48 replies to this topic

[B0oN]

1 push of a 2LB20X/4SRM4 Marauder IIC on Alpine ( with help of 2 more pushing whackos ) equalled 768 damage and 3 dead people .

Into the faces of longranged and lurming campers I went, not countercamping and playing into their hands.
The ACTIVE approach, that´s what you want to do . If the enemy is actively putting himself in bad spots, say thanks and make maximum advantage out of it .

In short :

PUUUUUUSHHHHHH MALAKAAAAASSSSSS !!! PUUUUUUUUSSSSHHHHHH !

[Crockdaddy]

chaothulhu, on 22 March 2017 - 10:20 PM, said:

6 x ac2 mal-mx90 can get just shy of 9 shots per second with a macro, almost 18 sustained dps at 900m effective range

that is 1t of ammo in just over 8 seconds

and the supression via cabin shake / flash blinding is fantastic

with that rate of fire, crits also become a factor

I see folks say things like this often. But I only really see this mech work well in lower tier pug play. Everyone else uses cover or superior pokage. Don't get me wrong ... you can get rekt by that beast ... but it's a lot like LRMs, for the most part the mech build doesn't perform up to standards aside from when shooting at mechtards or at the unlucky to get caught in a bad spot with no cover or support.

Still ... I have almost pulled the trigger to buy the Hero Dire wolf several times just to experience what it is like to have 8 AC2's or whatever it is that beast can use.

I am curious now though ... what engine are you using and how much ammo?

[Saint Atlas and the Commando Elf]

Crockdaddy, on 23 March 2017 - 07:02 AM, said:

Still ... I have almost pulled the trigger to buy the Hero Dire wolf several times just to experience what it is like to have 8 AC2's or whatever it is that beast can use.

Do it. Even though the added ballistic hardpoints are even below the existing ones, it is a lot of fun.
Another downside is, that in QP you actually can't really stay that far behind to make good use of the range advantage.

[MischiefSC]

justcallme A S H, on 23 March 2017 - 02:20 AM, said:

No reward for brawling? What?

If you're a good brawler and do a good brawl push you can walk away with 400dmg+, KMDD, Solo Kills/Components etc. Piece of piss. My laser brawl 450m or less, I can usually crank upwards of 800dmg shielding/twisting and rotating out armour and so on.

But then - That is Team / Unit style and level of play. Not just running around doing headless potato pug behaviours from T5 QP.

We often have people break 1k in their first mech on pushes. Noleet had a match that ended with him at 2996 over just 2 mechs and he was out in front.

What people don't recognize is that when the whole team pushes aggressively together you'll often get a 12-0 wipe because the enemy dies or runs before they can focus even one of you down. Where pushes fail is a few people just poke and stop, blocking everyone behind them and stalling the push or leaving 6 or 7 of their teammates up getting focused while they hide.

12 mechs go in, together, guns blazing. That > almost everything else. Hiding and poking and people being scared of getting shot is exactly 100% why the snipe meta works so well. People on your team hiding in the back are the best strategic tool the other team has.

[MischiefSC]

Crockdaddy, on 23 March 2017 - 07:02 AM, said:

I see folks say things like this often. But I only really see this mech work well in lower tier pug play. Everyone else uses cover or superior pokage. Don't get me wrong ... you can get rekt by that beast ... but it's a lot like LRMs, for the most part the mech build doesn't perform up to standards aside from when shooting at mechtards or at the unlucky to get caught in a bad spot with no cover or support.

Still ... I have almost pulled the trigger to buy the Hero Dire wolf several times just to experience what it is like to have 8 AC2's or whatever it is that beast can use.

I am curious now though ... what engine are you using and how much ammo?

It's feast/famine but the feasts are maniacal laughter worthy. You catch some poor ******* in the open and vomit 48 DPS on them. Take 2x coolshots to get a full 300 damage or so over 6-7 seconds. It's like controlling a GAU pod turret. Things just dissolve. I caught a GHR in the open on Tourmaline. He poked, tried to twist away and back up but got caught on invisible wall. His arm dissolves, he is JJing and his leg dissolves, ST dissolves, he's a STD and so he's twisting and trying to get away... it was like a scene from Rambo. I think he was at like 10% when he died.

Glorious.

However it's too hot, not enough ammo. I wouldn't say it's a really viable build but you get a good ambush? Comedy gold. Most dakka in the game.

However it's too hot to sustain without coolshots.

[meteorol]

MischiefSC, on 22 March 2017 - 05:27 PM, said:

There's a twitch stream from a top tier comp player who was dropping with his team in FW. We brawled them out in a pretty snipe friendly map. They lost to KCom and he was raging over it - in the process he said "The only thing they know how to do is hit 'w'!"

Link?

[MischiefSC]

meteorol, on 23 March 2017 - 11:40 AM, said:

Link?

No name and shame on forums. Also, intent isn't to belittle any comp teams - nothing but respect for them, exceptional players. Just a different environment.

[Crockdaddy]

MischiefSC, on 23 March 2017 - 12:19 PM, said:

No name and shame on forums. Also, intent isn't to belittle any comp teams - nothing but respect for them, exceptional players. Just a different environment.

People often say angry crap when they lose. It is what it is. I've heard the complaint before that KCOM only can hit the "w" key ... and I laugh every time I hear it. Like if its just that EZ or something.

[SCHLIMMER BESTIMMER XXX]

MovinTarget, on 22 March 2017 - 04:04 PM, said:

Also, you really need to know the maps so that regardless of where you drop, you know where to set up...

Maybe you'll beat them, maybe you won't... just try to mitigate their range advantage...

Just because their range may seem great, normally they aren't exactly at optimal range...

Also... 6x AC2 mauler mx90's with range module has 900m optimal range. Once elited (fast fire), your cooldown is near .5 secs so even though your alpha is only 12, you are doing nearly 24 dps at high range and low heat...

Its good for cover fire and making mechs pay when they get out in the open... you can get a good 11-12 tons of ammo...

6xac2 mauler kinda sucks.I also have him and i even had some good matches in it.kept him mostly because 6xac2 is good fun,
but tbh its too much of a gamble because it also can suck epic.Maybie its just me but i never really can pinpoint the damage
long enough to be as effective as i shoud be in this mech, in theory.Also you have to face your enemy the whole time, or at least its very tempting when you in chainfire mode.

[MischiefSC]

Crockdaddy, on 23 March 2017 - 01:54 PM, said:

People often say angry crap when they lose. It is what it is. I've heard the complaint before that KCOM only can hit the "w" key ... and I laugh every time I hear it. Like if its just that EZ or something.

Besides, it's patently false.

You've got to hit the alphastrike button down too.

[Revis Volek]

Crockdaddy, on 22 March 2017 - 08:51 PM, said:

My KDK-3 and / Insert every Night Gyr disagree on your assessment concerning Gauss cannons. Agreed the range is no longer extreme but that is what the ERPPCs are for.

yea, it not EXTRA RANGE (ER) its just normal long range.


Gauss is fine and hits hard as hell at range still...

[Arkaiko]

MovinTarget, on 22 March 2017 - 04:50 PM, said:

While they may not always have the best hardpoints, many IS mechs can can actually outrange cERPPC thanks to quirks on range and velocity. Yes, the lack of spash damage makes it a bit less potent, but so often people just don't to even try to be competetive if it forces them out of their comfort zone.

that just with ERPPC, and ERPPC boats are prety rare and inefective, cERPPC outrange ERLL and just need to get a clean shot, not the sustained damage of the laser

[Crockdaddy]

MischiefSC, on 23 March 2017 - 02:21 PM, said:

Besides, it's patently false.

You've got to hit the alphastrike button down too.

What is this "alphastrike" ... it sounds like some pug nightmare lostech you speak of.

[ccrider]

Crockdaddy, on 24 March 2017 - 05:41 AM, said:

What is this "alphastrike" ... it sounds like some pug nightmare lostech you speak of.

alpha strike is when you shoot your mgs, lurms, ppc, med laser and ac2 at all the targets you see at 1000 meters. Alpha is just shorthand for "1 of every weapon, all on the same fire button." True masters know that those "range" numbers are just suggestions anyway.

[MovinTarget]

I did a little testing today and here is what I found for those of you touting clan range:

***BEFORE YOU READ FURTHER, ACCEPT THAT NO MATTER WHAT I SAY, I CAN'T MAKE YOU PLAY BETTER OR YOUR OPPONENTS PLAY WORSE***

Unquirked Clan ER PPC range + range module = Unquirked IS ER PPC Range + Range module (duh)

But multiple IS mechs have +5/+10% energy range quirks, so hardpoints aside, they can out-range save vs the few clan mechs that have some sort of energy range quirk.

So the Targeting computer gives clan ER PPC velocity, the max being +35% @7 tons. Several IS Heavies (Tbolts, Warhammers, Marauders variants are noteworthy) all have 30% (some 35%?) velocity quirks... without giving up 7 tons/slots.

There are some light and medium IS mechs that have PPC quirks that could be used as well... Consider in trading, the hardest part of fighting PPFLD poptarts is hitting them while airborne (since that may be the only time you see them). Smaller mechs would be that much harder to hit, so perhaps on your second wave (once you've confirmed they are all ERPPC/Gauss, you might break out the Panther or a Phoenix Hawk with ECM and 2 ER PPC... (Devlin, I hate you for making me like the prancing pixies)... When I'm feeling like being just f'ning annoying, I'll bust out the ERPPC Pirates Bane on large, open maps, I won't claim tons of kills with it, but the annoyance an disruption vs less disciplined teams is rather enjoyable.

I'm not saying all this because I think a group of pugs can grab these mechs an roflstomp a premade... No, the OP's original question is somewhat flawed in that a 12 man premade would have an inherent advantage in most scenarios they choose to take seriously, regardless of their loadout.

My point is to simply point out that:
1) IS can inherently match ER PPC range of most clan mechs, even without range quirks
2) Some IS mechs can match, even exceed the PPC velocity of clans, unless the clanners invest in a hefty targeting computer.


All that said, others have made a good point that closing the gap may be the best solution, map/situation dependent as most PPFLD builds have great "burst" damage, but are challenged at DPS where they can't pull back and cool off.

All this is hypothetical, really... Sometimes the biggest factors are everything but the clan/IS tech... Not everyone can run gauss/PPC effectively nor has the interest in learning to do so.

Edited by MovinTarget, 24 March 2017 - 08:53 AM.

[Marquis De Lafayette]

MovinTarget, on 24 March 2017 - 08:52 AM, said:

All that said, others have made a good point that closing the gap may be the best solution, map/situation dependent as most PPFLD builds have great "burst" damage, but are challenged at DPS where they can't pull back and cool off.

Spot on....One thing that makes this game fun is that for every strategy there is a "counter". I have seen organized teams overcommit to a certain play style and pay the price, as they make themselves vunerable to those counters.

For example I was in a skirmish match with 4 of us and PUGs vs an IS loyalist 12 man a couple of weeks ago on Alpine....a map that favors range. Wave 1 was 11-12 against us, but it became clear early in wave 2 that nearly their entire team was built to fight at range. Being mostly PUGs we hadn't coordinated anything and had all kinds of builds... so we got close enough to call a brawl push and won that wave 12-2...which determined the match.

Point is tech (range and PPFLD builds) aren't the only thing able to counter similar tech....tactics work as well.

[Vonbach]

Don't play fp?

[Novakaine]

Just charge in and pimpslap em.
Works every time.

[Trenchbird]

Just make a wall of Atlas AS7-S and AS7-D-DC. Problem solved. Kind of.

[TheMightySpin]

MovinTarget, on 24 March 2017 - 08:52 AM, said:

I did a little testing today and here is what I found for those of you touting clan range:

***BEFORE YOU READ FURTHER, ACCEPT THAT NO MATTER WHAT I SAY, I CAN'T MAKE YOU PLAY BETTER OR YOUR OPPONENTS PLAY WORSE***

Unquirked Clan ER PPC range + range module = Unquirked IS ER PPC Range + Range module (duh)

But multiple IS mechs have +5/+10% energy range quirks, so hardpoints aside, they can out-range save vs the few clan mechs that have some sort of energy range quirk.

So the Targeting computer gives clan ER PPC velocity, the max being +35% @7 tons. Several IS Heavies (Tbolts, Warhammers, Marauders variants are noteworthy) all have 30% (some 35%?) velocity quirks... without giving up 7 tons/slots.

There are some light and medium IS mechs that have PPC quirks that could be used as well... Consider in trading, the hardest part of fighting PPFLD poptarts is hitting them while airborne (since that may be the only time you see them). Smaller mechs would be that much harder to hit, so perhaps on your second wave (once you've confirmed they are all ERPPC/Gauss, you might break out the Panther or a Phoenix Hawk with ECM and 2 ER PPC... (Devlin, I hate you for making me like the prancing pixies)... When I'm feeling like being just f'ning annoying, I'll bust out the ERPPC Pirates Bane on large, open maps, I won't claim tons of kills with it, but the annoyance an disruption vs less disciplined teams is rather enjoyable.

I'm not saying all this because I think a group of pugs can grab these mechs an roflstomp a premade... No, the OP's original question is somewhat flawed in that a 12 man premade would have an inherent advantage in most scenarios they choose to take seriously, regardless of their loadout.

My point is to simply point out that:
1) IS can inherently match ER PPC range of most clan mechs, even without range quirks
2) Some IS mechs can match, even exceed the PPC velocity of clans, unless the clanners invest in a hefty targeting computer.


All that said, others have made a good point that closing the gap may be the best solution, map/situation dependent as most PPFLD builds have great "burst" damage, but are challenged at DPS where they can't pull back and cool off.

All this is hypothetical, really... Sometimes the biggest factors are everything but the clan/IS tech... Not everyone can run gauss/PPC effectively nor has the interest in learning to do so.

Shhhh! Haven't you heard? Clans OP! Always and forever! UNLEASH THE NERF-NUKES!