127 replies to this topic

[Roland09]

Grus, on 29 December 2016 - 03:08 PM, said:

Hard to do when IS mech with 4 large can insta gib a shoulder at 800m.

Grus, on 29 December 2016 - 03:24 PM, said:

If this wasn't so much of a corridor shooter then id have to give you the win here. But the base attack is all a close range battle that the clan range issue (thier superiority) is a mute point.

Honestly, which is it?

[DoctorDetroit]

Grus, on 29 December 2016 - 03:08 PM, said:

Hard to do when IS mech with 4 large can insta gib a shoulder at 800m. Can't poke out to do damage when that's a normal. Add that to the more armor/better being used by IS and the face that they can alpha way more than ANY clan mech can before shutdown... yeah... I've used the "deathstar" 6er large assalt mech for IS and just wrecked face with it. But I try something like that on clan and I'll watch my mech explode.. seems fair...

I understand that you are having trouble, but it is a problem with your team's skill. I have played on both sides and even when I match up against the better teams I get above 1000 dmg 99% of the time. ​The issue is that you need to get better before flying off the handle and making wild balance accusations.

[Vxheous]

Grus, on 29 December 2016 - 03:08 PM, said:

Hard to do when IS mech with 4 large can insta gib a shoulder at 800m. Can't poke out to do damage when that's a normal. Add that to the more armor/better being used by IS and the face that they can alpha way more than ANY clan mech can before shutdown... yeah... I've used the "deathstar" 6er large assalt mech for IS and just wrecked face with it. But I try something like that on clan and I'll watch my mech explode.. seems fair...

IS mech with 4 large cannot insta gib a shoulder at 800m, learn to twist. 5ER large with a Grasshopper 5P at 800m can do 45 damage to you in 1.56 seconds of holding burn on your shoulder (that's 3ERLL @1.06 seconds +0.5 seconds to start 2ERLL burn to avoid ghost heat). In that time, you should be able to shoot back equal gauss +ERPPC damage and twist away. More skill required.

Good IS players have figured out that you either want to trade with clans within 350m, or trade with clans outside 650m (inside 350m to make use of IS mediums lack of range, and outside 650m to minimize clan ERML damage). By playing outside 650m, IS teams force clan players to have to beat them with pinpoint weapons like Gauss and CERPPC. CERLL have a stupid long 1.5second burn duration which if you have the jump on your target can still do good damage, but CERLL cannot trade long-term with IS ERLL burn duration.

The only time as IS that I would want to trade in the 450m-600m range is if I'm on a team boating 5LPL Battlemasters, and we slow press in bulk, but that risks getting XL instagibbed by good Clan firing lines.

Edited by Vxheous Kerensky, 29 December 2016 - 05:03 PM.

[Grus]

Vxheous Kerensky, on 29 December 2016 - 04:55 PM, said:

IS mech with 4 large cannot insta gib a shoulder at 800m, learn to twist. 5ER large with a Grasshopper 5P at 800m can do 45 damage to you in 1.56 seconds of holding burn on your shoulder (that's 3ERLL @1.06 seconds +0.5 seconds to start 2ERLL burn to avoid ghost heat). In that time, you should be able to shoot back equal gauss +ERPPC damage and twist away. More skill required.

Good IS players have figured out that you either want to trade with clans within 350m, or trade with clans outside 650m (inside 350m to make use of IS mediums lack of range, and outside 650m to minimize clan ERML damage). By playing outside 650m, IS teams force clan players to have to beat them with pinpoint weapons like Gauss and CERPPC. CERLL have a stupid long 1.5second burn duration which if you have the jump on your target can still do good damage, but CERLL cannot trade long-term with IS ERLL burn duration.

That would require me to have a mech or two with top or high mount hardpoints. As for the GAUSS I don't like using that wep. Rather use erppc. Haven't gotten a mech with such a set up I like yet to use that kind of play.

[Vxheous]

Grus, on 29 December 2016 - 05:05 PM, said:

That would require me to have a mech or two with top or high mount hardpoints. As for the GAUSS I don't like using that wep. Rather use erppc. Haven't gotten a mech with such a set up I like yet to use that kind of play.

Ebon Jags have that high mount you seek, Loyalty torso'ed Summoners, Hellbringers, Night Gyrs, Timbers, Kodiaks, Hunchback IIc....wait, all Tier 1 Clan mechs have the high torso mounts you seek to do Gauss/CERPPC, or just CERPPC. Gauss is also a wonderful weapon, learn it, the refusal to do would point back to another person's comments about "skilling up"

Edited by Vxheous Kerensky, 29 December 2016 - 05:19 PM.

[SlightlyMobileTurret]

I love this cycle.

Until Dec-CLAMS OP!!!
After ERML/Gauss nerf in Dec - IS OP!!
April - Kodiak + IS nerfs - CLAMS OP!! NERF BEAR (now the bear part was justified)
April to Dec - Powercreep phase - CLAMS OP!!
December - Doomcrow banned from scouting and clans tonnage limited due to power creep - IS OP!!

Even now, the Nova and the Huntsman are extremely good scouts, but people bring shadowcats and Hunch-IIC-B(which is also known as wet toilet paper cannon) to scouting and complain about IS.

I remember people asking the IS to git gud and bring SRMbomber Griffins when Streakcrows initially worked in scouting. Now that the IS is bringing SRMbombers and Shadowhawks to scouting, the clans won't bring their best.

Kneejerk is the name of the game, I guess.

Edited by Keshav Murali, 29 December 2016 - 05:43 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

You know why you're having issues Grus? Your guys lack discipline.

D'C are a tight team, and work as one. Plus they also have a couple other decent names on the board there

Exhibit A



Exhibit B

1. After failing the first wave you guys then tried to gen rush... Which is fine, happy to go with the calls. But even then you just suicided into a firing line without actually picking off 3-4 weak mechs first or turrets, just blind pushing with mis-matched builds. Half your your unit didn't have brawlers...

2. Also, from memory, going the same gate over and over. Not even trying to break up firing lines etc.

3. The big one... You guys didn't even realise that I was on your TS/Comms since the start of the match (I even said a g'day, spoke etc). Yet 2 of your players were openly bagging me out at the end for "not shooting the Omega" - when I had a jump jetting Griffin in-front of me (blocking my Omega shots). I had no choice BUT to kill him, so i could continue firing on Omega. End of the day we got it down to 3/4, but 2 mechs (the last of us) were never going to burn that last 1/4 alone, especially when once was a ACH and I was already riding 90% heat after killing off said Griffin.

4. The next game was a similar result, worse actually... I can post that screenie too if you want?


End of the day I don't care about #3. It's clear I did my best to help and I'm a big boy, but it sums up why you are having issues. For the most part, whatever mech I looked at, I killed it. Pretty sure the first wave I did 1500dmg first mech. I know where to shoot a mech to kill if. You guys don't focus, dont target XL torso's etc. Basic stuff that makes a huge difference.

I don't have time to be petty and while I'm not the best player out there, I know I'm better than average. Hence I'm well aware the choice I made was correct
The fact some members on your team did not understand this choice, and then got angry about it, is clear why you are feeling the IS tonnage pain.

Get some discipline, work on your team strategy and drop calling. Whoever was doing the drop calling wasn't very clear with instruction and you guys were just opening chatting away during combat (if you died). That just makes comms impossible to hear for everyone else.

So yeah. Take this negatively if you want. It's not meant to be, it's purely constructive from on outsiders point of view. I have no issue with your unit and would happily drop in again if I team with you guys in a match.

Check my leaderboard record and my Units. It's a lot better than yours (and my KMDD is, IMO, terrible) for a reason and that reason isn't all based on skill as we have pilots of all skill in our unit that drop FP. Some don't even crack 500dmg in a winning game. But it doesn't matter, they learn from people that do and eventually get up to the 1k marker as an average.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 30 December 2016 - 01:30 AM.

[FallingAce]

Keshav Murali, on 29 December 2016 - 05:42 PM, said:

I love this cycle.

Until Dec-CLAMS OP!!!
After ERML/Gauss nerf in Dec - IS OP!!

December - Doomcrow banned from scouting and clans tonnage limited due to power creep - IS OP!!

December 2015 I.S. OP? Clans win Tukayyid 2
December 2016 I.S. OP? Clans take 9 planets for every 1 planet the I.S. takes.

There is a pattern here, i just don't understand it.

[SlightlyMobileTurret]

Both -MS- and 228 had multiple 12 mans and both were Clan during Tukkayid 2. Not to mention KCom, BMMU and other smaller Merc corps. I'm not sure how they could have lost it for the Clans

The win percentage was 54%-46%, very respectable when most mercenaries were clanners

[Natural Predator]

No DC is a high tier comp team doing what a comp team does. There is nothing wrong with lazor vomit

[A Shoddy Rental Mech]

Keshav Murali, on 29 December 2016 - 09:27 PM, said:

Both -MS- and 228 had multiple 12 mans and both were Clan during Tukkayid 2. Not to mention KCom, BMMU and other smaller Merc corps. I'm not sure how they could have lost it for the Clans

The win percentage was 54%-46%, very respectable when most mercenaries were clanners

I.S. was also given 20 extra tons during Tukayyid2.
Clans beat I.S.
Most mercs on the clan side.

So what has changed?

10 months. of P.G.I. using The Nerf Bat on I.S. mechs has moved that number to more like 80/20.

2016 might just be the year of The Nerf Bat.

[Myantra]

justcallme A S H, on 29 December 2016 - 08:06 PM, said:

End of the day I don't care about #3. It's clear I did my best to help and I'm a big boy, but it sums up why you are having issues. For the most part, whatever mech I looked at, I killed it. Pretty sure the first wave I did 1500dmg first mech. I know where to shoot a mech to kill if. You guys don't focus, dont target XL torso's etc. Basic stuff that makes a huge difference.

Get some discipline, work on your team strategy and drop calling. Whoever was doing the drop calling wasn't very clear with instruction and you guys were just opening chatting away during combat (if you died). That just makes comms impossible to hear for everyone else.

So yeah. Take this negatively if you want. It's not meant to be, it's purely constructive from on outsiders point of view. I have no issue with your unit and would happily drop in again if I team with you guys in a match.

I can see how they might take your post the wrong way, but you gave them the best advice they will probably ever get.

[Stormie]

Myantra, on 30 December 2016 - 05:24 AM, said:

I can see how they might take your post the wrong way, but you gave them the best advice they will probably ever get.

I've been trying to get them sorted on their own forum for over six months, falling on deaf ears the majority of the time. Then to really throw it back in my face, when I went merc they revoked all my permissions on their website.

[Natural Predator]

Grus if ARC7 wants to be more competitive please hit me up in game. You guys need to start enforcing Meta builds with your guys. Ive played both with and against you. Your biggest problem that I have seen starts in the Mech Lab. I know we all struggle with new players now and again. But the fact is you guys are running quick play builds in invasion mode. When you guys are ready to take the next step BNB will be there to help you guys figure how to step up your game.

[Myantra]

Stormie, on 30 December 2016 - 05:56 AM, said:

I've been trying to get them sorted on their own forum for over six months, falling on deaf ears the majority of the time. Then to really throw it back in my face, when I went merc they revoked all my permissions on their website.

The few of them I have run across in group queue matches seemed like decent guys, so I hope they listen. Ash literally broke it down for them Barney style. That said, some people (and units collectively) simply are not interested in getting better, or taking advice on how to get better, or even accepting the fact that they should get better. I cannot understand that mindset, but it is definitely a thing in MWO's playerbase.

[Stormie]

Myantra, on 30 December 2016 - 06:16 AM, said:

The few of them I have run across in group queue matches seemed like decent guys, so I hope they listen. Ash literally broke it down for them Barney style. That said, some people (and units collectively) simply are not interested in getting better, or taking advice on how to get better, or even accepting the fact that they should get better. I cannot understand that mindset, but it is definitely a thing in MWO's playerbase.

Yeah vast majority are great guys, wouldn't have persisted for so long otherwise, but honestly I cant see them improving just by reading theory, they haven't got the critical mass of guys that know what they are doing to carry/teach the others on the fly.
Plus away too many of the usual suspects (lurmers/ mybuildisfineihatemeta/ Iwanttousemyteammatesasshields). To improve they should probably drop in four mans rather than 10+ mans and learn from.the other teams matchmaker dumps them with.
But I suspect they'll keep dropping as a group, keep not working together, and keep blaming tech imbalance and enemy exploiters.

[Myantra]

Stormie, on 30 December 2016 - 06:24 AM, said:

Yeah vast majority are great guys, wouldn't have persisted for so long otherwise, but honestly I cant see them improving just by reading theory, they haven't got the critical mass of guys that know what they are doing to carry/teach the others on the fly.
Plus away too many of the usual suspects (lurmers/ mybuildisfineihatemeta/ Iwanttousemyteammatesasshields). To improve they should probably drop in four mans rather than 10+ mans and learn from.the other teams matchmaker dumps them with.
But I suspect they'll keep dropping as a group, keep not working together, and keep blaming tech imbalance and enemy exploiters.

That is unfortunate, but I understand what you are saying. Whenever I hear "I hate meta", I just accept that the individual does not understand how the game (or meta itself) works, and whatever anyone says is unlikely to penetrate the snowflake echo chamber they have created to rationalize it. If you have many such individuals in a unit (with lurmers sprinked on top), it is never going to produce positive results.

To me, the first indicator that they are doing something wrong should have been that they ended up trying to gen rush against a team composed entirely of randoms when they dropped as a 9-man.

[justcallme A S H]

Myantra, on 30 December 2016 - 06:16 AM, said:

The few of them I have run across in group queue matches seemed like decent guys, so I hope they listen. Ash literally broke it down for them Barney style. That said, some people (and units collectively) simply are not interested in getting better, or taking advice on how to get better, or even accepting the fact that they should get better. I cannot understand that mindset, but it is definitely a thing in MWO's playerbase.

I've dropped with them a number of times over the last 6 months - I certainly have no actual beef with them. If they wanna get better. Great. If not, also great!

I just don't like to see people blame "balance", if it's not actually balance related. If it is, then absolutely - go to town on balance. I have like many others before me that know what balance means.


Like I seriously was not having a go. I just couldn't think of a easier way to sugar coat it and not lose most of the point :/

[Myantra]

justcallme A S H, on 30 December 2016 - 06:54 AM, said:

I've dropped with them a number of times over the last 6 months - I certainly have no actual beef with them. If they wanna get better. Great. If not, also great!

I just don't like to see people blame "balance", if it's not actually balance related. If it is, then absolutely - go to town on balance. I have like many others before me that know what balance means.


Like I seriously was not having a go. I just couldn't think of a easier way to sugar coat it and not lose most of the point :/

I like the way you broke it down. You gave them a specific example of what they are not doing, what they should be doing, and why they should be doing it. I also definitely agree about balance complaints where balance is not the actual problem.

[Marquis De Lafayette]

justcallme A S H, on 30 December 2016 - 06:54 AM, said:

I've dropped with them a number of times over the last 6 months - I certainly have no actual beef with them. If they wanna get better. Great. If not, also great!

I just don't like to see people blame "balance", if it's not actually balance related. If it is, then absolutely - go to town on balance. I have like many others before me that know what balance means.


Like I seriously was not having a go. I just couldn't think of a easier way to sugar coat it and not lose most of the point :/

I have dropped with them and against them. They seem like a nice group of guys, but somebody needed to say what you did. You did with more kindness and respect than many forum posters would have. If they want to get better they would do well to take to heart the advice you and some others have given, as it would benefit them.