83 replies to this topic

[Hit the Deck]

Cabusha, on 14 January 2017 - 12:04 AM, said:

An engine that is only 75% as good as the clan equivalent. Sooo yea you can stop that nonsense.

LFE has more merits than just a tool for balancing against the cXL.

[Juodas Varnas]

Hit the Deck, on 14 January 2017 - 12:39 AM, said:

LFE has more merits than just a tool for balancing against the cXL.

If you call "obsoleting standard engines" a merit, i guess...

[Hit the Deck]

Juodas Varnas, on 14 January 2017 - 12:40 AM, said:

If you call "obsoleting standard engines" a merit, i guess...

I see it as bringing another option for IS as IS still need their STD since their equipment takes more space compared to Clan (read: STD is for special builds only which absolutely need it).

[Furi0us Ge0rge]

Yeonne Greene, on 13 January 2017 - 09:14 PM, said:

The heat penalty isn't much of a penalty, though. When you lose an ST, it typically takes a large portion of your firepower with it. So your two or three lasers left-over fire a little hotter, big deal. That's not going to really hurt your output. And even if it does, we're getting to a point where being able to survive an ST loss is a useless feature. What then?

It is, actually if you think about it - if a 75 ton mech loses a ST with half its weapons, its now got the mobility of a 100 ton mech, and the firepower and heat efficiency of a 35 ton mech. How is that a threat? Yes, its more of a threat than a dead mech, obviously, but its so weak as to not be a worry to anyone.

Im not actually saying it matters much, because im strongly of the opinion that mechs do 80% or more of their contribution to a match before losing any ST at all, so im not raging about the extra 20% heat efficiency loss (though it will make shield side builds fairly pointless, since you wont be able to fire anymore without shutting down), i just wish they would make IS XLs not die on ST loss, because you could make C-XL lose 90% speed and 90% heat efficiency, and people would still complain that the XL is what breaks the balance.

[Oberost]

Furi0us Ge0rge, on 14 January 2017 - 03:09 AM, said:

It is, actually if you think about it - if a 75 ton mech loses a ST with half its weapons, its now got the mobility of a 100 ton mech, and the firepower and heat efficiency of a 35 ton mech. How is that a threat? Yes, its more of a threat than a dead mech, obviously, but its so weak as to not be a worry to anyone.

Im not actually saying it matters much, because im strongly of the opinion that mechs do 80% or more of their contribution to a match before losing any ST at all, so im not raging about the extra 20% heat efficiency loss (though it will make shield side builds fairly pointless, since you wont be able to fire anymore without shutting down), i just wish they would make IS XLs not die on ST loss, because you could make C-XL lose 90% speed and 90% heat efficiency, and people would still complain that the XL is what breaks the balance.

Because is just one of the things that break the balance. Not the only one...

[Tristan Winter]

And so it begins. 6 months of theory crafting. RAC5s, heavy gauss, ATM, etc, etc.

Wild speculation, hypothetical balance discussions and forum flame wars.

But at least we get some new tech at the end of the tunnel, which is good.

[El Bandito]

Hit the Deck, on 14 January 2017 - 12:44 AM, said:

I see it as bringing another option for IS as IS still need their STD since their equipment takes more space compared to Clan (read: STD is for special builds only which absolutely need it).

Only for builds that use 3xAC5s in the ST, perhaps, such as the 5xAC5 Mauler build. But that build will be obsoleted by the LFE Mauler with 4xUAC5s.

[Hit the Deck]

El Bandito, on 14 January 2017 - 04:14 AM, said:

Only for builds that use 3xAC5s in the ST, perhaps, such as the 5xAC5 Mauler build. But that build will be obsoleted by the LFE Mauler with 4xUAC5s.

And AS7-S "The Brawler" as another popular example.

Still, whether STD will fall into even more obscurity is of little concern since it's pretty much already obsolete in this current firepower-centric environment.

The fact is that IS will have more options in their hands and that is a good thing IMO.

And with the arrival of Heavy Gauss Rifles, you are pretty much locked into STD if you want to use that weapon. Another good reason for STD to be relevant. A bit ironic, yes, because the reason their relevancy is IS' less capable tech.


EDIT: english is hard

Edited by Hit the Deck, 14 January 2017 - 08:52 AM.

[Widowmaker1981]

Oberost, on 14 January 2017 - 04:04 AM, said:

Because is just one of the things that break the balance. Not the only one...

The actual thing that breaks the balance is the 7 slot endo, and the 7 slot, 50% better, ferro. The XL is far less of a thing than that even now, because the endo and ferro give massive extra boosts to the initial, full powered, build, where most of the damage is done. But people dont explicitly see the effect in game, so they dont complain about it.

[Hotthedd]

In 3060 Mixtech was a thing.


Just sayin'

[Metus regem]

Hotthedd, on 14 January 2017 - 06:05 AM, said:

In 3060 Mixtech was a thing.


Just sayin'

Hence my comment about 'dumpster fire'....

[Novakaine]

PGI Timeline:
Mechcon 2017 surprise announcement.
Ninety days til PTS implementation - March 2018.
Another 30 days for testing - April 2018.
Another 30 days for minor tweaks - May 2018.
Another 30 days mitigating forum rage by various factions - June 2018.
Final implementation - July 2018.
Copied from PGI whiteboard under the wheel of nerfs by micro drone.

Edited by Novakaine, 14 January 2017 - 07:46 AM.

[topgun505]

Give clans ATMs. I mean as far as new non-advanced/experimental tech ... what else is there? Heavy lasers? Do you REALLY want to see what a clan light with heavy lasers could do in a single volley? Hint ... no you don't. About the only other thing I can think of would be Plamsa Rifles.

IS? THEY can do with some love. Light class engines, definitely. Streak 4 and Streak 6 racks? Definitely (though balance will need to be careful considering you have things like the 9 MSL-rack Archer roaming around). Snub PPCs? Hmmm ... maybe. Light PPCs? That could be interesting. Oh ... and most definitely ER Medium and ER Small lasers. Plasma Rifles for IS as well might be interesting .... though with that weapon you have to make sure you can't stun lock players indefinitely. Inferno missiles? Might be possible (although, again, have to watch for stun locking).

[DrSaphron]

I honestly hope the new tech wave will take the current PPC+gauss meta by the ankles and stomp it into thee ground. We NEED diversity to keep things interesting!

[Bishop Steiner]

BLOOD WOLF, on 13 January 2017 - 09:24 PM, said:

Aiming a bit high? might as well.

Me. Don't think so. It's one of the few truly solid Mediums the fits into the Operation Bulldog era. It's possible they will timeline jump to the FedCom Civil War, but I really doubt it, as the window they have given themselves feels too short for PGI to try to implement, and balance that much added tech.

Also note, I'm HOPING for it, not demanding it, unlike what we've seen with some chassis. I'm still hoping for a Vulcan to round out my IS Medium Collection (and a Dervish would be welcome, too, TBH), but again, not demandin, or even campaigning for it.

That said for Clan Mechs, I believe the Arctic Wolf and Vapor Eagle are the two best remaining candidates. Considering that odd fondness I have for 40 tonners, the AW is my preference of the two, though the Vape is probably the better robot.

[pbiggz]

[Y E O N N E]

Furi0us Ge0rge, on 14 January 2017 - 03:09 AM, said:

It is, actually if you think about it - if a 75 ton mech loses a ST with half its weapons, its now got the mobility of a 100 ton mech, and the firepower and heat efficiency of a 35 ton mech. How is that a threat? Yes, its more of a threat than a dead mech, obviously, but its so weak as to not be a worry to anyone.

Im not actually saying it matters much, because im strongly of the opinion that mechs do 80% or more of their contribution to a match before losing any ST at all, so im not raging about the extra 20% heat efficiency loss (though it will make shield side builds fairly pointless, since you wont be able to fire anymore without shutting down), i just wish they would make IS XLs not die on ST loss, because you could make C-XL lose 90% speed and 90% heat efficiency, and people would still complain that the XL is what breaks the balance.

I have thought about it a great deal. My issue is that it weakens the benefit of surviving an ST too much, and that has several ramifications, including:

> 'Mechs with mediocre hit-boxes being even easier to gimp than now and requiring more structure quirks to offset
> IS LFEs potentially sharing the same penalties because the same number of crits go boom, even though the engine overall is worse
> Reducing the difference in flavor between IS and Clans by making them behave more similarly (dead vs. dead-man-walking)

I would much rather they do what I said in the quoted post. The durability issue is not explicitly dying on ST loss, it's lower time-to-kill for isXL as a result of the STs having less hit-points than the CT. If the STs are buffed to be even with the CT when an XL is equipped (assuming optimally shaped 'Mech), then that shortcut is gone.

topgun505, on 14 January 2017 - 07:57 AM, said:

Give clans ATMs. I mean as far as new non-advanced/experimental tech ... what else is there? Heavy lasers? Do you REALLY want to see what a clan light with heavy lasers could do in a single volley? Hint ... no you don't. About the only other thing I can think of would be Plamsa Rifles.

Clans don't get Plasma Rifles, they get Plasma Cannons. Not quite the same thing; the former does damage, the latter does not.

Quote

IS? THEY can do with some love.

LIGHT. AUTO. CANNONS.

[Bishop Steiner]

note the term "3060+" so...could be Jihad Tech Jump. Or could be a 3061/2 cutoff. Just saying.

[FupDup]

El Bandito, on 13 January 2017 - 11:26 PM, said:

NGyr is basically 5 tons heavier Nova Cat.

The key difference is that the NC lacks FF, giving it far more critslots to build with. The Gyr is kind of hard to build with for the same reason as the Warhawk: You run out of slots faster than tonnage most of the time.

The main benefit here is that the NC can actually use energy-focused builds due to these slots (for DHS), and having more builds of other types is nice too.

Edited by FupDup, 14 January 2017 - 12:48 PM.

[Bombast]

Wait... does this mean the Inner Sphere is getting Targeting Computers?