW would be untrue. As a merc my TS bookmarks tab is full of friendly welcoming hubs that have clearly marked rooms for everyone to join FW. There, there are tons of really nice guys more than willing to help and spend their time to help people.

In short the onus is not on the enemy to coddle their opponent who likely refuses to some basic and simple things to succeed. It is on the player to put in some effort if they are interested in not getting wiped out by an enemies first wave.

#31 Syn Pryde

    Member

  • PipPipPip
  • Mercenary Rank 2
  • Mercenary Rank 2
  • 64 posts

Posted 25 December 2016 - 03:30 AM

people with that ultra hardcore mindset are the main reason why i have been in sheeeeeaty ghost drops for too long. why FW is collapsing. this is a game, not war. the other side needs to be in there to have a fight. got that into your brain ? no enemy no fight.

thats beeing a noob at the art of getting the most out of the queue.

at least let them have some fun, so they come back again. maybe you understand when i say - no seal clubbing if there are no seals. but i honestly would train them to fight rather then club seals, because i enjoy a good fight. there is no fun in shooting dead ducks.

thats what i leave to air force and artillery and kids in games.

Edited by Syn Pryde, 25 December 2016 - 03:32 AM.


#32 Marquis De Lafayette

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Blazing
  • The Blazing
  • 1,180 posts
  • LocationIn Valley Forge with General Washington

Posted 25 December 2016 - 07:17 AM

In my time playing FP I've seen an amazing amount of critique on "the right way to win".

-Roll people back to their drop zones: You are a jerk for overrunning your enemy and not giving them a chance to shoot you back much (or at all).

-play for objectives too early (gen rush, cap on assault mode during wave 1, etc): you are a coward for playing to win and not giving the other team enough of a chance to win.

-step out of circle on domination to stop from winning by countdown: you are a jerk for farming when you could have ended it

-stay in the circle and not let them back in: you are costing everyone (friends and enemies) cbills by ending it early.

I know it's acceptable to win 48-47 and it seems generally accepted that you are "allowed" to gen rush in wave 4 (if you are down at least 12 mechs that is)...aside from that the playerbase can't seem to totally agree on socially acceptable ways to win.

I say all this to point out how preposterous this all is. If PGI wanted a "mercy rule" they could implement it. Not sure we would want it though, as you can sometimes pull a game out when you really,really shouldn't and it's the most amazing feeling when you do! I have won games that we were down 10+ mechs in....I have lost games where we were up 12 mechs in wave 3 and got gen rushed (I was mad at myself and my team for letting them, not the opponent!)....I have seen domination and conquest flip mid-game. It all happens...

yes, we can discourage newer players with some of this stuff. That fact alone doesn't mean it can or even should be fixed though. You could have an honor code of no gen rushing or no spawn camping....but it would change the game tactically. If you didn't have to defend against a "dishonorable tactic", it would distort how you would play as the attacker or defender.

Playing to win is the only way to go. Whatever that looks like.







#33 Positive Mental Attitude

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Bad Company
  • Bad Company
  • 393 posts
  • LocationWAYup

Posted 25 December 2016 - 07:53 AM

Slowly getting back to ghost drops by 6pm for clanners. Will continue to work harder.

#34 Cox Devalis

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 994 posts
  • LocationTryhard dimension

Posted 25 December 2016 - 09:00 AM

View PostLyons De Flamand, on 24 December 2016 - 08:16 AM, said:

Let me repeat.

It's just a game!!!!



"it's just a game" is illusion. It's not a game, it's the time of your life. It's the time of everyone's life that we spend in computer game. When you play a computer game you pay the highest price - time. Mechpack money is just a paper. Lifetime is the real price.

Let me repeat.

We are on the way to death here!

#35 Lyons De Flamand

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Bad Company
  • Bad Company
  • 146 posts

Posted 25 December 2016 - 09:27 AM

View PostOZHomerOZ, on 24 December 2016 - 07:22 PM, said:


You mean, if you don't agree with me your a douche bag.

By the by
Open the MWO homepage and look at the browser tab

It says: MWO: The Future is War

Defending being a douchebag by a game's tagline. *slow clap*

Open Steam, go to library, go to games: Hey look there it is, Mechwarrior! It is not war, if you think it is, you're taking it way too seriously. But you know, I could try to convince you guys you are playing other people who are trying to enjoy themselves, but I might as well be talking to a wall. I know Forumwarrior tough guys need to put other people down to feel good about themselves.

Have a merry christmas, and you know, try being a decent human being now and then, I know it's hard for ya.

Lyons, out.

#36 nehebkau

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,383 posts
  • LocationIn a water-rights dispute with a Beaver

Posted 25 December 2016 - 10:44 AM

View PostMarquis De Lafayette, on 25 December 2016 - 07:17 AM, said:

Playing to win is the only way to go. Whatever that looks like.


There is just so much wrong with that statement that I don't know where to begin... the fact that you made it is probably a good indicator that you wouldn't listen anyway.

#37 Marquis De Lafayette

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Blazing
  • The Blazing
  • 1,180 posts
  • LocationIn Valley Forge with General Washington

Posted 25 December 2016 - 12:31 PM

Several people (including myself) on this thread are doing their best to channel Herm Edwards.

And as levity is fun and no one can quite match the original rant.

https://youtu.be/b5-iJUuPWis

Seriously though...merry Christmas and happy holidays to everyone here. We might not always agree on what is best for the game, but I am glad to that the player base cares about the future of MWO and FP!

#38 SavageConvoy

    Member

  • PipPip
  • Bad Company
  • 33 posts

Posted 25 December 2016 - 01:34 PM

Lets lay some things out. It's not war. It's a game. Say all you want to the contrary, but there is one simple truth behind this that you must acknowledge. In a war, you don't always get the option to avoid fighting. In a game you can just stop playing if it's not fun. If you find your fun in stomping an opponent repeatedly, you'll find yourself without an opponent and without a game in very short order.

In most online games they try to balance matches by skill, but due to FW low player base they decided to abandon matchmakers entirely to ensure matches can even start.

Faction Play is not an easy game to get into and Quick Play does nothing to prepare someone. There is a very steep learning curve tossed in because of the skill gap between sides. Yes it's easy to tell people to just get on team speak, after they build a drop deck of meta mechs. But when one side has significantly more veteran players for this particular game mode, it's not easy to learn fast enough before the stagnation sets in.
It takes a while to find a game, set up, and burn through 4 waves. Even when getting stomped.
A new player won't learn from this. Every thing new they try will be countered by a veteran player that isn't holding back.

I say good riddance. The game doesn't have enough of a player population to sustain itself for long in the current state.

#39 Bud Crue

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Rage
  • Rage
  • 9,123 posts
  • LocationOn the farm in central Minnesota

Posted 25 December 2016 - 01:50 PM

What is funny to me about this thread is that some of the folks with the "this is WAR! Dominate the enemy!! Win at all costs and rub the enemy's nose in their own crapitutde!" are some of the same folks who were within the last couple of months joining otn to threads essentially begging people to come play CW, despite this exact behavior and skill imbalance being precisely what drove people away from CW in previous iterations.

To paraphrase Carl Sandberg:
Sometime they'll give a war and nobody will come...and won't that just be a fun mode to play.

#40 OZHomerOZ

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Little Helper
  • 2,243 posts

Posted 25 December 2016 - 02:56 PM

View PostLyons De Flamand, on 25 December 2016 - 09:27 AM, said:

Defending being a douchebag by a game's tagline. *slow clap*

Open Steam, go to library, go to games: Hey look there it is, Mechwarrior! It is not war, if you think it is, you're taking it way too seriously. But you know, I could try to convince you guys you are playing other people who are trying to enjoy themselves, but I might as well be talking to a wall. I know Forumwarrior tough guys need to put other people down to feel good about themselves.

Have a merry christmas, and you know, try being a decent human being now and then, I know it's hard for ya.

Lyons, out.


I think.....

Posted Image

Your projecting

Edit: I never said this is war, I just alerted you to the games tag line
Some say its a war game some say its not
Opinions vary

However it is a game where one side wins and one side loses
And according to Russ it's a E-sport
And the thing about sport is .................\


View PostMarquis De Lafayette, on 25 December 2016 - 12:31 PM, said:

Several people (including myself) on this thread are doing their best to channel Herm Edwards.

And as levity is fun and no one can quite match the original rant.

https://youtu.be/b5-iJUuPWis

Seriously though...merry Christmas and happy holidays to everyone here. We might not always agree on what is best for the game, but I am glad to that the player base cares about the future of MWO and FP!


You play to win

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 25 December 2016 - 03:38 PM.






1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users