15 replies to this topic

[Galanarus]

Hi there,

as a newbie with not that much gametime and regarding that much info about mechs, game mechanics etc. there is nearly no chance of having no questions and unknowingness.
The most concerning question to me is, which mech to buy first.

Although the fact that I haven't completed the first 25 matches and I mostly read "Play the trials and see how you get along with each class. Then you can make a decision.", i must honestly say that
the trials don't satisfy me ( besides the Hunchback-IIC a bit).
I know that is not the most important thing, but as a long-time MMORPG player the appearance of the mech does matter to me and there are very few in the trials I would like to own.
But after seeing many vids and reading lots of threads I already recognised that for my playstyle the weapons slot must be high enough for safely peaking and also be spread through the different sections
to being able to return even if there's one section missing.
I will not go with lights or assault in the first place. Playing the trial Heavys wasn't that fun for me ( would like to try Jagermech or Hellbringer instead), but with the Hunchback-IIC I had some fun.

Although I tend to clan mechs, I am not pretty sure about them, due to the fact that I hardly understand why they don't have quirks as the IS' have.
Are the IS mechs that worse than clans' that they need these quiks to be competable?

As for the medium clan mechs, there would be the HB-IIC as the only one I would go, but as this I would like to try something different.
As for heavy there are Jagermech and Hellbringer I have an eye on. ( as i have seen some nice videos of them )

My preferences in playstyle is midrange, neither longrange nor close combat. I like sticking together with the team and help out where anyone is in need.
I am not interested in being the best damage dealer.

So my main concerns are:
- Clan or IS mechs?
- Medium or Heavy mechs? (and which would fit for me).

Thanks in advance for tips, offering criticism and advices.

Ray

[Rogue Jedi]

I will avoid sugesting any Mechs for now, but rather give you some more information so you can narrow down your criterior a bit more

Clan Mechs
price
tend to have a higher starting price but by the time you have fully upgraded an IS Mech there tends to be little in it and in many cases the Clan Mech will work out significantly cheeper

customisation
most Clan Mechs (all but the Kodiak and IIC Mechs which are Battlemechs) are Omnimechs, that allows you to swap body parts with a dicerant varient to get that varients hardpoints, allowing far more weapon customisation than Battlemechs, in exchange for this there is no customisation of the Mechs base configuration, you cannot change engine, there are fixed heatsinks, you cannot change structure type, armor type, heatsink type, however you can change ammount of armor, some Mechs have other fixed equipment including but not limited to Active Probes and Jumpjets

weapons
Clan weapons are almost always hotter than IS weapons, but in exchange for the extra heat they tend to have 2 or 3 of the following charactoristics compaired to comparable IS weapons; lighter, less bulky, longer range, do more damage per shot


Inner Sphere Mechs
with all the advantages I listed of Clan equipment you may think Clan stuff is flat out superior but that is not the case

cost,
while Inner Sphere Mechs generaly require a lof of money spend on upgrades they are a lot cheeper to purchase than Clan Mechs, and while the engine you want can cost 4-6 million that engine can be removed and transferred to another varient, so if outfitting one Mech there will be little price diferance if you move the expensive engines you can still save a significant ammount by buying IS

Customisation,
most Clan Mechs are Omnimechs that means the Mechs none weapon config is usualy locked, with an IS Mech if you decide it is too slow you can usualy put in a bigger engine, and there are usualy weight saving upgrades available, Double Heat Sinks seriously increases the Mechs heat effincency, an XL engine weighs half what a standard with the same rating weighs, but does make the Mech vulnerable to death by side torso loss, Endo Steel Internals and Fero Fibrus armor offer weight savings in exchange for taking up 14 slots (7 for Clan), Endo offers more weight for the same number of slots so always get that first and only grab fero if you have more than 14 slots left after loading your desired weapon loadout

Weapons,
with the general superiority of Clan weapons why would you take IS?
well first you cannot take Clan weapons on an IS Mech, but in fact many of the IS weapons are better despite the Clan tech being smaller, lighter, longer range and doing more damage per shot, IS weapons tend to be significantly lower heat, meaning an IS Mech can keep firing longer, but the big advantage is discharge times, pretty much every IS weapon has a much shorter discharge time than the comparable Clan weapon, laser beam time tends to be about 1/3 shorter. Clan LRMs fire a stream of missiles while IS LRMs fire all missines in a single volly, making them far less suseptable to AMS, and IS Auto Cannons fire a single shell for there damage number where as Clan ACs fire a burst of shells to reach that damage number, all this translates to IS weapons having a significantly faster rate of fire than Clan weapons, and it being MUCH easier to place all your damage in one place with IS weapons


Medium vs Heavy Mechs

in MWO there is no clear distinction between medium and heavy Mechs, there is very little diferance in terms of combat capability between a 55 ton Medium Mech and a 60 ton Heavy Mech, on the whole lighter means faster but less durable and heavier means more durable and more heavily armed, but the Jenner IIC is a 35 ton Mech capable of running at 156 with a 72 damage alpha strike (if you are willing to forgo armor and take very little ammo) nowever many heavy Mechs can only manage a 50 alpha, so a Mech with twice the weight may have a significantly lower ammount of firepower.

there are some Mecium Mechs which can barely match the speed of most of the Clan heavies, and there are Heavy Mechs capable of going 100kph which many mediums cannot.
unfortunately that all comes down to the specific Mech
but on the whole lighter for speed and agility, heavier for firepower and durability

[Natred]

Shadow cats good investment in the clan medium section, huntsman when they come out for cbills. Really all the Mechs have their own niche and unique feel. Stick to a chassis and master/elite 3 of them to get the full potential from Mechs i recommend so definitely plan ahead.

As far as inner sphere Mechs I would recommend the Phoenix hawk and black jack.

Edited by Natred, 13 January 2017 - 02:45 PM.

[Rogue Jedi]

Natred, on 13 January 2017 - 02:42 PM, said:

Stick to a chassis and master/elite 3 of them to get the full potential from Mechs i recommend so definitely plan ahead.

the 3 varients to complete the skill tree requirement is likely to be removed soon (5-9 weeks, date not yet confirmed) they are completely redoing the skill tree, we do not yet have full details on the new tree but any recomendations to buy 3 to get the best out of the Mech should be taken with the knowledge that the requirement will soon be removed

[Void Angel]

Galanarus, on 13 January 2017 - 12:20 PM, said:

Although I tend to clan mechs, I am not pretty sure about them, due to the fact that I hardly understand why they don't have quirks as the IS' have.
Are the IS mechs that worse than clans' that they need these quiks to be competable?

Yes. Clan 'mechs don't have as many quirks as the Inner Sphere because they don't need them. The Clan tech base is better - though this is not PGI's intent in game design - and the superiority of their upgrades and engines combined with a few optimal chassis (high mounts, etc) give the Clan 'mechs better base performance than the Inner Sphere. Thus, the quirks were introduced to compensate; the 'mechs with more quirks were typically the 'mechs whose performance lagged behind farther than the norm.

Once the new skill system comes out - Soon^tm - PGI will roll the quirk bonuses into the 'mechs' skill trees. I'm sure, however, that they'll eventually come around to fixing up the Inner Sphere's tech disparity. PGI (and many of us playing) want the Clans to be different technologically, while still maintaining balance - but the Clans weren't balanced in tabletop, so there's a tension between following tabletop weapon and upgrade stats and balancing the game. For a while, balance was pretty close; the Clans' hard-locked equipment and upgrades, locked engines, and frequent reliance on arm-mounted weaponry largely made up for their superior guns. But as PGI has filled out the 'Clans' 'mech stables, more recently we've seen the rise of Clan Battlemechs with good hardpoint sets and hitboxes, along with Omnimechs whose engine tonnages are more optimal. These changes have shifted balance back over toward the Clans, so right now their 'mechs are objectively more powerful. They still have chassis you should avoid, but if you're picking up any of the most popular, you'll not go wrong.

As for your main question, you probably do want Clans for your preferred tonnage and playing style. For middle range the Clans' Large Pulse Lasers and UAC/10s are ideal, and while Clan 'mechs do seem more expensive, in practice the difference is minimal. The reason for this is that while an Inner Sphere 'mech requires extensive refitting from the tabletop canon variant you typically buy from the store, the Clans are usually already upgraded with what you'll need. There are only a few exceptions to prove the rule, and in general, the costs are the same.

[jss78]

First, welcome mechwarrior!

It's been said in earlier messages, but it's a kind of a tricky time to give suggestions. In the next several weeks, the skill system will be totally revamped, and there are big unknowns about what this'll do to 'mechs. That said though, 'mechs which generally meta friendly geometries and hardpoint combinations will still be good.

You say your chosen play style is mid-range fire support, with medium-to-heavy 'mechs. Mine too, but specific 'mech suggestions are difficult, as they are a highly personal thing... and get more difficult all the time as we get more and more 'mechs...

But my PERSONAL favourite for medium range support is the Crab. With STD engines it's very robust -- it loses side torsos easily, but doesn't lose many weapons with that, so it stays in the fight. Decent mixture of speed and firepower. For example I might imagine my CRB-27 would be a good way get started in low tiers. ML's and LL's are easy to hit with, the 'mech is quite survivable, and the dual AMS keeps you safe against the LRM's which are common in low tiers. But again, 'mech preferences are super personal.

I might steer away from JagerMechs as an early 'mech... It's actually really good for the play style you describe ... but they are a bit tricky. They have this barndoor torso, usually run vulnerable XL engines, and aren't really fast. Doing well in them requires quite good situational awareness IMO -- where to put yourself and not get gunned down.

[Cupid and Psyche _]

In the lore, IS 'mechs are (for the most part) inferior to clan 'mechs. Quirks are constantly changing, though... i.e. they aren't indicative of how good or bad a 'mech is.

Hellbringer, Hunchback IIC, or Jagermech are all fine choices for a first 'mech. The Hellbringer would be a bit more forgiving than the Jagermech.

The Hunchback IIC is regarded as the best medium 'mech in the game.

As for picking mediums or heavies, that's too broad of a question to ask: it depends on which medium or heavy 'mechs you're talking about.

You could always save up the money and buy all three, but that would be a big investment.

If I had to suggest one based off of the information you have given, it would be the Hunchback IIC.

[Koniving]

Galanarus, on 13 January 2017 - 12:20 PM, said:

Although I tend to clan mechs, I am not pretty sure about them, due to the fact that I hardly understand why they don't have quirks as the IS' have.
Are the IS mechs that worse than clans' that they need these quiks to be competable?

The term "balance" is often thrown around a lot when it comes to the two sides, quirks, etc.
In general, barring specific cases, PGI has chosen to use quirks to help the IS side due to a number of proclivities regarding Clan mechs. The first and foremost being that from the source material, Clan technology

Spoiler

(due to having never been lost and continued advancing while the IS went into 300+ years of brushfire wars during the first two major succession wars after 80+% of the entire galaxy's military, scientists, etc. abandoned them [becoming the 'Clans'], most of what was left of was obliterated in huge campaigns to destroy enemy advantages...wiping out entire technologies from the people that understood them to the factories that produced them...)

is lighter, more compact, and generally far more accurate (or in PGI's translation, simply longer ranged) than IS tech. Sure this comes with other issues, hotter lasers, 'longer beam times', burst fire ACs, etc. (Ironically Clan tech is more lore-bound than IS tech is in MWO; there is no such thing as 'single shot = full rated damage ACs and that is a huge pet peeve of mine; that is the Mech Rifles.).

There's a lot of lore reasoning behind these things, but the overall thing to take from this is that in PGI's translation: Clan mechs are superior at range. Beyond this their stock builds are also superior; battle ready from the box in MWO's environment. IS mechs require a number of modifications from their stock nature to be able to compete in how MWO has developed -- ultimately making IS mechs cost as much or more than Clan mechs in some cases (wanna save cbills; get ones that already have double heatsinks and XL engines instead of buying XL engines outright; the cost is cut by more than half!)

In turn, through quirks (and other 'things' about their weapon systems), IS mechs tend to be a LOT more dangerous at closer ranges. This comes up to the point where it is better (safer) to fight against a Clan mech up close... and against an IS 'Mech from afar.

As for general quirks, there is also the added issue that due to what I feel is a very poor 'translation' of Battletech fact into MWO, IS mechs with XL engines die instantly if a side torso is destroyed. Clan mechs could survive losing a single torso. The "fact" is that a mech is disabled if it sustains three engine crits; for XL engines the IS mechs have 3 in each side torso and Clan mechs only have 2. Truth be told in BT, both sides would often lose mechs without them losing any torsos at all, due to through-armor crits from the more 'devastating' Front Loaded Damage weapons like Gauss Rifles and PPCs.

[Koniving]

Welcome to MWO...

I know you liked the HBK IIC but want to stray from it... but honestly my 'Mech suggestions are the HBK IIC (Clan) and the HBK (IS).

From there, consider Jagermech, Rifleman, and the Jager's little cousin the Blackjack. Though these are technically anti-air (Jager and Rifleman) and anti-infantry (Blackjack), they make great medium range fire support mechs that move with the pack. In other words they fit right in with what you want.

[Galanarus]

Hey there,

thanks for all the advices and statements.
It really clears up much and my understanding of the mechanics has truely progressed. My first intentions seem to be not that bad after all.
I've already read about the upcoming changes to the skill tree but this won't make my decision more easy.
But I find the whole game really exiting and after starting BT tabletop some weeks ago with some friends I really lost myself into the BT universe in reading novels, corebooks etc. and of course sitting behind a 'real' battlemech

So my first mech to buy isn't decided today but I know now which mechs I have to study more.
Thank you all for giving such a great welcome in this community.

Ray

[Koniving]

Galanarus, on 14 January 2017 - 12:51 PM, said:

So my first mech to buy isn't decided today but I know now which mechs I have to study more.
Thank you all for giving such a great welcome in this community.

Ray

You're very welcome. Definitely wait until you finish your first 25 matches first (your name will no longer be baby blue) that way you know exactly what kind of cbill budget you have, too.

If you're interested, I play tabletop online and am always looking for more people to play it with. I also knew of a group that has a dedicated branch that goes just for tabletop under the Skye Rangers. I need to get in touch with them again.

[Galanarus]

Koniving, on 14 January 2017 - 06:48 PM, said:

If you're interested, I play tabletop online and am always looking for more people to play it with. I also knew of a group that has a dedicated branch that goes just for tabletop under the Skye Rangers. I need to get in touch with them again.

Thank you for your offering. That seems very interesting and maybe I will come back to this in later days. At the moment my time for being able to play online games is a little bit limited due to my job and family.
But I think in the near future (and after reading lots of rulebooks I sure will find the time for this.
Hopefully we will find overlapping time, because I am from Germany and if you come from the US there will be the time shift of about 6+ hours
But I am looking forward to.

Besides, I haven't made a decision to my first mech yet, 'though I played the 25 matches. I will now go playing without knowing if to buy or not buy

[Jingseng]

Rogue Jedi, on 13 January 2017 - 03:07 PM, said:

the 3 varients to complete the skill tree requirement is likely to be removed soon (5-9 weeks, date not yet confirmed) they are completely redoing the skill tree, we do not yet have full details on the new tree but any recomendations to buy 3 to get the best out of the Mech should be taken with the knowledge that the requirement will soon be removed

We think the requirement will soon be removed. We are fairly certain it will be removed (because 'PGI said so'), and that it will be in February, but it could always be pushed back or changed or reneged, etc. Depending on how competitive you are, obsessive-collective, etc, it could still make sense to purchase multiples of a mech (personally, i have stopped doing so, at least where omnimechs are concerned)

[Koniving]

Galanarus, on 16 January 2017 - 01:22 PM, said:

Thank you for your offering. That seems very interesting and maybe I will come back to this in later days. At the moment my time for being able to play online games is a little bit limited due to my job and family.
But I think in the near future (and after reading lots of rulebooks I sure will find the time for this.
Hopefully we will find overlapping time, because I am from Germany and if you come from the US there will be the time shift of about 6+ hours
But I am looking forward to.

Besides, I haven't made a decision to my first mech yet, 'though I played the 25 matches. I will now go playing without knowing if to buy or not buy

No worries. I'm not sure when you can play, but I'm usually on during my afternoons and nights (and your posts are during my late afternoons) so I think we'll be fine.

You won't have to read the rule books to be able to play using Megamek (unofficial PC tabletop). It handles all the rules for you. Though you're welcome to read all you want.

[JC Daxion]

Well, i still say go play trials...


At least drop in..

Jenner IIC (srm brawler)

Spider, (it's a good build)

panther will let you try PPC's

All 4 trial mediums are good, one clan and one IS are longer range pulse weapons, the griffin is an SRM+energy medium range mech, the HBK IIC is a medium range ballistic monster

the heavies

ebon and dragon are gauss, grasshopper medium range pulse, and orion IIC a brawler

assaults

Highlander and zeus are more brawlerish, the warhawk mixes long ranger pulse and a gauss, the Stalker runs a nice 4XLRM10 build


seriously, these mechs will let you try many different styles and to get used to the weapons.. PUt a good 5-10 drops in each before you move on. It will give you a 10X better idea on what you actually like.. and just dropping once and saying i don't like it honestly does not cut it. I can't tell you how many times I've dropped in mechs that took me 50+ matches before i finally found a grove.


Buying a mech with out playing 50-100 matches IMO is bad advice.. Some may disagree. This coming from the guy that played his first 130 matches in a Dragon.. (almost the same build as that trial) By the time i wanted to play something of my own, i had enough money to out fit, A dragon, 3 HBK's and an atlas...and shortly after starting on the HBK's i bought catapults.

Having all that extra money to make your life much easier from actually playing and learning the game will make your first purchase a much better one.

[DJZ05]

as a fellow newbie who had similar issues at first, heres what i did.

I did play the trial mechs, trying out different ones to find my niche. Then I followed guides and bought a jagermech since it seemed to fit my playstyle (high mounts for peeking, can brawl). Messed around with it in mechlab, but in the end I it just wasnt for me and I just didnt like it.

Made a second account and this time I had a better picture of what I liked. Played my 25 matches and bought/kitted out my favorite mech in any battletech game.

Tl:dr
Dont be afraid to play around and buy random mechs you think you like with your cadet bonus cbills. Mess around with it and get a better idea of what you like, then make a new account and startover with a much better understanding of what to buy.