42 replies to this topic

[MacClearly]

Yeah this doesn't make sense. It makes more sense to me to limit two mans to 65 tons and let them drop in solo.

[Dimento Graven]

Novakaine, on 13 January 2017 - 03:54 PM, said:

Ok ya bunch o sad sacks I'm done here.
Everyone loves baked potatoes that's a given.
Oh and Prosperity my sock puppet says I'm the best.
So there.

BEST.SOCK.PUPPET.EVER!
BEST.SOCK.PUPPET.I'VE.SEEN.TODAY!

Edited by Dimento Graven, 13 January 2017 - 04:15 PM.

[RestosIII]

Dimento Graven, on 13 January 2017 - 03:58 PM, said:

BEST.SOCK.PUPPET.EVER!

Incorrect. Schlupi will always be the best sock puppet.

[Dimento Graven]

RestosIII, on 13 January 2017 - 04:10 PM, said:

Incorrect. Schlupi will always be the best sock puppet.

Hmmm...

Ok, I acquiesce and change my statement to:

BEST.SOCK.PUPPET.I'VE.SEEN.TODAY.

I stand corrected sir.

[Bud Crue]

Revis Volek, on 13 January 2017 - 02:38 PM, said:

Because 12 mans are the boogie man, they get the short end of the stick all the time and just quietly roll with the punches anymore and playing as 12 is actually a bad idea anyway.

Actually, it would seem that based on the numbers anything over 3 is the boogie man. The tonnage difference between 7-12. I mean seriously? 60 tons to 50. Gimmie a break.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Group Queue is how New Players experience the game for the first time when they drop with a friend d or 2 friends who are trying to convince them to be a MWO player.

Group queue should cater to 2-3 man groups for the sake of the NPE.

Large groups can play hardcore mode of they want a hardcore match.

Note to all the elitists: you were a potato once, and without potatoes this game dies.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 13 January 2017 - 04:32 PM.

[DeRazer]

MacClearly, on 13 January 2017 - 03:56 PM, said:

Yeah this doesn't make sense. It makes more sense to me to limit two mans to 65 tons and let them drop in solo.

People have been saying that for ages. The advantage of a two-man team was even shown to be tiny (like 1-2%) and considering that QP Solo Queue is basically "for fun" I still don't see why they are against it.

But I can see why PGI are doing this, there have been a lot of 5-6 player groups on from the "good" teams in the last few months and the "matchmaker" has an unnerving habit of putting them all on one side against 3-4 smaller (and in most cases dramatically worse playing) groups. Combined with the current weight limits they do tend to stack heavies along with an ACH..

Thus the inevitable 12-0, 11-1, 10-8 losses...

BUT... it's just a game. Play it for fun. If you want life and death go and fight in a war somewhere - there's dozens to choose from.

[Vxheous]

Prosperity Park, on 13 January 2017 - 04:30 PM, said:

Group Queue is how New Players experience the game for the first time when they drop with a friend d or 2 friends who are trying to convince them to be a MWO player.

Group queue should cater to 2-3 man groups for the sake of the NPE.

Large groups can play hardcore mode of they want a hardcore match.

Note to all the elitists: you were a potato once, and without potatoes this game dies.

Yeah, I was a potato once, then guys like Koreanese stomped my face in, and I realized I had to git gud. Now, we have potatoes that would rather remain potatoes and drag the average down, instead of bringing the average up.

Edited by Vxheous Kerensky, 13 January 2017 - 04:44 PM.

[Novakaine]

[RestosIII]

Vxheous Kerensky, on 13 January 2017 - 04:43 PM, said:

Yeah, I was a potato once, then guys like Koreanese stomped my face in, and I realized I had to git gud. Now, we have potatoes that would rather remain potatoes and drag the average down, instead of bringing the average up.

I'm pretty sure the NPE shouldn't involve someone getting curbstomped to help player retention.

[Andi Nagasia]

um 12mans didnt get Nerfed did they?

and if the Data showed that 4-8mans where winning by an Abundant % then wouldnt this Change be Warranted?

[Deathlike]

RestosIII, on 13 January 2017 - 06:15 PM, said:

I'm pretty sure the NPE shouldn't involve someone getting curbstomped to help player retention.

You can't realistically expect perfect skill-handholding when people make mistakes, on both ends.

I don't like curbstomping, but at times you have to do your part to not screw up to prevent it from happening. Otherwise you're part of the problem.

[MischiefSC]

Vxheous Kerensky, on 13 January 2017 - 02:47 PM, said:

Solo queue that way ------------------->

Exactly. There is a solo queue for what's going down in derp town. Or any of a billion casual solo games.

Group queue in MWO is an unusual environment in that it's a place to PLAY at playing in a group. It's not RHoD or MRBC. Not even close. However it's group focused-

That's why it's the group queue and not pug queue.

Ffs people, why do we need to pug up the effing GROUP queue?

There's no way this is going to add players. The experience of bads isn't going to change at all, other than they'll be getting stomped by more tonnage as groups split into 3 groups of 3 instead of 1 group of 9.

That and the people who do play in groups will just play less.

What's not going to happen is magically bad players will win more. They'll just find something new to blame.

Maybe we can make the game not work if TS is active?

[FupDup]

It would be nice if the "potatoes" weren't consistently placed in matches against veterans in the first place, so that silly bandaids like tonnage limits wouldn't be considered.

Wishful thinking I guess.

[MischiefSC]

Prosperity Park, on 13 January 2017 - 04:30 PM, said:

Group Queue is how New Players experience the game for the first time when they drop with a friend d or 2 friends who are trying to convince them to be a MWO player.

Group queue should cater to 2-3 man groups for the sake of the NPE.

Large groups can play hardcore mode of they want a hardcore match.

Note to all the elitists: you were a potato once, and without potatoes this game dies.

No, training area should let you play with 3 people in coop.

The steady elimination of environments to play in groups for the baseless illusion that doing so "helps the NPE" is a special sort of stupid.

So the result will be those new players getting demolished by 4 3mans in KDKs and Night Gyrs instead of an 8man of mediums and a 4man of heavies.

In no way, shape or form does forcing groups to not play with their friends in the group queue keep new players from losing if they're playing against experienced players.

[Deathlike]

FupDup, on 13 January 2017 - 06:40 PM, said:

It would be nice if the "potatoes" weren't consistently placed in matches against veterans in the first place, so that silly bandaids like tonnage limits wouldn't be considered.

Wishful thinking I guess.

The population of skill is always being diluted. That's how our balance overlord gains his power.

[Novakaine]

Player retention?
Thirty days normally fixes that.
They leave.

[Pjwned]

It's not that I'm not sympathetic to smaller groups at all, and I know it's a problem for people to try to introduce their friend to the game only to get stomped in group queue, but I wanted to see less tonnage restrictions if anything.

The goal should really be to make faction warfare more attractive (hint: the maps & modes being actually fun helps a lot) so that more serious groups (and even casual groups too) actually want to play there instead, and group queue would then be a more casual setting.

If more tonnage restrictions for 3-10 man groups actually helps out the 2 man groups though so that people can play with their friends who are new to the game then I guess it's acceptable, but I have a feeling it's really not going to help all that much and it will just be annoying to 3-10 man groups without accomplishing a whole lot.

We'll see though I guess.

[WarHippy]

Prosperity Park, on 13 January 2017 - 04:30 PM, said:

Group Queue is how New Players experience the game for the first time when they drop with a friend d or 2 friends who are trying to convince them to be a MWO player.

Group queue should cater to 2-3 man groups for the sake of the NPE.

Large groups can play hardcore mode of they want a hardcore match.

Note to all the elitists: you were a potato once, and without potatoes this game dies.

That is nonsense. New players expect to lose at first until they get a better grasp on how the game works etc.. The thing that caused everyone I have brought into the game to leave are the stupid restrictions on playing together. If I and a couple new players all buy a new assault mech we can't all use our new toy and play together. This leads to people either not buying new mechs getting bored and leaving, or buying new mechs but being forced to play by themselves getting bored and leaving. Punishing people for playing together has always been one of the things that has hurt this game more than just about anything else. It is hard to have a thriving community when being a community is actively hindered.

[Bud Crue]

Apropos to this thread and the changes proposed to group queue tonnage:

Last night, as is typical for a Friday evening of drops, we had a group of mixed Tier players (all present) numbering from 5-10 throughout the evening. While it was a particular bad evening of play (Aside: two matches with a dev on the other side where energy weapons were not registering, two players head shot from behind and the escort atlas was taken down in 1 second...wth? But never mind) where we lost probably 10 out of 12 matches or thereabouts, what is of note is that this sort of play is typical. You see we are not super players, constantly running meta builds, and forming a dreaded 12-man to stomp puggies. We are just a group of folks who play together.

Our performance under the current tonnage restrictions is middling to awful (see above), and now with the changes put forth by PGI I suspect our chances of winning will be even more reduced. These tonnage restrictions will not imho improve the NPE they do not affect the dreaded 12-mans (they were at 50 tons before and they still are). No, these changes just harm the casual groups. That sucks.