95 replies to this topic

[Wintersdark]

Mycrus, on 01 January 2017 - 04:25 AM, said:

why not both?

You get more kills by winning more; and you die less if you lose less.

I get the OP is just being salty, because unless he's a halfwit he doesn't genuinely think K/D is really reflective of performance, and as others have said is just mad at people not doing what he thinks they should (not saying he's being unreasonable).

But ultimately, you want to play to win, because winning matches makes all your stats better overall.

Appogee is correct above with regards to which stats are actually useful for rating performance, and the flaws with each.

But ultimately KDR is terrible. Deaths aren't bad if you've accomplished a goal that pushes the team towards winning, and kills, while not bad, may not be good either: Getting the killing blow on several mechs that others have beaten down is hardly an accomplishment - after all, in a Skirmish game, if you've stripped the weapons off, say, a Stalker, it's way better to focus on mechs that can hurt you and your teammates, then deal with the Stalker later.

[The Unstoppable Puggernaut]

I made an absolute gem of a mistake recently in QP. I tried to get the team to win and died... bahahahahahahahahahaha.
Once in a while I forget.

Anyways I've been reset into pug mode again. Screw everyone else, I am just in it for me.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Kshahdoo, on 01 January 2017 - 03:48 AM, said:

Of course I mean PUGs, because PUGs play for a personal statistics and units play for wins, but 80% of games (probably more) are played in PUGs, so they do about about 4 times better presentation of the game, than organized matches.

If you play with PUGs and think people are here for the same reason as you, i.e. win the game, it's a big mistake. Wining means nothing, if you have all the mechs you need and don't need XP and CBs anymore. And thinking that w/l is that meaningful, when you play mostly with PUGs, is about as right as thinking people become politicians because they love their countries. But of course the better player the better chance he will help his teams to win more matches, so his w/l can be pretty good as well.

So if everybody is playing for kills that means everybody should stay at the back of the team and only fire upon Mechs that have already been damaged. Nobody should fire first and nobody should be in the front of the team.

Sorry that would be a terrible game to play. Thankfully there are people like me who like to push it and begin the battle. A large number of my matches end with zero kills, a very large number of assists, and around 800 to 1000 damage. Inflicting 1000 damage at the beginning of the game will more likely lead to Victory than waiting until the end of the Matched actually do anything, then mop up wounded Mechs. I do not regard those kind of players as extremely skilled, regardless of their statistics. If you're not getting kills and inflicting damage the beginning of the match then you're merely riding on your team's coattails.

People like me are the only reason why you can get lots of kills on pre-damaged enemies. You're welcome. I'm glad that I was able to make the game better for you. If you want to repay me then I will gladly accept a Warhammer pack and Hero upgrade.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 01 January 2017 - 10:33 AM.

[Wil McCullough]

Van Hoven, on 01 January 2017 - 06:34 AM, said:

Since the best way to get a high k/d ratio is standing back and abuse your team mates .. no thx.

I always wonder why ppl think a high dmg number is equivalent to skill. Sure, it says something about the qualities of a player, but it is nowhere near the be all end all. If you break 1000dmg chances are high you played like a ***** and let the team do the heavy duty.

There always are exceptions ofc. But especially in FW matches I don't get why people feel like they did good when they are on their first mech, preferrably a light or medium, out of ammo since after the first 5 minutes, when the rest of the team is on their 3rd or 4th mech. Its just... doing it wrong. Even if your team is bad and suicide rushes.. staying back not supporting them is the worst decision you can make.

you don't break 1k damage in a qp match by sitting at the back and taking potshots. to get 1k damage, you need to be dealing a lot of damage, a lot of the time, which means you're in the thick of the action and got lucky enough to not get focused. if a player breaks 1k damage, trust me he/she's more than doing his share of heavy lifting haha.

agree with you on fw though. unfortunately, most pugs don't get the whole "my mech isn't helping the team i should eject and switch" thing. i don't even think it's a selfish thing. i think it's a short-sighted thing. some pilots are more concerned with the "i need to not die to do well" method of piloting than they should be.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Oh, it's not too dfficult to get 1000 dmg in an ECM light taking potshots, but you're not as helpful as an assault Mech dealing 1000 dmg while aiding in the team's advancement. 1000 dmg spread as thin as sliced proscuitto isn't helpful unless it regularly causes the enemy to lose combat focus or lose bodyparts. 1000 dmg in a charging assault causes enemies to twist, retreat, and perform other acts (like fall into bits) that reduce their effective firepower output.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 01 January 2017 - 11:02 AM.

[King Kahuna]

Many of us do play to win. It's the way many of us are wired. I mostly play quick play and think much could be done.

Scoring could be more detailed and greater wait could be given to objectives. This is easy and no lore changes needed. I detest losing from bad play. Like domination when 3/4 of the team avoids the circle.GGGRRrrRr....

I can totally not care if someone plays bad that just started. Veterans with tricked out mechs hiding, off on their own or waiting till the other team is seriously damaged till they commit to rack up kills drive me nuts.

[chucklesMuch]

I play for fun.

The thing that most recently increased my fun was upgrading my sandy bridge to a skylake... hadn't realized how low my fps had gotten... so the game seems all about cpu

On topic... I think w/l is more important that k/d (as kill securing and hiding (to protect k/d, farm damaged mechs) is quite common)

Edited by chucklesMuch, 01 January 2017 - 11:25 AM.

[Davegt27]

should get more points for being out front (way more points)

instead of in the rear with the gear

[El Bandito]

Davegt27, on 01 January 2017 - 11:40 AM, said:

should get more points for being out front (way more points)

instead of in the rear with the gear

Perhaps additional rewards every time your allies shoot at enemies who have LoS on you and are dealing damage to you?

[Johnny Z]

Its about personal score.

MechWarrior is knights in the 31st century. Personal skill in combat wins the day regardless the spam about team work or this and that. The team with the best Mechwarriors wins.

If it wasn't 12 v12 it may be different and that argument is on going for thousands of years, such as the 300 Spartans etc. Quality vrs quantity.

What makes the "best" MechWarrior? Experience for one and that's another entire argument.

This game has done an amazing job of providing excellent scoring. Unrivaled.

Edited by Johnny Z, 02 January 2017 - 04:28 AM.

[The6thMessenger]

Not everybody gives a fuckmothering god damn about their score, they just want to play the game.

[Johnny Z]

The6thMessenger, on 02 January 2017 - 04:51 AM, said:

Not everybody gives a fuckmothering god damn about their score, they just want to play the game.

Good point. I was just going by topic title.

Edited by Johnny Z, 02 January 2017 - 04:56 AM.

[Tarogato]

K/D means nothing. It's completely invalidated by the fact that it is directly influenced by W/L, which is in turn influenced by how much group queue you play and who you play with.

Instead, look at K/M (kills per match, or "Kill rate". The website does not include this by default, but you can view it and sort mechs by using this: http://mwomercs.com/...-stats-sorting/

[Johnny Z]

Tarogato, on 02 January 2017 - 05:00 AM, said:

K/D means nothing. It's completely invalidated by the fact that it is directly influenced by W/L, which is in turn influenced by how much group queue you play and who you play with.

Instead, look at K/M (kills per match, or "Kill rate". The website does not include this by default, but you can view it and sort mechs by using this: http://mwomercs.com/...-stats-sorting/

Groups do have the advantage of putting 12 experienced well equipped players on the same team...

[Lily from animove]

Appogee, on 01 January 2017 - 04:03 AM, said:

We really need to see KMD stats. Between those and Kill stats, you'd get a more accurate picture of a players' performance.

Kill/Death isn't enough by itself, because some pathetic souls deliberately inflate their stats by kill-stealing.

Win/Loss isn't enough, because it's too much at the mercy of PUGlotto, and group carrying.

I think Match Score is probably the best proxy we have at the moment, even though it too can be artificially inflated by LRM usage (much superfluous damage), consumables usage (such as UAV spotting for the LRMers, strikes) and other weird oddities which may not necessarily indicate strong personal performance (eg. Lance in Formation, Hit and Run bonuses etc).

I don't know, I cna start shooting ST's get KMDD's and high matchscore if I want, but that doesn't actually make me kill more efficient. it just owuld make me look more skilled if those were the new "skill measurement". That feel slike the chassis event formula, where it was just about grapping KMDD's which means do the major damage on an opponent no matter of that daamge was efficient of inefficient. like SSRM spam can do this easily, yet wield a horrible kill efficiency on all mechs above 45t.

[Hit the Deck]

Can you reliably kill steal to boost you K/D? I don't think you can.

The best way to get a good K/D is to be a good pilot, which directly contributes to your W/L (and your team).

[Karl Streiger]

Hit the Deck, on 02 January 2017 - 05:54 AM, said:

Can you reliably kill steal to boost you K/D? I don't think you can.

The best way to get a good K/D is to be a good pilot, which directly contributes to your W/L (and your team).

The choice of weapons has a direct impact on the kills.

Weapons that deal damage over time but constantly - like lasers or AC2 or LRM5s have a higher profitability to "steal" a kill.
pin point weapons like PPCs or Gauss on the other hand usually "overkill" a target to get the final blow.

(there is a reason that I ask to change the kill/assist system once in a blue moon - make it relative and count them the same.
When you deal 1% dmg to a target you got a 1% assist and sum everything in the end.... 100% assists = 1 kill

Edited by Karl Streiger, 02 January 2017 - 06:06 AM.

[Zergling]

Van Hoven, on 01 January 2017 - 06:34 AM, said:

I always wonder why ppl think a high dmg number is equivalent to skill. Sure, it says something about the qualities of a player, but it is nowhere near the be all end all. If you break 1000dmg chances are high you played like a ***** and let the team do the heavy duty.

Lol no, 1000 damage is 3 times the normal an average player does per battle. Even if they spread their damage around a lot, they still did a huge amount of damage to the enemy team.

Only very rarely will a player pull off 1000+ damage while playing like a selfish jerk (except for those odd players that make a habit of it, due to playstyle).

Oldbob10025, on 01 January 2017 - 08:10 AM, said:

IDK I thought the game was to have fun, or to relax in playing a game in the first place not pad your stats?

Just saying.

Many people have fun by challenging themselves; winning battles is one of those challenges (and it is also harder to pull off reliably than high kills or high damage in the solo queue).

Wintersdark, on 01 January 2017 - 09:50 AM, said:

I get the OP is just being salty, because unless he's a halfwit he doesn't genuinely think K/D is really reflective of performance, and as others have said is just mad at people not doing what he thinks they should (not saying he's being unreasonable).

One look at leaderboard says everything that needs to be said: negative W/L, positive K/D.

OP doesn't know how to win battles because he is focusing on K/D padding, so wants the standard of skill to be shifted to make himself look better.

Tarogato, on 02 January 2017 - 05:00 AM, said:

K/D means nothing. It's completely invalidated by the fact that it is directly influenced by W/L, which is in turn influenced by how much group queue you play and who you play with.

W/L is heavily influenced by player skill in the solo queue, however.

Prosperity Park, on 01 January 2017 - 11:01 AM, said:

Oh, it's not too dfficult to get 1000 dmg in an ECM light taking potshots, but you're not as helpful as an assault Mech dealing 1000 dmg while aiding in the team's advancement. 1000 dmg spread as thin as sliced proscuitto isn't helpful unless it regularly causes the enemy to lose combat focus or lose bodyparts. 1000 dmg in a charging assault causes enemies to twist, retreat, and perform other acts (like fall into bits) that reduce their effective firepower output.

An 'ECM light taking potshots' implies long range weapons, and lights simply lack the DPS with long range builds to pull off 1000 damage reliably, so it is actually quite difficult to pull off 1000 damage like that.

Hit the Deck, on 02 January 2017 - 05:54 AM, said:

Can you reliably kill steal to boost you K/D? I don't think you can.

Its possible; I was playing the Locust 1E in Season 6/December, and managed a 3.53 K/D in it (way above my normal for lights), largely due to how I was able to use that mech to pick off damaged enemies.

Another method is to just hang back behind the team, wait for the battle to be almost over before pushing in. At that point, a fresh heavy/assault can easily score a bunch of kills against crippled enemies, even if it is alone.

Edited by Zergling, 02 January 2017 - 06:14 AM.

[Tarogato]

Zergling, on 02 January 2017 - 06:11 AM, said:

W/L is heavily influenced by player skill in the solo queue, however.

But if you play CW or any group queue, then W/L is kinda meaningless.

[VATER]

I want to know how much damage I take in comparison to how much damage I deal THAT would tell me something....