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Question Re: The Assault Lrm Taboo


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#1 Odd Thomas

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Posted 04 January 2017 - 01:47 PM

Have seen some good results from hybrid builds like the Warhawk - B
50 tubes + 5 mpl's. Have seen it used at long range but mainly mid range with just as many kills via lasers as LRM's. It also has LRM quirks...2 matches I saw were 700+ and 900+.

Have the Clan Marauders. Any suggestions as whether this hybrid build would work with Scorch or the B?

Thanks.

Edited by Odd Thomas, 04 January 2017 - 06:49 PM.


#2 oldradagast

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Posted 05 January 2017 - 04:23 AM

The problem is less that one should "never put LRM's on assaults" and more that people tend to build and play LRM assaults poorly.

1) Overboating LRM's. They pile on 60 LRM tubes with a few medium lasers - or no close-in weapons at all - and then stand there like fence posts with a dumb look on their face when the enemy is under ECM and Radar Derp or is under a roof like on HPG or Crimson. They also die horribly if an enemy gets under LRM range because they are effectively defenseless.

2) Hiding in the back. A side-effect of the first mistake (too many LRM's) is hiding in the back so that their assault level armor is never used and so that most of their missiles hit nothing.

I have 2 assaults with LRM's. One is a Warhawk with 3 LRM10's, but it also has ER-PPC's for direct fire and to break ECM. I also have an Awesome 8V with 3 LRM5's, but it also has 1 PPC and 2 Large Lasers. Neither mech needs to hide waaaay in the back, neither one is helpless at close range or if direct fire is needed, and both of them can break ECM on their own. I don't pretend to be an expert at the game and LRM's are still somewhat sub-par weapons, but some mechs are built to use them and they can give an assault something useful to do as they close for battle. Just don't pile 4 LRM15's and 1 tag laser on a mech - with nothing else - and expect anything but failure.

As for your suggested build, it would probably work fine since it has close in defenses as well as good LRM capabilities.

Edited by oldradagast, 05 January 2017 - 04:25 AM.


#3 Nerd Incognito

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Posted 05 January 2017 - 09:54 AM

I run my MAD IIC-B with 2 LRM10, 2xERPPC, and 3 MPL. It runs a little warm, but it works out fairly well. Push with the team, be aggressive, and hit hard. I've also got a couple of JJ on there for mobility and to allow mild poptarting (alright...hoptarting, perhaps). You could also drop the PPCs, go 5 MPL, and swap to LRM15s, but I like the mix for early game, and it's nice to have that 54 points of pinpoint damage sometimes (though, as I said, that can cook you--especially before you get it elited).

#4 Shadey99

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Posted 05 January 2017 - 11:08 AM

LRMs are a nice support weapon for indirect fire (fire when you don't have line of sight, like when an enemy moves behind cover). However the 'LRM taboo' on assaults comes from the fact (as mentioned above) that most LRM assaults sit in the back and barely help there team (I've seen some good awful ones who don't even know where their missiles are going). Instead they should play like the Hunchie J, with a bunch of direct and indirect fire options.

I use LRMs as an indirect support weapon on several builds, usually mechs with 1 or 2 missile hardpoints (since SRMs are nicer in groups of 3 or 4). My current lineup includes both the MAD-IIC-8 with an LRM20+6xERML+1 ERPPC. As well as a a MAD-IIC-B with a pair of LRM20s, 4 ERML, and a LPL. My Scorch I run as a brawler (and it's usually good for 3-4 kills per match) before running short on ammo.

#5 Steel Raven

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Posted 05 January 2017 - 02:56 PM

A couple of bad matches that stood out in my mind, both had LRM assaults. One escort mission, last team mate was on the opposite end of the map, shooting his LRMs into the dirt because he was to afraid to peak over the hill. Got killed by a light because the Stalker had no backup weapons.

The following match, last team mate alive was a LRM Kodiak walking around in circles (maybe he was drunk) he had Clan LRMs (no minimum range) and medium lasers so there was no real excuse for him to hide.

I gave LRMs a try myself, my performance was awful and swapped to SRMs. Some people can LRM, others should know when to quite.

#6 Shadey99

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Posted 05 January 2017 - 03:56 PM

View PostSteel Raven, on 05 January 2017 - 02:56 PM, said:

One escort mission, last team mate was on the opposite end of the map, shooting his LRMs into the dirt because he was to afraid to peak over the hill. Got killed by a light because the Stalker had no backup weapons.


I think I may have been in that match, or one identical to it. Stalker LRM boat with no backup weapons and he shot buildings and hills on Frozen City as the last mech standing. Not engaging any enemies on purpose before a light ended him.

#7 Steel Raven

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Posted 05 January 2017 - 04:50 PM

My match was on Tourmaline Desert but sounds like it could have been the same Stalker.

#8 Bespoke Cheese Cake

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Posted 05 January 2017 - 05:18 PM

I use a Highlander-IIC for Assault lurming. Keep in mind I use it for fun and unique circumstances only. Personally I would refrain from putting lrms on the Marauder-IICs. If you want to put lrms on an Assault I'd recommend experimenting with the following chassis: Awesome, Stalker, Highlander-IIC, Warhawk and perhaps the Mauler.

#9 Chill Bill

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Posted 07 January 2017 - 06:12 PM

Rarely play LRM mechs, but have 3 that i take out of storage on occasion for the fun of it.

Best, consistent performer for me has been the one mentioned by OP, the hybrid WHK-B. Have an Awesome (fun nostalgia) and the Highlander IIC (slightly less backup firepower and slower but about +100 armor over the WHK). Now, with the bigger maps, you can tenderize as you close in and then inflict pain (5 mpl's with WHK) when you are in dancing range.

(one of the 2 kills below was with mpl's)
Posted Image

Edited by Chill Bill, 07 January 2017 - 06:42 PM.


#10 Yogge Mothi

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Posted 07 January 2017 - 06:57 PM

So, I'm THAT guy.

Build: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...df51862af37cca0

My Scorch has 4xLRM20+Art, TAG, CAP, and 2,160 missiles (w/ XL350, Radar Dep, Adv Target Decay, and LRM20 Cooldown 5). I'm Tier 2 and I'll tell you right now the effectiveness of LRMs on an assault is completely dependent on how aggressive you are with them. My goal in each game is to remain with front line brawlers and engage the enemy between 250-450m, where they can't dodge the 80 damage alpha. I remain unseen as much as I can, but as an 85t assault I'm never afraid to show myself to TAG an enemy and trade with them if they're alone. Even with the spread, 80 damage will out-trade most laser vomit builds as long as you torso twist to spread their damage as well. When an enemy brawler gets fed up w/ your LRMing and starts to charge, steadily back up into the main body of your team and let them rip the target apart. Stay with your team and you'll find this build ridiculously fun to play. Today I got a 1173 damage game where I actually ran out of ammo by the end of the match. When this happens, I tend to target enemies w/ TAG and follow them around until my allies kill them. XD

#11 JudauAshta

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Posted 08 January 2017 - 02:58 AM

the thing is lrm boats work twice as good if you close the distance and play them aggressively.

tag + artemis + los + lrm = lots of damage, you can also fire your back weapons if in range for them.

imo lrms that play more aggressively help the team win more.

sadly that's not the case and you usually see a assault with full health outnumbered against the enemy team with only lrms as his weapons

#12 AncientRaig

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Posted 12 January 2017 - 09:39 PM

I think the taboo is less LRM assaults and more "support assaults". I've seen people take assaults and hide 3 grid squares behind the team, trying to ER PPC snipe in a 90 tonner. That kind of gameplay is just aggravating, because you know you could do more if this guy was soaking his fair share of damage, but because he's so far away the entire team dies and this guy is at or near perfect condition and has barely contributed in any meaningful way. I run a frankenmech build on one of my Battlemasters, just for fun. 2 AC5, 6ML, and a PPC. It's hot, but at nearly 80kph it's fast and it can crank out the damage very quickly. It's not a front-liner in the same vein as an AC20+SRM Atlas, but I still play aggressive and try to take hits when my team needs the meatshield.

#13 Trollfeed

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Posted 12 January 2017 - 10:42 PM

For IS mechs hybrid lurms aren't that good, but oh boy how they work with heavier clan mechs. For example you can fit huge xl engine on MAD-IIC-B with full jumpjets, 5 medium pulse lasers and two big lurms with artemis and still have room for more heatsinks and ammo than any IS mech can carry.

Edited by Trollfeed, 12 January 2017 - 10:42 PM.


#14 The6thMessenger

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Posted 12 January 2017 - 11:52 PM

View PostTrollfeed, on 12 January 2017 - 10:42 PM, said:

For IS mechs hybrid lurms aren't that good, but oh boy how they work with heavier clan mechs. For example you can fit huge xl engine on MAD-IIC-B with full jumpjets, 5 medium pulse lasers and two big lurms with artemis and still have room for more heatsinks and ammo than any IS mech can carry.


Frigate would like to disagree. :P

#15 Odd Thomas

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Posted 13 January 2017 - 05:01 PM

So, put these together from the mechs I own. what order would you rank them? Warhawk looks nice...Highlander has the armor but slow...

Awesome 8R - 55 Tubes, 3 X mpl, speed 65.3, Armor 480
Highlander IIC-A – 50 tubes, 4 X mpl, speed 58.5, Armor 558
Marauder IIC-B- 40 tubes +A, 5X mpl, speed 74.8, Armor 480
Warhawk-B – 55 tubes, 5 X mpl, speed 69.7, Armor 460

or Scorch with 4 X LRM15 + 2 X LL's? Was intending it to be a brawler, but lately with the larger maps, sniping....brawling builds often equal kamikaze builds.

Edited by Odd Thomas, 14 January 2017 - 04:58 PM.


#16 Roughneck45

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Posted 14 January 2017 - 11:03 AM

View PostOdd Thomas, on 13 January 2017 - 05:01 PM, said:

So, put these together from the mechs I own. what order would you rank them?

They will all play the same, so I'd pick whatever you feel you roll damage with the best.

Use smurfy to make your builds and share them. http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/

#17 Midgie

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Posted 24 January 2017 - 07:01 AM

My best mech is a Mauler with 4xLRM-15s, TAG, and an ER LL. It is everything that you are not supposed to do according to these forums. It is an assault, LRM boat with an XL engine and one laser for backup. The biggest reason people say LRM boats don't bring anything to a match is that they see others trying to hang back at 800m to hide while throwing missiles haphazardly at the enemy. This is especially noticeable when that person is in an assault. However, if you stay with the group, get your own locks, aren't afraid to get your armor scratched, and know how to twist to spread out damage taken, you can be a great asset to the team.

#18 charliedelta76

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Posted 24 January 2017 - 03:19 PM

I dont see the problem...
Having LRM in an assault is smart...
You have to engage your enemy at BVR (Beyond Visual Range)
Then when you run out of Missiles engage start brawling and pray that you have taken down
enough of their armor to be effective.

Hit them before they hit you.

#19 Old-dirty B

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Posted 25 January 2017 - 12:01 PM

So... LRM Assault pilots..., while you guys are busy raining missiles - whos there on the frontline next to me leading the charge and push onto the enemy or holding back an enemy "tunnel" push?

#20 SuperFunkTron

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Posted 25 January 2017 - 01:18 PM

View PostOdd Thomas, on 04 January 2017 - 01:47 PM, said:

Have the Clan Marauders. Any suggestions as whether this hybrid build would work with Scorch or the B?


For the Scorch I made a bit of a hybrid out of it. I left the stock arms with a large pulse laser and UAC 5 in each. I usually fire off one at a time (and double or triple tap the UAC-5) before using the other. I set up the missile racks with a LRM 10 and Streak 6 in each torso. If you add the streak 6 range mod, you can use those at almost 400 meters. That means you've got close to 200 meters of overlap where you can use both your streak srms and lrms in there optimal ranges. Just use the arms accordingly in that range to make sure you don't over heat and you quickly become an amazing support mech who can share armor and cause a lot of damage.

I'm considering dropping the Large pulse lasers due to heat and replacing UACs with 10's but I haven't gotten around to it yet.





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