42 replies to this topic

[BCAW]

Before I say anything, I'd like to bring up this new video by Kanajashi. Despite his statement in this video, which I vehemently disagree with, I'll admit he's still my favorite MWO-related content creator on YouTube; his tutorials have been very helpful to me. Sir Kanajashi, if you are reading this, please understand that this is not personal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCt2yypZ5e0&t=10s

Now, as to why I disagree with this video:

1. I do not believe that "cash-whales" should be catered to. While I do recognized the fact that financial contributions are what keeps the game running, I am opposed to the idea that an advantage should be purchasable with real cash in a game that is trying to sell it self as some kind of "competitive e-sports". If, as Kanajashi stated, the KDK-3 becomes a champion mech, especially if its in one of the meta loadouts, it would gain a xp bonus. That is a clear advantage over other mechs, including the non-champion KDK-3. Some may point out that Premium Time also improves xp earnings, to which I reply that firstly, Premium Time is not a permanent, one-time purchase, and Premium Time does not make any one mech better than another, since the extra earning is applied regardless of mechs used.

Edited: Thanks to Yeonne for the correction.

2. Making the KDK-3 a champion mech effectively functions as a powercreep. As previously mentioned, the xp bonus that a champion KDK-3 will have is an advantage it has over the non-champion KDK-3. This basically means you've just managed to make a mech that's somehow better than the KDK-3 (dayum, didn't think that was even possible), and made it only available through cash or premium currency. That is a bit too close to P2W. The KDK-3 is already a very strong mech; there's absolutely no need to make it even better.

Please, take these factors into consideration when making and voting for the champion builds. Good day, mechwarriors.

Edit 1: Thanks to Yeonne for the correction.

Edit 2: Just thought about the new skill tree that is on the horizon. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to recall that PGI has stated that whenever you choose to re-spec a mech, all of the xp you have spent on the mech will be removed unless you pay a fee in MC, meaning you would need to re-level the mech again; I also seem to recall PGI stating that all of your XP will be placed into one pool, shared across all the mechs you own. If that's indeed the case, a champion KDK-3 would become even bigger of an issue, since it will be the best XP-farmer; people will just run the champion KDK-3 to earn xp whenever they acquire a new mech, or re-spec one. Which means we can expect to see literal metric tons of bears all the time, not to mention how the matchmaking queue will be skewed.

Edited by BCAW, 15 January 2017 - 11:33 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Champions don't offer C-bill bonuses, they offer XP bonuses.

[BCAW]

Yeonne Greene, on 15 January 2017 - 10:43 PM, said:

Champions don't offer C-bill bonuses, they offer XP bonuses.

Thank you for the correction, I will edit post accordingly. That being said, a XP bonus is still an advantage, one that the KDK-3 doesn't need.

[Kanil]

Does anyone... like... actually drive a champion 'mech for the ~3 extra GXP you get from it? Secondary question, does anyone actually own a champion 'mech? I'm pretty sure I've sold every one PGI ever gave me...

Anyway, seeing as how the module system is going away, GXP's going to be a lot less useful going forward than it currently is. I really don't see this being a problem in the slightest.

[Y E O N N E]

Kanil, on 15 January 2017 - 11:17 PM, said:

Does anyone... like... actually drive a champion 'mech for the ~3 extra GXP you get from it? Secondary question, does anyone actually own a champion 'mech? I'm pretty sure I've sold every one PGI ever gave me...

I actually went out and bought the Champion Locust 1E because I spend a lot of time in Locusts. Sold my regular LCT-1E a long time ago.

I accidentally sold my CN9-A(C) that PGI awarded. Deliberately sold a TDR-9S(C) award. Still have my VTR-9S(C) award. Also have various other (C) 'Mechs that came in Mastery bundles (including a TDR-9S(C)).

[RestosIII]

I don't see how boosted XP gain is power creep. What, you gonna go back and retroactively call the invasion variants power creep compared to their base models because they give bonus C-Bills? It's not like they actually do anything in a battle different from the base versions.

[BCAW]

RestosIII, on 15 January 2017 - 11:27 PM, said:

I don't see how boosted XP gain is power creep. What, you gonna go back and retroactively call the invasion variants power creep compared to their base models because they give bonus C-Bills? It's not like they actually do anything in a battle different from the base versions.

Yes, boosted XP does not give you an advantage in-battle. But it is most definitely an advantage in-game. It doesn't make you play better, but it gives better rewards. An advantage makes something better. A KDK-3 does not need to be better.

Regarding the invasion mechs: no, they are not powercreeps as far as their performance goes. However, I'd say that they're superior in the sense that it is more rewarding to pilot an invasion mech than a non-invasion mech due to the bonus c-bill.

[627]

That XP boost gives you no advantage ingame. Right now, mechs need around 50k XP to mastery. Every XP earned after that gives you nothing, it is a waste.

With the new system it seems that you are limited in skill points so let's say the kodiak 3 can earn 50 skill points, each point ist 1.000 XP (I made these numbers up). With the Champion version, you'll get to your 50 skill points maybe 5 matches earlier but after that every earned XP is useless.

The only thing a champion mech is "useful" for is earning more GXP. But we don't know how GXP will be used with the new tree and if it is important at all anymore.

So I fail to see how a champion (or hero) mech gets you an ingame advantage. Your mechs can't get stronger or anything than the base version.

[RestosIII]

BCAW, on 15 January 2017 - 11:36 PM, said:

Yes, boosted XP does not give you an advantage in-battle. But it is most definitely an advantage in-game. It doesn't make you play better, but it gives better rewards. An advantage makes something better. A KDK-3 does not need to be better.

Regarding the invasion mechs: no, they are not powercreeps as far as their performance goes. However, I'd say that they're superior in the sense that it is more rewarding to pilot an invasion mech than a non-invasion mech due to the bonus c-bill.

That's not power creep though, or an "unfair advantage". It's just "pay to grind less". Which, if you hadn't noticed, is one of the largest money makers for F2P titles out there, a d generally viewed as one of the least ****** options a company can go with. (Unless the grind without it becomes insane, but this game is nowhere near that point)

[The Unstoppable Puggernaut]

I think this whole idea is to allow newbies to pick up a KDK3 right?

If so, I hope it doesn't give them a inflated sense of ability. Building confidence is one thing, giving them an easy killer mech is another.

I suppose this has to entice them to buy the range too, if they see a great performing KDK3 they'll hopefully buy the whole set.

[NeoCodex]

BCAW, on 15 January 2017 - 10:39 PM, said:

Making the KDK-3 a champion mech effectively functions as a powercreep. As previously mentioned, the xp bonus that a champion KDK-3 will have is an advantage it has over the non-champion KDK-3. This basically means you've just managed to make a mech that's somehow better than the KDK-3 (dayum, didn't think that was even possible), and made it only available through cash or premium currency. That is a bit too close to P2W. The KDK-3 is already a very strong mech; there's absolutely no need to make it even better.

Don't worry, PGI will eventually nerf the KDK-3 into the ground once they sell enough champion versions. PGI economics 101. Remeber the winning mech championship sale a few years ago and nerfing them soon after into useless? I still remember buying Dragon Slayer on that sale and it being useful for not more than the next two patches. Thanks PGI.

To clarify, your worry is well placed regarding the new player situation with this but it won't matter as much in the end, as the mech will be nerfed again sometime soon after eventually. PGI are just great at playing stupid and taking delayed response to their advantage.

Edited by NeoCodex, 16 January 2017 - 12:00 AM.

[Amsro]

BCAW, on 15 January 2017 - 11:36 PM, said:

Yes, boosted XP does not give you an advantage in-battle. But it is most definitely an advantage in-game. It doesn't make you play better, but it gives better rewards. An advantage makes something better. A KDK-3 does not need to be better.

Regarding the invasion mechs: no, they are not powercreeps as far as their performance goes. However, I'd say that they're superior in the sense that it is more rewarding to pilot an invasion mech than a non-invasion mech due to the bonus c-bill.

What? XP boost on a single variant has NO benefit to the owner other then getting XP quicker. And getting XP quicker really doesn't change anything. I'm not seeing the problem here.

[NeoCodex]

Amsro, on 16 January 2017 - 12:01 AM, said:

What? XP boost on a single variant has NO benefit to the owner other then getting XP quicker. And getting XP quicker really doesn't change anything. I'm not seeing the problem here.

The point is in the new skill system, if it will be a very long grind to min max a mech tree (altough Russ reassured it won't be and numbers in the presentation were placeholders), having an xp boosted version for a new player is a pretty good perk, which might give it a look of a "must buy" thing, it's just a bit annoying and not the most moral thing.

[El Bandito]

Make KDK-3 as champion (trial) mech. Give it 4xCLBX10s, to account of newbies' inability to hit a section reliably.

[Tristan Winter]

They should totally do it. If the KDK-3 is too powerful, the only way to make PGI react is to put 4-8 of them in every match, until the community is so sick to death with the KDK-3 that Twitter explodes. That seems to be the most reliable way of getting PGI to fix these things.

Right now, I'm betting they're aware of a potential problem, but they're "monitoring the situation".

[SmokeGuar]

Peeps still crying about Big Bad Bear? Count Kodiaks you see during days playing, doubt you need one hands fingers.

String of nerfs has driver herd down and low tonnage on FW makes bringing any 100 ton assault a high risk. Are we playing the same game?

[El Bandito]

SmokeGuar, on 16 January 2017 - 04:18 AM, said:

Peeps still crying about Big Bad Bear? Count Kodiaks you see during days playing, doubt you need one hands fingers.

String of nerfs has driver herd down and low tonnage on FW makes bringing any 100 ton assault a high risk. Are we playing the same game?

Except no one mentioned CW.

[Bombast]

Kanil, on 15 January 2017 - 11:17 PM, said:

Does anyone... like... actually drive a champion 'mech for the ~3 extra GXP you get from it? Secondary question, does anyone actually own a champion 'mech? I'm pretty sure I've sold every one PGI ever gave me...

I have two that I goofed and got (Returning player burning 4 year old MC on Mastery Packs/Champions before checking what they were) - the CPLT-A1 (C) and the JM6-A (C). Then CPLT-A1 (C) has 43,000 XP on is (After Mastery) and the JM6-A (C) has 29,500 XP (After mastery). Actually been playing the JM6-A recently - Figured if I can get enough XP on it to master it, the refund I get from what I spent on it already can be used elsewhere, and it's missile hardpoints (Yes, I am being gross, I am sorry) allow for some low intensity matches (LRM30A, SRM8A is a lot less intense than Dual LB 10-X, SRM12A).

I generally like both of those mechs, though. If I hadn't gotten the Champions, I'd almost certainly have them anyway.

As for making the KDK-3 a Champion...who cares? 95% of the matches played on champions are actually on the trial mechs. Let the new kids know what their up against.

SmokeGuar, on 16 January 2017 - 04:18 AM, said:

Peeps still crying about Big Bad Bear? Count Kodiaks you see during days playing, doubt you need one hands fingers.

I usually need more then one hand after two matches.

And really, that current state of affairs is because the last mech release was the Marauder IIC. I imagine Kodiaks will be surging again soon.

[Lily from animove]

if they want cahs, make something like 100$ goldmech camo for every chassis, you will see gold bears, gold atlas at a lot of emchs for some spicy price to make soem good profit.

thats better to cash from whales without impacting the game too much.

Edited by Lily from animove, 16 January 2017 - 05:13 AM.

[Bombast]

Lily from animove, on 16 January 2017 - 05:13 AM, said:

if they want cahs, make something like 100$ goldmech camo for every chassis, you will see gold bears, gold atlas at a lot of emchs for some spicy price to make soem good profit.

thats better to cash from whales without impacting the game too much.

Do people still TK gold mechs at the beginning of the match? I heard that was a thing, but I've never seen a gold mech so I'm not sure if it still is.