25 replies to this topic

[Ripnfly]

I am a founder and a clan player these is my feelings of the game experience after coming back and playing for a month...

For FP if the best build for IS mechs' is always 1 type of weapon or build then balance needs to be seriously looked at again.

I feel like every match is now battle masters with LPL vomit, or grass hoppers with LPL vomit, it makes playing lighter mechs (under 55 tons) UN-enjoyable eating a 50+ alpha or stronger is fine, if different weapons systems are used - Missiles, AC, and Lasers but when most skilled pilots can perform a vomit 4 times in a row (Cool Shots) within 20 seconds it really takes away from the fun of what Mech Warrior is supposed to be and shortens fights especially 2 on 2 or 3 on 3 engages.


I don't understand why all lasers cant be linked to the heat scale it leads to "playing" with the system.
PPC's went through it, Gauss (pre-Charge up triple gauss builds) AC (release of Dire wolf - crabs Kodiak)

4 PPCS is basically 100 heat this prevents the Cheese,
You cant charge more then 2 gauss - prevents Cheese.
NEW!, You cant fire more then 2 large lasers of any type without ppc style heat penalties
NEW!, You cant fire more then 1 Large and 3 small lasers of anytype without ppc style heat penalties.
I think the 6 small medium link has been reasonable
NEW! ALPHA penalty for every weapon fired 1 heat is added, 1 weapon normal 2 weapons 1 additional heat, 3 - 2 heat, 4- 4 heat 5 - 12 heat 6 - 16 heat. 7 - 8 -9 16 heat is the cap this is with any weapons MGs excluded.


I see the same broken system again and again, single weapon platform builds are part of the game but there is hardly any controlled fire, the whole game has become ALPHA STRIKE with lasers for the majority of my fights.

Edited by Ripnfly, 15 January 2017 - 10:11 PM.

[Starbomber109]

UACs would probably be useful but confusingly they now have increased heat generation...

I don't think lasers are that bad tbh. The burn duration means that there is usually some damage spread around. Clans and IS are doing the same thing, both sides favor laser vomit because it's easier to play. PPFLD is harder to manage, but I have seen it slowly come back into popularity. The PPC now has some utility in knocking off ECM for a little bit. The problem for IS PPCs is imo more the min range. IS mechs tend to play closer so they want a PPC without a min range (the ER PPC) but the ER PPC generates way more heat. The LPL generates less heat and is decent at mid-range, better at closer range. Usually why it wins out.

[naterist]

Ripnfly, on 15 January 2017 - 10:07 PM, said:

I am a founder and a clan player these is my feelings of the game experience after coming back and playing for a month...

For FP if the best build for IS mechs' is always 1 type of weapon or build then balance needs to be seriously looked at again.

I feel like every match is now battle masters with LPL vomit, or grass hoppers with LPL vomit, it makes playing lighter mechs (under 55 tons) UN-enjoyable eating a 50+ alpha or stronger is fine, if different weapons systems are used - Missiles, AC, and Lasers but when most skilled pilots can perform a vomit 4 times in a row (Cool Shots) within 20 seconds it really takes away from the fun of what Mech Warrior is supposed to be and shortens fights especially 2 on 2 or 3 on 3 engages.


I don't understand why all lasers cant be linked to the heat scale it leads to "playing" with the system.
PPC's went through it, Gauss (pre-Charge up triple gauss builds) AC (release of Dire wolf - crabs Kodiak)

4 PPCS is basically 100 heat this prevents the Cheese,
You cant charge more then 2 gauss - prevents Cheese.
NEW!, You cant fire more then 2 large lasers of any type without ppc style heat penalties
NEW!, You cant fire more then 1 Large and 3 small lasers of anytype without ppc style heat penalties.
I think the 6 small medium link has been reasonable
NEW! ALPHA penalty for every weapon fired 1 heat is added, 1 weapon normal 2 weapons 1 additional heat, 3 - 2 heat, 4- 4 heat 5 - 12 heat 6 - 16 heat. 7 - 8 -9 16 heat is the cap this is with any weapons MGs excluded.


I see the same broken system again and again, single weapon platform builds are part of the game but there is hardly any controlled fire, the whole game has become ALPHA STRIKE with lasers for the majority of my fights.

its like your proposing energy fraw, but specified to energy weapons only.

[Ripnfly]

I was just looking back at an old video back when we had 8 on 8, I see a huge amount controlled fire and extended brawling all in one game, Alpha and cover is part of the game and that's fine, and its an important part of the game but cool shots and vomiting feels the same as the PPC or quad or triple Gauss apocalypses. It doesn't feel as bad as the SRM or LRM apocalypse.

[Ripnfly]

Minimum range on IS ppc is stupid and needs to be removed.

[Fake News]

is erLL is getting out of hand.

[MechaBattler]

They tried to address the size of alphas with Energy Draw. I personally thought it was an interesting idea. Especially when they also added lower heat cap and a higher dissipation to the PTS. Unfortunately people really really really love their big alphas.

Also if it's boring for you. How do you think they feel? I'm sure they'd like to try other stuff, but they have to be optimized to do well.

[justcallme A S H]

Ripnfly, on 15 January 2017 - 10:07 PM, said:

I am a founder and a clan player these is my feelings of the game experience after coming back and playing for a month...

For FP if the best build for IS mechs' is always 1 type of weapon or build then balance needs to be seriously looked at again.

Since the ballistics hammer that came down I've had to stop using UACs because they are absolutely shithouse now.

Also the IS AC heat for ACs as well.... That hurt a couple mechs of mine that I love bringing to the hot maps.

No surprise Laser Vom has now become such a focus.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 15 January 2017 - 11:35 PM.

[Sjorpha]

The large pulse laser is the only IS laser that is balanced with clan lasers, and all other weapons are situational or plain bad.

Balance all the tech properly like the LPL vs cLPL and you'll see more diversity.

[Willard Phule]

Ripnfly, on 15 January 2017 - 10:29 PM, said:

Minimum range on IS ppc is stupid and needs to be removed.

They did remove it. It's called the "ERPPC." Neither the Clan or IS ERPPC has a minimum range.

As for the regular PPC having a minimum range....it's supposed to. Same as LRMs having a minimum arming range.

[Boclos]

I voted no even though I think the OP has a point. There is a limit to the number of LPL's you can fire together, but at the optimum range the firing pattern for the medium and LP lasers is basically the same. Especially if you bring a LPL cooldown module and Med las range module.

There are several clan omni's that can bring 2 CLPL, 6 ERML, and have enough heat capacity to alpha twice, as fast as the cooldown allows. I think this is possible since the marauder IIC patch heat capacity increase which made these kind of builds way more viable. IS might not be able to bring 3 LPL and 6 ML, because of tonnage and hard point restrictions but it is esentially the same tactic.

So, it may not be a bad idea to link ML and LL for heat penalties. This will increase the spread of damage, but not reduce the dps. Maybe do something like 3 ML = 1 LL for clans and 2 ML = 1 LL for IS.
I'm not sure how to implement it though. I think it will be hard to code and hard to adapt to for players.
The advantage is that you don't die if you aiming at something and forget to torso twist in the second that the enemy timber is firing its alpha, which is annoying.
Energy draw was much easier but penalized brawlers compared to ranged builds because it was based on damage.

Having said that I don't feel that the laser vomit is currently much too strong compared to dakka builds, srm brawlers, or ppc/gauss gunners. These builds appear very often and are used with great success.

[SmokeGuar]

Since C-LPL nerf they really are very close to each other, except ghost heat related. IS variant has huge advantage on ghost heat.

5 * LPL = 56.00 , 6* LPL = 79.80 heat
5 * C-LPL = 87.20, 6 * C-LPL = 121.20 heat

If IS assault is boating LPLs, it can alpha them. On clan boats same will result overheating. If Clan mech loses torso, firing more than 2 will result explosion. Clearly IS LR and LPL need ghost heat check.

[exiledangel]

@smokegear we have the ghost heat problem just the only builds out there have a -10% energy heat quirk and and we jam enough heat sinks on it to deal with it

[FallingAce]

Ripnfly, on 15 January 2017 - 10:07 PM, said:

For FP if the best build for IS mechs' is always 1 type of weapon or build then balance needs to be seriously looked at again.
I feel like every match is now battle masters with LPL vomit, or grass hoppers with LPL vomit,

ebolachan, on 15 January 2017 - 10:38 PM, said:

is erLL is getting out of hand.

SmokeGuar, on 16 January 2017 - 04:46 AM, said:

Clearly IS LR and LPL need ghost heat check.

Another nerf the I.S. mechs thread

Funny how the clammers on these forums tell us to run the 5 LPL builds and when we do the clammers complain about it.

justcallme A S H, on 15 January 2017 - 10:47 PM, said:

Since the ballistics hammer that came down I've had to stop using UACs because they are absolutely shithouse now.
Also the IS AC heat for ACs as well.... That hurt a couple mechs of mine that I love bringing to the hot maps.
No surprise Laser Vom has now become such a focus.

It's not just the UAC/AC, the heat increase to the SRMs hurt as well.

Since most of the quickplay maps favor range builds, that leaves the I.S. with either LPL/ERL or gauss/PPC builds. P.G.I. has really pigeon holed the I.S. builds. And now the clammers want to close up the pigeon hole.

[Starbomber109]

FallingAce, on 16 January 2017 - 10:16 AM, said:

Funny how the clammers on these forums tell us to run the 5 LPL builds and when we do the clammers complain about it.

It's always different clanners though. This guy is a founder, old guard. While other guys from comp units that have no problem vomiting rainbows are straight up telling other pilots what the strongest playstyle is right now.

[SmokeGuar]

Do you want balance or not? Factions or mechs?

These nerfs to Clans mechs to run more mercs to IS side is turning into same kind of fiasco as it was 12 months ago. PGI and IS fan boys just don't learn.

[LordNothing]

idk, ive been having absurd good luck with ac2s, lb2s and uac2s. when they are used in long range suppression fire they have few equals, not so good close in. seems all my ac2 gets more kills at range than dedicated er lasers or ppcs. erlls in general seem rather crappy and i find i use erppcs more to do away with the 90m minimum than to extend further out.

only time laser vomit is really troublesome is when non-er is larges, mediums, and clan smalls when stacked to insane alpha levels and used at short to moderate range.

Edited by LordNothing, 16 January 2017 - 04:59 PM.

[Wecx]

Willard Phule, on 16 January 2017 - 02:03 AM, said:

They did remove it. It's called the "ERPPC." Neither the Clan or IS ERPPC has a minimum range.

As for the regular PPC having a minimum range....it's supposed to. Same as LRMs having a minimum arming range.

Actually, being inside minimum range on the TableTop just made you harder to hit, It didn't actually mean the weapons did 0 damage.

Edited by Wecx, 16 January 2017 - 07:09 PM.

[Deathlike]

I hate to tell you that ERLL vomit of either side really sucks. The only time the IS uses it is if there is quirks involved, particularly of the duration variety.

Laservomit in generally is not a thing compared to PPC-Gauss or general dakka.

I dunno what to tell you other than change your approach and improve your builds.

[Crockdaddy]

Ripnfly, on 15 January 2017 - 10:07 PM, said:

I am a founder and a clan player these is my feelings of the game experience after coming back and playing for a month...

For FP if the best build for IS mechs' is always 1 type of weapon or build then balance needs to be seriously looked at again.

I feel like every match is now battle masters with LPL vomit, or grass hoppers with LPL vomit, it makes playing lighter mechs (under 55 tons) UN-enjoyable eating a 50+ alpha or stronger is fine, if different weapons systems are used - Missiles, AC, and Lasers but when most skilled pilots can perform a vomit 4 times in a row (Cool Shots) within 20 seconds it really takes away from the fun of what Mech Warrior is supposed to be and shortens fights especially 2 on 2 or 3 on 3 engages.


I don't understand why all lasers cant be linked to the heat scale it leads to "playing" with the system.
PPC's went through it, Gauss (pre-Charge up triple gauss builds) AC (release of Dire wolf - crabs Kodiak)

4 PPCS is basically 100 heat this prevents the Cheese,
You cant charge more then 2 gauss - prevents Cheese.
NEW!, You cant fire more then 2 large lasers of any type without ppc style heat penalties
NEW!, You cant fire more then 1 Large and 3 small lasers of anytype without ppc style heat penalties.
I think the 6 small medium link has been reasonable
NEW! ALPHA penalty for every weapon fired 1 heat is added, 1 weapon normal 2 weapons 1 additional heat, 3 - 2 heat, 4- 4 heat 5 - 12 heat 6 - 16 heat. 7 - 8 -9 16 heat is the cap this is with any weapons MGs excluded.


I see the same broken system again and again, single weapon platform builds are part of the game but there is hardly any controlled fire, the whole game has become ALPHA STRIKE with lasers for the majority of my fights.

Hate to break the news to you ... but C-ERPPC is King. Laser vomit works because very few groups run brawl builds which would largely annihilate laser vomit builds. AC and UAC were nerfed because of the KDK-3 ... and a few other mechs. AC took a nerf has PPC + AC were heavily in use.

It won't matter how you nerf it ... competent players will migrate to the most effective weapons system for a given situation.