172 replies to this topic

[Jingseng]

Except jump snipers are usually staying well back and hidden... meaning they are not sharing armor with the rest of their team, and their dps is often much more spread out (aka slow).

so maybe focus on the rest of the team =p

[NighthawK1337]

Yeonne Greene, on 16 January 2017 - 10:08 PM, said:

I'm not sure where I ever asked for a JJ nerf. I'm not sure where I ever mentioned making any change at all, my original post wasn't even taking a position. I was just looking at the 'Mechs I play and analyzing how I play them.

That's the general direction that discussions about poptarting generally goes.

Yeonne Greene, on 16 January 2017 - 09:52 PM, said:

I define "come back" when it's the dominant play-style in an organized, high-level game. Which it is.

Isn't it the goal of OP? since poptarting are making a "comeback" to add more unnecessary mechanics to poptarting to make it even more inaccessible?

I assumed that you agreed with him on that matter. If not, I apologize for misrepresenting your case.

Making sweeping changes to JJs again will just reduce variety again for mechs and bring us a little bit closer to World of Tanks.

To make it clear on the subject matter, I think poptart is good as it is. So far I think the biggest factor for balance is weight and tech disparity between IS and Clans. We should focus in IS XLs first than going after the poptarters. Maybe we'd see an actually new tactic instead of a rehash of the old Laser Vomit, Poptart, Nascar, PPFLD.



How about for something completely different?
Let all mechs have JJs. Bam, every mech is a poptarter. If everybody is poptarting, only people who can't poptart will complain how OP it is. Basically just like torso twisting. I don't see people complaining about those since every mech can do it. Flying 2 Gauss 2 PPC KDK-3s be damned.

Edited by NighthawK1337, 16 January 2017 - 10:58 PM.

[Vxheous]

Jingseng, on 16 January 2017 - 10:23 PM, said:

Except jump snipers are usually staying well back and hidden... meaning they are not sharing armor with the rest of their team, and their dps is often much more spread out (aka slow).

so maybe focus on the rest of the team =p

They share armor, in the way that by popping up and shooting you, they draw fire (ineffective or not) back towards them, which takes your focus away from main force. You also have to dedicate time and effort to keep track of the jump snipers, or they will tear you apart. This is what makes multiple jump-snipers so effective, besides the actual jump-snipe mechanic of negating return fire. It is the distraction that it causes that makes opponents start second-guessing movements, which makes opponents less effective.

[PhoenixFire55]

I just wish that for a week PGI rolls the client back to 2013 version so that all the dumb whiners actually play against proper poptarts. What we have now doesn't even begin to compare.

[Tristan Winter]

Keep this under your hat, OP.



"Word on the street is: quad UAC10 Kodiaks are going to be huge. Huuge, I tells ya!"

[l33tworks]

I think its at a good place right now. Its viable but not OP. Having the gamestyle open is a good thing.

Lastly we never would have had thee pop-tart problem if gravity was more realistic.

Edited by l33tworks, 25 January 2017 - 03:31 AM.

[jss78]

I do pop-tarting quite a lot in IS mediums. People talk of jump jet weight, but it's pretty much a non-issue for mediums, with just a few 0.5 ton jets really making you fly. I never really set up a 'mech with solely pop-tarting in mind, but it's a damn nice ability to have situationally, be it for twin-PPC or a bunch of SRM's.

IMO it's quite silly how easy it's to snipe from mid-air, but then ez-mode aiming is an overarching problem in this game, and not just in pop-tarting.

[adamts01]

Cone Of Fire!!!! It solves so many problems, and every single successful modern shooter uses it. I just can't fathom why people are so against it. If you're in the air, your COF enlarges. More if the jets are activated. If you shoot all of your weapons at once, your COF enlarges, boating and huge alphas solved. It could have let lights stay small and fast and kept them from dishing out monster alphas while doing mech gymnastics. It really would solve so much.

[Bud Crue]

Tlords, on 16 January 2017 - 08:03 PM, said:

Jump sniping is making a comeback. Summoners, Hunchback 2Cs, and Night Gyrs are amazing jump sniping mechs. With the ability to pack 2 ERPPCs, 2 ERPPCs with Gauss, or 2 Gauss with an ERPPC, while jumping and firing, I am wondering what the point of bringing other long range mechs are.

Yeonne Greene, on 16 January 2017 - 08:32 PM, said:

I pop-tart with:

SHC (2x ERPPC)
MAD-5M (2xPPC + 2xAC/5)
HBK-IICA (2x ERPPC)
BJ-3 (1xPPC + 1x ERPPC)
MAD-5D (brawl-tart)
MLX-B (brawl-tart)
MLX-A (ER PPC)

AKA, I do it a lot.

My oh my o my, with all this talk of jump sniping and pop tarting, I reckon it'd be a fine time to give the poor old Thunderbolt 9S some jump jets. Something, something, game balance, and all that....ya know those clanners with their PPC summoner...mhmm...sure would be nice if the IS had something that could compete, yes sire. Guess not though. Poor ole IS folks got nothing that can compete with that; poor fools. Shucks, I s'pose maybe a Quickdraw or a Grasshopper could get some PPC quirks? Might be a fellah could find a use for that too. But I guess we just let the clanners have all the fun. Oh well, guess PGI knows best.

-walks away whistling innocently-

[Pjwned]

Quote

jump sniping is more popular again

Quote

convergence still isn't properly addressed

HHHMMMMMMMMMM........

rly makes u think

adamts01, on 17 January 2017 - 04:46 AM, said:

Cone Of Fire!!!! It solves so many problems, and every single successful modern shooter uses it. I just can't fathom why people are so against it. If you're in the air, your COF enlarges. More if the jets are activated. If you shoot all of your weapons at once, your COF enlarges, boating and huge alphas solved. It could have let lights stay small and fast and kept them from dishing out monster alphas while doing mech gymnastics. It really would solve so much.

Puke.

I like that the intent is to address convergence, but the idea is bad because cone of fire is bad.

[C E Dwyer]

Why is this thread here at all Snazzy Dragon started one up two days ago, on exactly the same subject it's still on the front page

[Bud Crue]

Pjwned, on 17 January 2017 - 05:19 AM, said:

Puke

Puke Indeed.

Despite my mockery and feeble attempts at using these threads for selfish purposes (see above), can we be serious for a moment:

This is the second thread in two days specific to "poptarting" and there have been other that have touched on the "resurgence of jump sniping" and various mechanisms such as cone of fire, limiting weapons that can be fired while jumping, extended cool down times following jumping, etc. that might be employed to reduce its effectiveness.

Lets repeat that: some people are actually proposing mechanisms to further limit what is charitably being called "poptarting"
...
If I may?

-ahem-

SHUT THE F. . K UP.

I'm sorry but this game is so restrictive and being made so...well...un-fun, that I can barely stand it. From the inevitable "lets nerf this mech or that; this weapon or that; this tech or that", to CW is only for the best players who can consistently take dots, to group queue being no longer for groups. And now we want to hamper a mechanism of how we actually move the mechs and use the weapons on those mechs cuz jumping...JUMPING!!...is OP? Again: just shut up.

I can barely get half my "jumping mechs" on to a ledge in Mining Collective and you people think jump sniping is a problem? What flucking game do you play? Well shi7, maybe your real problem is just sniping period? Heck, may as well nerf all weapons down to 100 meters cuz we can't have people shooting from distance. Geezus. Just stop.

Instead of nerfing ANYTHING, make jumping MORE useful not LESS! Make it so a mech having jump jets actually has a purpose for christsake. I mean come on people...they've taken away so much of the fun and "cool factor" of pretending to be stomping around in these virtual machines of destruction, do we really want to be encouraging them to take more? I think not.

Rant over. Sorry.

[Pjwned]

Bud Crue, on 17 January 2017 - 05:41 AM, said:

Puke Indeed.

Despite my mockery and feeble attempts at using these threads for selfish purposes (see above), can we be serious for a moment:

This is the second thread in two days specific to "poptarting" and there have been other that have touched on the "resurgence of jump sniping" and various mechanisms such as cone of fire, limiting weapons that can be fired while jumping, extended cool down times following jumping, etc. that might be employed to reduce its effectiveness.

Lets repeat that: some people are actually proposing mechanisms to further limit what is charitably being called "poptarting"
...
If I may?

-ahem-

SHUT THE F. . K UP.

I'm sorry but this game is so restrictive and being made so...well...un-fun, that I can barely stand it. From the inevitable "lets nerf this mech or that; this weapon or that; this tech or that", to CW is only for the best players who can consistently take dots, to group queue being no longer for groups. And now we want to hamper a mechanism of how we actually move the mechs and use the weapons on those mechs cuz jumping...JUMPING!!...is OP? Again: just shut up.

I can barely get half my "jumping mechs" on to a ledge in Mining Collective and you people think jump sniping is a problem? What flucking game do you play? Well shi7, maybe your real problem is just sniping period? Heck, may as well nerf all weapons down to 100 meters cuz we can't have people shooting from distance. Geezus. Just stop.

Instead of nerfing ANYTHING, make jumping MORE useful not LESS! Make it so a mech having jump jets actually has a purpose for christsake. I mean come on people...they've taken away so much of the fun and "cool factor" of pretending to be stomping around in these virtual machines of destruction, do we really want to be encouraging them to take more? I think not.

Rant over. Sorry.

Which is exactly why I want to see convergence addressed instead of just going down the idiot route and nerfing jumpjets again.

Or if that's somehow not enough, then in-game gravity could also be changed so that pop tarts have more hang time in the air.

[Sjorpha]

[Bud Crue]

Sjorpha, on 17 January 2017 - 05:53 AM, said:

Nerf owls.

grrr

[MeiSooHaityu]

The balancing factor seems to be that only mediums and lights are capable of having the lift necessary to jump snipe. It is rare to see a heavy that is any good at it (except the Summoner), and assaults...forget it.

So overall the firepower that can be delivered by poptarting is somewhat limited(at least compared to what used to be able to jump a long...long time ago). Overall, I don't have too much of a problem with where it is now.

[Snazzy Dragon]

MeiSooHaityu, on 17 January 2017 - 06:56 AM, said:

The balancing factor seems to be that only mediums and lights are capable of having the lift necessary to jump snipe. It is rare to see a heavy that is any good at it (except the Summoner), and assaults...forget it.

So overall the firepower that can be delivered by poptarting is somewhat limited(at least compared to what used to be able to jump a long...long time ago). Overall, I don't have too much of a problem with where it is now.

Night gyr and timber wolf are the best pug play poptarts but the summoner is top tier at it.

The problem with poptarting right now is that it's almost exclusively clan mechs capable of doing it well and the medium and light poptarts are outclassed by heavy poptarts.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Snazzy Dragon, on 17 January 2017 - 07:02 AM, said:

Night gyr and timber wolf are the best pug play poptarts but the summoner is top tier at it.

The problem with poptarting right now is that it's almost exclusively clan mechs capable of doing it well and the medium and light poptarts are outclassed by heavy poptarts.

I don't have much experience with the Night Gyr, but I don't see Timber Wolf doing much poptarting. I suppose it can, but really I can't see it doing it well, or well enough to be a real threat. The Summoner doesn't seem to have much going for it, so I think poptarting is sort of it's consolation prize by PGI.

As for IS, yeah I'll agree that heavies don't really fair well. The only IS mechs I'll poptart with are the Vindicator 1AA and the Phoenix Hawk 1B, and I know the Clans have equivalents (like the Shadow Hawk).

Still, it doesn't strike me as a huge problem. I don't ever play and say...man these poptarts are really ruining the game (like I did a few years ago). Even heavies are still mostly slow to gain elevation. It feels like they are easier to spot and you can often trade shots regardless. The Mediums at least are fast at poptarting. I'd prefer poptarting with a medium over a heavy myself.

So...ehh. It doesn't seem like a big problem.

[PJohann]

Jumping is ok. Sniping at 800meters while jumping is not.
Bandaid solution: make reticle move violently ALL the time while mech is not on the ground. Also buff jumpjets at least to their former glory.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

MeiSooHaityu, on 17 January 2017 - 07:15 AM, said:

As for IS, yeah I'll agree that heavies don't really fair well. The only IS mechs I'll poptart with are the Vindicator 1AA and the Phoenix Hawk 1B

You mentioned both IS 45 tonners that are not the best poptart in that tonnage XD. With the BJ-3, there is still no reason for the Vindi.