56 replies to this topic

[Holy Jackson]

since AC2s got a heat buff, I've been having fun with them at 1k+

Edited by Holy Jackson, 05 February 2017 - 11:41 PM.

[MovinTarget]

I've actually been running one of the 'whackers with 4 AC2's to great effect...

[Snazzy Dragon]

Fear the bad trade because you can't survive a torso loss if you took a competitive loadout with an XL engine.

Seek the good trade instead.

[The Basilisk]

What the OP says is all well and good but where exactly do you stuff your Gauss+PPC when you can't save weight byei using an XL reaktor ?

XL + Gauss = 85% chance to be dead after the second volley.

Oh.. yea there are mechs with Gauss in the arms....well then pls show me the mech that can carry dual Gauss and PPC, bring enough ammo AND still have enough armor/ speed to be able to keep up with Clan Mechs. Not to speak of the space disadvantage that have PPC builds due to the heatsink size in IS mechs or the outright hillarious disadvantage of low arm mounts in most IS mechs that could carry gauss in their arms. I think there are only two mechs that could be of any use and thats the Jager and the Rifleman and those two are simply too lightly armored and too large to be of much worth for trading.

MAD IIC
Kodiak
Warhawk
Direwolf

Now lets see how many Gauss carrier are there on IS side to match those babys ?

[SCHLIMMER BESTIMMER XXX]

yea use gauss exclusively.... kinda deadly for myself.
also how many mechs are there that are caopable to be a viable ppc build?
am i restricted to 4 mechs now?

[MovinTarget]

If you read through the thread, I never once said you have to use both on the same mech, just that many IS mechs have quirks for either and while for brawling, things like "er ppc velocity +50" don't mean much but trading at 600m+, its pretty handy... for example...
I was also pointing out that these weapons have advantages over their clan counterparts due to beind sturdier(guass) and cooler(er ppc) as opposed clan which may be lighter (what isn't?) And more fragile or hotter with a smidge of splash dmg. They have the same range, but clans have fewer mechs quirked to make them better, so on these 2 weapons we have and advantage in several mechs.


I didn't give builds because I am not trying to dictate what you bring, just find the one(s) that work for you, give ppc and guass a try. Learn to lead your target.

[MischiefSC]

The Basilisk, on 07 February 2017 - 01:47 AM, said:

What the OP says is all well and good but where exactly do you stuff your Gauss+PPC when you can't save weight byei using an XL reaktor ?

XL + Gauss = 85% chance to be dead after the second volley.

Oh.. yea there are mechs with Gauss in the arms....well then pls show me the mech that can carry dual Gauss and PPC, bring enough ammo AND still have enough armor/ speed to be able to keep up with Clan Mechs. Not to speak of the space disadvantage that have PPC builds due to the heatsink size in IS mechs or the outright hillarious disadvantage of low arm mounts in most IS mechs that could carry gauss in their arms. I think there are only two mechs that could be of any use and thats the Jager and the Rifleman and those two are simply too lightly armored and too large to be of much worth for trading.

MAD IIC
Kodiak
Warhawk
Direwolf

Now lets see how many Gauss carrier are there on IS side to match those babys ?

You don't. You flat out don't.

You run LPLs and you stay low and close to 400-500m, where you'll win trades using LPLs even vs gauss/PPC. The ability of a BLR 2C to put 55pts out in about 0.5 sec while running hot or 1.0 sec with brawling level heat sustainability is why it's the top tier IS assault. With high mounts and good aim you can easily CT out most Clan mechs up to a TBR with only 2 trades. If you're coordinating your poking with just 1 teammate sometimes you'll kill a Night Gyr before he gets his shot off. Dat big head! You'll hit it even through the first 50-60 degrees of his twisting away.

That or you run 5 ERLLs and stay at 800m+ and don't hill-hump straight up and down, you lean or you cut the edge of a hill laterally to the enemy. At 800-1k the damage fall off on Gauss and the velocity difference between Gauss/ERPPCs lets (quirked) ISERLLs trade favorably vs all but the top 1/10th of 1% of players. Yes, there's still a few folks who will poptart or poke with a KDK3 and get it all on target and back into cover in <1 second but those guys would kill you with a stock Spider.

Smart trades are a good choice and the IS *can* do it, it's just harder and takes a more focused loadout.

[The Errant]

And it's hard to keep that 800-1k if the clanners know that when they get to 700-500 they'll out-trade your ERLLs anyway, which they can do under cover while you're trying to back up to keep range. Which is why LPLs at 400-500 is the preferred option.

Still, especially when you're dropping in mixed teams instead of a unit 7+ group I'm finding it useful lately to put one ranged build in my deck. Pushing, brawling and mid-range trading works great when you know you can trust everybody to follow the call...but you don't always know that (or even if somebody will step up to call the drop). Against units you'll likely lose anyway for that reason alone and it won't matter what builds you brought, but against skittles/pugs in a game you might have lost because your team wouldn't close to your preferred range...it can tip the numbers. And it helps suppress enemy snipers in environments like Domination.

Edited by The Errant, 16 February 2017 - 02:25 PM.

[MovinTarget]

I haven't tried it with the DragonSlayer or other jumpy IS mechs yet, but I've found my Highlander IIc with its 3 JJ cap is much more viable now with the JJ skills for poptarting.

[MovinTarget]

Quick update: The BJ-3 seems to still be pretty viable...

[Buster Machine 0]

Agreed, trade more IS players, learn angles of engagement, learn the strengths and weaknesses of your chassis and your opponent's chassis. Clan tech isn't all that it is hyped up to be.

[Kubernetes]

Bump this thread. Learn to freaking trade. And bring appropriate weapons. If you're dropping Alpine or Polar bring ERLLs and do it right. I'm tired of seeing people bring the wrong weapons or psych themselves out and cower in a hole. "We can't trade with Clan!" Yes you freaking can, but you'll never learn how if you never try.

[Grus]

MovinTarget, on 27 December 2016 - 12:53 PM, said:

In many drops I hear people complain (IS side) about the range advantage that the Clans have..

For Pete's sake, stop looking at lasers and grab Guass and ER PPC...

1) They have the *EXACT* same range as their clan conterpart
2) Many IS mechs have good quirks for these (especially ER PPC) that make IS *SUPERIOR* to most clan mechs.
3) IS Guass is sturdier than Clan Gauss.

The reason these are considered the preferred trading weapon of &quot;try-hards&quot; or whatever you want to call the players that try to win, is because you can effectively poptart them or hill/side hump with them. Clan lasers may seem scary but learn to fire ER PPCs at range and you'll win trades versus most laser vomit because you don't have to focus a beam.

You need to learn:
Timing/rhythm to firing and recharging
How to lead a target (Its often harder for them to dodge if they are already moving.)

And finally, never stop moving yourself! Beam weapons are most effective when they can focus a component.

Build mechs that use these weapons well.

Drop in training grounds and practice your timing, poptarting ridge clearance, heat management and pinpoint accuracy.

IT IS WRITTEN! IS GAUSS HAS MORE HP THAN CLAN GAUSS! IS GAUSS OP! joking aside yea don't fear the trade... unless you're looking at a 4 gauss kdk-3.. just saying..

[MovinTarget]

Grus, on 06 June 2017 - 12:22 PM, said:

IT IS WRITTEN! IS GAUSS HAS MORE HP THAN CLAN GAUSS! IS GAUSS OP! joking aside yea don't fear the trade... unless you're looking at a 4 gauss kdk-3.. just saying..

Even the quad guass KDK has some major drawbacks what with losing a full torso very easily...

[Grus]

MovinTarget, on 06 June 2017 - 01:53 PM, said:

Even the quad guass KDK has some major drawbacks what with losing a full torso very easily...

even losing a side torso I don't have a problem. Using a standard eng is the way to go.

[MischiefSC]

Ac2s are not a trade weapon. Even AC5s are not, not really. Not against ppc/gauss.

Bring erlls or double Gauss for long range trades or LPLs for mid range trading.

Stay at 800 with erlls or get to 400 with LPLs.

Don't hang out at 600, that's CLPL + Cerml range.

Be cautious about brawling because big splat and CSPLs are a thing.

Know where your advantages are and play to them. Shorter burn is only useful if you're quick and twisting.

[DarklightCA]

Long range trading heavily favors ER Large because PPC's depend on velocity and gauss damage falls of at long range making it more mid range. When it comes to ER large clan's are a bit of a joke because of their duration which makes IS king at ER Large trading.

Clan's pretty heavily dominate the mid range with mechs that can bring a lot of mid range alpha, even with mechs like the Dragon getting big armor buffs any laser vomit ebon or timber would just shut it down from higher alpha and the night gyr just shreds anybody at mid range.

Close range brawl is really anybodies game because both sides have really good brawl mechs. A VTR-9S is a lot of tank and really good damage for just 80 tons or bringing a CP-10-Q and just face smashing everything on close range maps. As Mischief said, play your advantages.