16 replies to this topic

[Tarogato]

This is the only "mode" in the Academy that I find to be of continued usefulness. It's great because there's a lot of different spawn locations, and random mechs always spawn at seemingly random intervals with random damage applied. So I can run around and practice snapshotting at mechs, or practice hitting individual hitboxes while moving, or practice my pinpoint aiming by going for cockpits.


I'd like to request a few things, apologies if this is too much to read, but each point is at least can be considered independently of the others:



1. a larger roster of mechs to shoot at. Half of them should be Clan. If there is a cap on the number of mechs that be loaded into memory at once, just have it randomly select a roster of mechs before loading the map itself, so that every time you enter the Academy it's a different set of randomly spawning mechs


2. a new UI element in addition to "CANCEL EVENT" that just repairs your mech and replenishes ammo.


3.more spawn locations. It only takes one session to memorise where all the current ones are (I believe there are about 20?), so you start to expect mechs around certain corners and in certain spots. Needs more variability.


4. also... more spawn locations. As in... the orange represents where the current spawns are and where I'd like to see more spawns added, and the yellow represents new areas where I'd like to see spawns added.


5. if would be nice of there was an option to enable a basic AI which just torso twisted and turned legs to make the mechs harder to hit. I imagine something simple like, every two or three seconds the AI decides whether to start facing the player, or to try facing 90 degrees from the player (hence "shielding" its CT). The AI for Captain Adams is already very similar to this.


6. apply this Target Practice "mode" to all Testing Grounds in general. Several ways of going about this...

- by default. When you enter Testing Grounds, it spawns mechs randomly just as it would in Target Practice, and when you kill them they respawn in random locations. Utilise the entire map for spawn locations, even for maps like Polar and Alpine.

- as an option. Entering Testing Grounds would occur as it does now, only spawning the eight "fixed" mechs in their usual locations (these mechs should respawn if you kill them). If you step on a "Target Practice" beacon, the "fixed" mechs are de-spawned and the game re-initialises by respawning your mech and spawning the random Target Practice mechs.

- as an option. On the frontend, imagine a universal "Training" button. From there you are presented multiple options, which are

"Mechwarrior Academy Basic Training"
"Explore Academy"
"Testing Grounds" (select map)
"Targeting Practice" (select map)








Barely-related question: is it possible to load mechs into memory while a session is in progress? Id est... for a mech to be present during the course of a match/session, does it absolutely have to have been loaded in during the map loading screen?

[Dave Forsey]

From what I understand, the memory limit exerts itself on minimum spec machines, and we pre-load for multiplayer optimization reasons, and cryengine doesn't do a good job of unloading resources so eventually, even with a fairly good machine, it's going to go boom if we keep loading and unloading mechs.


It's interesting that "target practice" is the challenge that kept its value for you. The Battlefield has some of what you want - but they do shoot at you. Thanks for the feedback - we didn't have the backend database tie-in required to track how people use the Academy when it was created, so we can't tell from this end.

As for updates to the Academy, it's way down on the priority list below new features and fixes for the online game itself. As a small company we just don't have the bandwidth.

[Tarogato]

Dave Forsey, on 16 January 2017 - 10:10 AM, said:

It's interesting that "target practice" is the challenge that kept its value for you. The Battlefield has some of what you want - but they do shoot at you. Thanks for the feedback - we didn't have the backend database tie-in required to track how people use the Academy when it was created, so we can't tell from this end.

Well, the Battlezone has mechs that shoot at you. So it's not as useful for practicing aim, because eventually they deplete your mech and you have to respawn over and over again and walk the distance back toward the Battlezone. Plus the LRMs coming in from UAV locks and such are very irritating.

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From what I understand, the memory limit exerts itself on minimum spec machines, and we pre-load for multiplayer optimization reasons, and cryengine doesn't do a good job of unloading resources so eventually, even with a fairly good machine, it's going to go boom if we keep loading and unloading mechs.

Ah this makes sense. Cheers for the details. =]

So you could still set a larger roster of mechs and just have a random subset of them selected on pre-load?

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As for updates to the Academy, it's way down on the priority list below new features and fixes for the online game itself. As a small company we just don't have the bandwidth.

Understandable. I wouldn't be surprised if anybody that helped with Academy might be contributing to MW5 now.

[Dave Forsey]

Re: Random selection before loading

Yes, if the roster was read from a file - which it is not. I mentioned in some other thread about my original intention of rotating through the showcase mechs, and a file with a list of mechs was the way it would have been implemented. But now we get back into the realm where any change requires a full QA re-testing and we're back to bandwidth and priority issues. A situation that is not anyone's first choice, but it's reality - even for bigger companies. (And I'm full time on MW5)

[Lily from animove]

Dave Forsey, on 17 January 2017 - 12:12 PM, said:

Re: Random selection before loading

Yes, if the roster was read from a file - which it is not. I mentioned in some other thread about my original intention of rotating through the showcase mechs, and a file with a list of mechs was the way it would have been implemented. But now we get back into the realm where any change requires a full QA re-testing and we're back to bandwidth and priority issues. A situation that is not anyone's first choice, but it's reality - even for bigger companies. (And I'm full time on MW5)

why not giving the player the chance to choose like 5 mechs form a list to be spawned in the academy? that woudl solve the issues you named.

[Dave Forsey]

Lily from animove, on 19 January 2017 - 08:49 AM, said:

why not giving the player the chance to choose like 5 mechs form a list to be spawned in the academy? that woudl solve the issues you named.

Better yet, let the player take a Mech into the Academy from the store without needing to buy it first.

This was one of the original design features - no need for continual testing, a big "try before you buy" sales angle... but don't ask why it was cut, it just fell below the cut-off line.

[BodakOfSseth]

Dave Forsey, on 19 January 2017 - 08:57 AM, said:

Better yet, let the player take a Mech into the Academy from the store without needing to buy it first.

This was one of the original design features - no need for continual testing, a big "try before you buy" sales angle... but don't ask why it was cut, it just fell below the cut-off line.

Instead of dropping into into Academy, would it be a heavy lift to take a mech from the store into the Testing Grounds? Clearly being able to customize a 'mech before buying it would be *extremely* useful, but not really necessary.

Still, I'd go nuts over being able to test drive a mech before buying it, customized or not (especially if I could test drive the Hero or Champions first, since they're going to be closer to your final build on that variant).

For example, right now I'm trying to decide if I should go for the Catapult or the Cicada, or something else.
Ultimately, since I can't *know* beforehand, I'm probably going to buy neither and just wait for my Bushwacker to come in.

Edited by ScottAleric, 19 January 2017 - 12:11 PM.

[Dave Forsey]

ScottAleric, on 19 January 2017 - 12:08 PM, said:

Instead of dropping into into Academy, would it be a heavy lift to take a mech from the store into the Testing Grounds? Clearly being able to customize a 'mech before buying it would be *extremely* useful, but not really necessary. Still, I'd go nuts over being able to test drive a mech before buying it, customized or not (especially if I could test drive the Hero or Champions first, since they're going to be closer to your final build on that variant). For example, right now I'm trying to decide if I should go for the Catapult or the Cicada, or something else. Ultimately, since I can't *know* beforehand, I'm probably going to buy neither and just wait for my Bushwacker to come in.

Just curious, why would you want to go into the testing grounds rather than the Academy that has all those nifty turrets that tell you how much damage you're doing, plus the little "icy" and "hot" spots to look at heat performance?

BTW. I also wanted to be able to pop into the Academy from the Mechbay without having to buy the equipment first... but there was additional security and technical issues with that one.

[BodakOfSseth]

Dave Forsey, on 19 January 2017 - 12:15 PM, said:

Just curious, why would you want to go into the testing grounds rather than the Academy that has all those nifty turrets that tell you how much damage you're doing, plus the little "icy" and "hot" spots to look at heat performance?

BTW. I also wanted to be able to pop into the Academy from the Mechbay without having to buy the equipment first... but there was additional security and technical issues with that one.

Why? well - a few reasons:
1. Learning the map in relation to the mech. For example, some mechs are tall, others short. An obstacle that one cannot see over (say a Locust), grants zero cover another mech (say a Grasshopper). Weapon placement on the mech vs terrain. If it has jump jets enough to get over some terrain. How deep the water is on the mech. Low-hanging terrain that tall mechs cant get under. Etc, ad nauseum.
- Having a chance to explore the geometry of particular maps in relation to unpurchased mechs would be very valuable.

2. Heat. Standing on the "hot" or "cold" spots, while useful, I don't think does not give the full measure - movement affects heat a little, IIRC. moving, shooting, etc are things that cannot be tested in the Academy but can be tested in Testing Grounds.

Don't get me wrong - given the choice, Academy is more useful overall, it seems more like a practice ground for one to dive deeper into a mech they own, try out different load outs and scenarios. From what you were saying, Test Driving an unowned mech into Academy is clearly a heavy lift which would require more resources than PGI can expend.

If you can drop into Testing grounds to Test Drive a mech - well, that's (to me) an acceptable compromise, and what Testing Grounds ought to be for - more than just testing mechs you already own.

if I'm test driving something? Keep it simple. Geometry. Speed. Heat. Size. Feel. I'm new to the mech.
Also - I get that the additional security would be necessary - that's why I'm saying don't even bother with testing alternate builds prior to purchase.
Look - The mechs that cost cash money to get, the Heroes, the Champions, both of those come (in a lot of cases) in the style you would want to use them in-game. Fairly valid meta-friendly builds (sure, not perfect). Getting the non-hero chassis, the ones that may only cost C-Bills to obtain, they're not as important. They're the ones that desperately need a refit before you can properly test them, and that's what the Academy is for, after you've bought the mech.

Test driving a Champion or Hero in the testing grounds against targets that don't shoot back will give the player a good baseline on what to expect AND gives the potential buyer a chance to try out the top-of-the-line mech, as opposed to fussing about with a poorly built standard variant, OR struggling to refit a standard variant and then testing it.

I can't tell you how many times I've shied away from buying a mech because I've not driven it, even the stock version. For me, the best salesman you have right now for new mechs is spectating someone else piloting a mech after I've died.

Edited by ScottAleric, 19 January 2017 - 03:23 PM.

[Dave Forsey]

Just a note:
All the "heavy lifting" would have been in the backend to somehow get you in Mech you don't own (and not in your database entry) and drop you in a level, all the while retaining the state needed to put you back in the store where you left off.

With all that in place it wouldn't make much difference what level you're dropped in. So in that mythical land of unicorns, rainbows and unlimited time and resources - you'd get your choice where to drop.. pick either.

[Void Angel]

Did someone say unicorn rainbows!?

[BodakOfSseth]

Dave Forsey, on 19 January 2017 - 03:33 PM, said:

Just a note:
All the "heavy lifting" would have been in the backend to somehow get you in Mech you don't own (and not in your database entry) and drop you in a level, all the while retaining the state needed to put you back in the store where you left off.

With all that in place it wouldn't make much difference what level you're dropped in. So in that mythical land of unicorns, rainbows and unlimited time and resources - you'd get your choice where to drop.. pick either.

I assume PGI has considered "renting" or "leasing" a mech?
What if, for a small fee, (maybe if you have premium time active, and perhaps an open mech bay) you could temporarily "buy" a mech you want to try out? say, 10% of the total cost of mech, either MC or Cbills and it puts it in your account for a day? Then it wouldn't matter where they drop with it. It would resolve the issue of choosing which levels to drop in.

Depending on how the back end works for modifying and saving loadouts, you might prohibit customizing the mech (thus avoiding any extra work about making sure any equipment used or taken out can't be resold or the user doesn't lose cbills for customizing it.)

BTW, Thank you so much for actually being around and answering questions - it's a great way to help us understand PGI a bit better and to give us a little extra - delighting your customers.

Keep it up.

[Void Angel]

Dave Forsey, on 17 January 2017 - 12:12 PM, said:

Re: Random selection before loading

Yes, if the roster was read from a file - which it is not. I mentioned in some other thread about my original intention of rotating through the showcase mechs, and a file with a list of mechs was the way it would have been implemented. But now we get back into the realm where any change requires a full QA re-testing and we're back to bandwidth and priority issues. A situation that is not anyone's first choice, but it's reality - even for bigger companies. (And I'm full time on MW5)

Er, speaking of MW5, what're the odds that work on the Unreal engine there could be leveraged into an upgrade for MWO?

[Dave Forsey]

Void Angel, on 19 January 2017 - 08:13 PM, said:

Er, speaking of MW5, what're the odds that work on the Unreal engine there could be leveraged into an upgrade for MWO?

We will know a lot more about using UE4 once we're out of pre-production. I don't think a valid technical assessment is even possible without rummaging around for a while in the back closets and cellars of UE4 to find what little surprises are awaiting.

[Void Angel]

Dave Forsey, on 20 January 2017 - 09:11 AM, said:

We will know a lot more about using UE4 once we're out of pre-production. I don't think a valid technical assessment is even possible without rummaging around for a while in the back closets and cellars of UE4 to find what little surprises are awaiting.

That makes sense - but are you wanting to do that if it's possible, is what I'm asking.

[Tarogato]

Dave Forsey, on 19 January 2017 - 03:33 PM, said:

Just a note:
All the "heavy lifting" would have been in the backend to somehow get you in Mech you don't own (and not in your database entry) and drop you in a level, all the while retaining the state needed to put you back in the store where you left off.

Interesting... how are trial mechs handled, then? are they somehow temporarily added to each player's inventory with some special flags "can not sell" "can not edit" etc, ?

Dave Forsey, on 19 January 2017 - 12:15 PM, said:

Just curious, why would you want to go into the testing grounds rather than the Academy that has all those nifty turrets that tell you how much damage you're doing, plus the little "icy" and "hot" spots to look at heat performance?

I like to hop into Canyon or Tourmaline to see how a mech feels with heat performance while navigating terrain - ie., jumpjetting up ridges, over rocks, hillhumping spots, poptarting spots, side-peeking spots, how much I get to cool down traveling from one place to another, and consistent heat performance (in the Academy, the "hot spot" and "cold spot" only apply while standing on them, you don't get the freedom to move around )

Also, I'd rather skip that "Welcome" black screen on entering the Academy. The best thing about the academy is the respawning and repair beacon. I wish you could also Eject as well, as sometimes you blow weapons off yourself or run out of ammo and can't overheat to kill yourself and respawn.

Edited by Tarogato, 20 January 2017 - 06:50 PM.

[Lily from animove]

Dave Forsey, on 19 January 2017 - 08:57 AM, said:

Better yet, let the player take a Mech into the Academy from the store without needing to buy it first.

This was one of the original design features - no need for continual testing, a big "try before you buy" sales angle... but don't ask why it was cut, it just fell below the cut-off line.

this too of course, but it will require a kind of "dummy" slot that allows the player to config how (s)he want's. this is really a missing features because experimenting new loadouts is quite expensive and unaffordable for newbies low on cbills. I really hope the emch acedemy gets a better rework, because the same mechanic/concept/features of the academy could eb used in MW5 too, so that would ahve a lot of synergy effects.