32 replies to this topic

[Mchawkeye]

i basically liked most of VYCanis's ideas. but this:

VYCanis, on 13 December 2011 - 02:58 PM, said:

If a jenner makes the mistake of getting within arms reach of an atlas, that jenner should run the risk of getting pimpslapped right into (possibly through) a building.

The word 'pimpslapped' made me think of an atlas in a large furry jacket with leopard print trousers and a large wide brimmed purple hat. plenty of bling. Possibly even hydraulics in his legs to make him bounce....

The huggybear of mechs. mechybear? huggymech?

[VYCanis]

you know you want to drive it

just scale this up to mech size

[Blastcaps]

think if you want duels, there should be ingame "simulator pods" connected game wide where people can go do 1v1 2v2 etc outside of intended/planned matchs.

as for melee weapons far as i'm aware the only mech within the battletech universe with a melee weapon is the hatchetman

Edited by Blastcaps, 15 December 2011 - 01:39 AM.

[Dihm]

Blastcaps, on 15 December 2011 - 01:34 AM, said:

think if you want duels, there should be ingame "simulator pods" connected game wide where people can go do 1v1 2v2 etc outside of intended/planned matchs.

as for melee weapons far as i'm aware the only mech within the battletech universe with a melee weapon is the hatchetman

Hatchetman, the Axman, the Buccaneer, the Berserker, a variant of the Black Knight (BL-9-KNT, a Clanbuster), Nightsky, Scarabus... that's all I got off the top of my head. Hatchet only came about in 3022. For stuff before 3049, you're looking at Hatchetman, Axman. The BL-9 comes just before Tukayyid in 3052. Very small percentage.

Note: I refused to look up mechs that came out later with "swords" instead of hatchets. The Black Knight was the exception, because it isn't a "sword", it's just a huge heavy hunk of metal that LOOKS sorta like a broadsword instead of a hatchet.

[Gorith]

When I loaded this i thought he meant dual and was referring to LAMs... Why would we need a toggle to melee? simply make a melee attack button and have it have a cool down like any other weapon system

[VYCanis]

having a single melee button could work, but the idea of a toggle has merit as it could solve the following problems.

1. animation transition.
Going from shooty to punchy/kicky and back again can very easily look awkward. Having a toggle can solve this by making mechs in melee mode move a bit differently. Not only could it make for better animations, but it would telegraph to other players, hey that guy is gonna melee someone (possibly me)

2. can act like a sort of torso twist lock. to prevent you from twisting too far off center. This prevents people from circle of deathing melee attacks, and also would let the game take control of your twist for the purposes of giving weight to the melee animation. (i.e. your torso auto twisting to the right as you pull back the right arm for a punch)

3. game balance. if you want to melee someone you aren't gonna be as flexible and you aren't gonna be shooting. So you can't just easily belt out alphas in between punches, not unless you are actually toggling in and out of that mode, which could be made to take a few moments to prevent abuse.

4. give you a little more control. You can do a lot with 1 melee button, bur you can do more if you switch over your firegroups to handle more specific actions.

[pcunite]

Personally ... this isn't Street Fighter or Mortal Combat ... if it was I would not be interested. Why go to the trouble of building a 30 foot structure to then only kick with it?

The notion of Melee therefore is really about defining what an act of desperation is. What would make a person become so desperate as to destroy their very expensive mech that way?

Death ... if you really fear dying, if what you do in a mech really matters, if you really want to come home again ... then sure ... crash into another mech and maybe live to see another day ... that is the only place I can see this sort of outrages behavior making any sense. But jumps, kicks, and other 100 ton nonsense are better left for the comics/cartoons.

[Gorith]

pcunite, on 16 December 2011 - 06:23 PM, said:

Personally ... this isn't Street Fighter or Mortal Combat ... if it was I would not be interested. Why go to the trouble of building a 30 foot structure to then only kick with it?

The notion of Melee therefore is really about defining what an act of desperation is. What would make a person become so desperate as to destroy their very expensive mech that way?

Death ... if you really fear dying, if what you do in a mech really matters, if you really want to come home again ... then sure ... crash into another mech and maybe live to see another day ... that is the only place I can see this sort of outrages behavior making any sense. But jumps, kicks, and other 100 ton nonsense are better left for the comics/cartoons.

Well some mechs have melee weapons as part of what they do (which is why not being able to fire while meleeing is also not a good idea an axeman not being able to fire its AC20 and use its hatchet at the same time would make it less usefull in its intended role than its supposed to be)...

what i want to know is why everyone thinks just because a mech can melee it will automatically look all animeish or comicy?

[Dihm]

Gorith, on 16 December 2011 - 06:58 PM, said:

what i want to know is why everyone thinks just because a mech can melee it will automatically look all animeish or comicy?

I don't get that part either.

[Grithis]

While they did say that melee combat isn't being focused on at the moment, the devs never said it would not ever be part of the game. I'm desperately hoping they figure out a system for melee combat, at least in a basic form! If I'm piloting an Archer, I want to have an option for when that Hunchback rounds a corner inside my minimum range. Or even just considering when an ammo dependant mech runs low on/ out of ammo.

Despite what other incarnations of MW have done, I don't believe an Atlas pilot should just have to sit there and watch as mechs run by him, plinking away as his weapons cycle. These things are humanoid for a reason! Throw a leg or an arm out and cause some damage!

Some people have mentioned that meleeing makes no sense because it would damage your mech, as well. This isn't an issue, as I see it. I can't think of any house military/ merc unit that would mind repairing the relatively mild damage caused by throwing melee attacks, as long as the objective is completed.

I'd even settle for melee not causing any real damage, just knocking back an enemy or messing up thier targeting. Some tactical thought besides point and shoot. Melee combat is in almost every BT book. Is at least mentioned in 90% of the sourcebooks. It's a part of the universe and just makes sense. It deserves more than to just be written off, thoughtlessly!

All this being said, I'm not a big fan of the Hatchetman, Axeman, or the others. No matter how good an option melee could ever be, the tonnage devoted to a melee weapon could be better served by another weapon system. I am guilty, however, of having a heavy trigger finger. I don't want to be forced into a design that focuses on lasers and PPCs if it doesn't feel right to me. When my cannons and missiles run dry, I want another option to fall back on. Acting as a distraction/ target dummy for the enemy doesn't sound like much fun.

Edited by Grithis, 17 December 2011 - 08:13 AM.

[pcunite]

Grithis, on 17 December 2011 - 07:54 AM, said:

I am guilty, however, of having a heavy trigger finger. I don't want to be forced into a design that focuses on lasers and PPCs if it doesn't feel right to me. When my cannons and missiles run dry, I want another option to fall back on. Acting as a distraction/ target dummy for the enemy doesn't sound like much fun.

That is an issue that could use some addressing ... the number of rounds is way to minimal which is why I prefer the energy weapons ... there could be another support vehicle that simply serves to resupply mechs perhaps.

[Nik Van Rhijn]

A number of us have suggested ammo supply trucks (if not MFB's). As someone who likes both the Hunchback and Catapult, ammo is always a major consideration.

[Rhinehart]

I'd like to see the canon melee units eventually get some love. I mean mechs like the Axman, Hatchetman and such aren't really worth much without their signature weaponry.

That being said I don't know how soon we might see it. But in Cannon Mech hands were used for a lot more than just combat. Remember with a fusion generator powering the mech you have a virtually inexhaustible power source. Many battlemechs assisted in tasks such as moving/shifting cargo or components for fortifications or other such tasks, especially on low tech worlds. The hands were on many of these mechs for a reason.

Edited by Rhinehart, 20 December 2011 - 08:27 PM.