46 replies to this topic

[Sickario]

Dear great and mighty veteran players of this game,

Will you please share with us lesser beings a pittance of your vast wisdom? False modesty aside, how the fudge do you manage to circle strafe so easily (or at least make it look so easy)? I'd be in awe of what some of those tiny Mechs can do, if they weren't cutting me off at the knees in the process.

I remember the first time I fell victim to this wizardry. I was struttin' in my brand new Assault Mech, thinking I was all that and a bag of chips, when I saw this little guy rapidly approaching. I said to myself, "Self, this is adorable. He actually thinks he can HOW THE HECK AM I DEAD ALREADY???" Then I shouted out something profane, something that I can't repeat here, but it rhymes with "luck stick"

Anyway, is there a trick that I'm missing, perhaps something that can be saved in a programmable mouse and/or keyboard? Or is it like getting to Carnegie Hall: practice, practice, practice? Because I've been practicing for *glances at clock* almost a whole ten minutes and I think I'm actually getting worse at it. Help me, Obi-Mechwarriors-Kenobi, you're my only hope.

To paraphrase Matthew McConaughey: it'd be a lot cooler if ya dee-yid.

Love,


me

[Tesunie]

Remember the objective of what a "circle strafe" is, to get and stay behind the enemy.

Your movements need to achieve this goal, or it's not going to work. This can be achieved in many ways, depending upon the skill of the target.

If your target continues to turn with you as you circle, than they will never catch you as you move around them in the direction they are moving. Thus, you can just circle the target and basically remain safe from them.

However, if your target is smart and rotates the opposite direction after a short while, they can catch you in their gun sights, and those light mechs don't take much before going down. This is when things get interesting, as you'd have to realize what they are doing, and quickly stop and start to rotate the opposite direction.

The second example is considered circling still, even though the action may look more like a half circle sometimes. If you just circle your target, you become predictable, so don't just circle them. You need to keep an eye on their movements, and even know when to break and run to find a better angle to attack from. Commit too long and in too predictable of a pattern, and it may jeopardize you. This is also why it is often unwise to poke out from the same spot more than twice. Eventually, the enemy will come to expect you to poke out again from that spot, and just wait with their guns lined up and ready for you...


It's about being reactive and obtaining a goal. The goal in this case is to stay outside your opponent's gun fire. Do so well, and they can't kill you as you kill them. Fail, and expect to be the one being killed, instead of killing.

There is no specific things I can actually recommend here. It will be practice and intuition, not a dry tactical manual that will relay this skill to you. As a side note, not everyone can even do this as it is. If you aren't getting the hang of it after a while, it might not be a tactic for you. Or, maybe not right now at least.

[Nick Makiaveli]

What he said. ^^^

[Sickario]

Thanks, Tesunie, that makes a lot of sense. Yeah that's probably the key to it all, is being able to react quickly enough; not only to the target spinning another direction, but them moving around, forward or backward. I've seen guys that can just stay behind the target no matter what, and yeah it's probably going to take a ton of practice. I'm just trying to do it on the testing grounds and I can't manage to circle the target and keep my aim on their legs, and that's with stationary targets that aren't shooting back.

All my joking in the OP aside I really do love watching skilled Lights go into battle. I'm gonna keep practicing but mostly just now and then, for now I need a ton of C-bills because I got way too many Mechs at once, trying to decide what's my best fit. So now I need to eventually get them all geared out, with all the modules they need. I've been playing for about 6 weeks give or take, and I've got a lot to learn.

Thanks again for the reply.

[Tesunie]

Sickario, on 06 February 2017 - 09:23 PM, said:

...with all the modules they need.

For the record, though we don't know when exactly, all modules (besides consumables) are intended to be removed from the game. Anything used to purchase those modules (experience and C-bills) will be reimbursed.

What I'm basically saying is, you can continue to get modules if you wish, but you don't really need to concentrate on that too much at this time. I'd also like to comment that most modules are not a necessity. Get them if you can, but don't worry too much about them either. Only one I'd worry about getting would probably be Radar Deprivation. Otherwise, concentrate on making mech builds you enjoy using and can do well in.

A good mech build will earn enough C-bills to repurchase itself. Spend C-bills on improving your mechs to better suit you.

[Jingseng]

Also to point out - you were in an assault. You are slow This also relates to your ability to turn (and occasionally, the amount/arc you can turn. In short, Assaults are coffin death traps vs. faster mechs (especially lights). Infantry far away from bunkers are dead - up close, the tables are turned.

Keep in mind though, that no mech (to my knowledge) is capable of a perfect circle-strafe/circling move. It is always an awkward oval or spiral (in or out). But you'll still need back up of some sort (another light, or even another heavy a few paces back) to deal, usually.

Your best hopes otherwise are usually to rotate opposite (if they are going CW you should go CCW to catch them in half the time, rather than constantly trail behind). But you still have to maintain awareness - it's no good turning around to chase a light and leave your rear open to the entire enemy team. Sometimes you just have to push and hope someone behind you is competent and observant enough to take care of it (they usually arent though) before you get taken care of.

And while Tes usually (afaik always) gives great advice, what's written above was for a strafer... and you the OP, it reads a lot more like you got strafed.

Other things to help you - arm mounted weapons often (with lower/hand actuators) have more degree of coverage & faster movement. short range, rapid fire weapons there can often persuade the litte 'uns to go bother someone else (or kil them outright). Catching them out in the open, at range, remarkably reduces their survival time. Maintain lock on a light mech circling you (increases the odds of lrms coming to help), especially if you are both in the open.

Some people have a mouse DPI toggle to shift between fast jerky twisting and methodical aiming (it's all still limited by your mech's yaw rating, but you start turning sooner); if you are uncomfortable with arm aiming, or don't have arm weapons, etc. etc., you may as well lock torso and arms - you'll begin turning immediately, as opposed to arms turning first and torso (very) shortly after. Generally not recommended to lock arms/torso though.

[Sickario]

Tesunie, on 06 February 2017 - 09:28 PM, said:

For the record, though we don't know when exactly, all modules (besides consumables) are intended to be removed from the game. Anything used to purchase those modules (experience and C-bills) will be reimbursed.

What I'm basically saying is, you can continue to get modules if you wish, but you don't really need to concentrate on that too much at this time. I'd also like to comment that most modules are not a necessity. Get them if you can, but don't worry too much about them either. Only one I'd worry about getting would probably be Radar Deprivation. Otherwise, concentrate on making mech builds you enjoy using and can do well in.

A good mech build will earn enough C-bills to repurchase itself. Spend C-bills on improving your mechs to better suit you.

Yeah, Radar Deprivation is primarily what I'm trying to get a few more of, if I can. I have 5 so far, but I'd like 2 for every weight class to reduce the swapping around as much as possible. I have 3 Assaults and 3 Heavies, but quite a few Mediums and Lights (I want to say at least 5 but I'm not entirely sure). Two of them I intend to sell when they make the tree changes, I got them just to get Elites for the one that I'll be keeping, the Locust Hero. Maybe I won't sell the other two but I just don't think I'll need them, and that money can be used for other things that I'll need more.

I'm looking forward to seeing the changes in the test server, so I know exactly what to expect. I have a feeling the changes to the skill trees may get delayed, but it's nothing but a hunch so I'm not acting on it. And you're right, the other stuff isn't nearly as important, but I figure since I'll (hopefully) get reimbursed for all those RD's anyway it's not like those C-bills are going to waste. After I get my RD's I probably won't get any other modules, possibly a Seismic Sensor but I may wait until I see the changes in Test before I get it. I just hope the changes will happen soon, and that I'm wrong about my hunch.

[Sickario]

Jingseng, on 06 February 2017 - 09:39 PM, said:

Other things to help you - arm mounted weapons often (with lower/hand actuators) have more degree of coverage & faster movement. short range, rapid fire weapons there can often persuade the litte 'uns to go bother someone else (or kil them outright). Catching them out in the open, at range, remarkably reduces their survival time. Maintain lock on a light mech circling you (increases the odds of lrms coming to help), especially if you are both in the open.

Some people have a mouse DPI toggle to shift between fast jerky twisting and methodical aiming (it's all still limited by your mech's yaw rating, but you start turning sooner); if you are uncomfortable with arm aiming, or don't have arm weapons, etc. etc., you may as well lock torso and arms - you'll begin turning immediately, as opposed to arms turning first and torso (very) shortly after. Generally not recommended to lock arms/torso though.

Excellent points. I'll admit that I'm still a bit confused about EVERYTHING concerning arms haha, I need to address that sooner or later because I'm sure it's handy but like I said earlier, I have so much to learn still.

I will say one thing, it was definitely a circle strafe (I remember it from the first Quake games, those were so much fun). He ran around me a couple of times, maybe 3 or 4 at the most, and my legs were gone. He was FAST, hitting me with machine guns and something else, it was one of my first Quick Plays and it was back in December so the details aren't clear, plus the fact that it was over so fast didn't help (and neither did my awful memory).

Thanks for the input!

[Rushin Roulette]

Sickario, on 06 February 2017 - 08:23 PM, said:

Dear great and mighty veteran players of this game,

Will you please share with us lesser beings a pittance of your vast wisdom? False modesty aside, how the fudge do you manage to circle strafe so easily (or at least make it look so easy)? I'd be in awe of what some of those tiny Mechs can do, if they weren't cutting me off at the knees in the process.

I remember the first time I fell victim to this wizardry. I was struttin' in my brand new Assault Mech, thinking I was all that and a bag of chips, when I saw this little guy rapidly approaching. I said to myself, "Self, this is adorable. He actually thinks he can HOW THE HECK AM I DEAD ALREADY???" Then I shouted out something profane, something that I can't repeat here, but it rhymes with "luck stick"

Anyway, is there a trick that I'm missing, perhaps something that can be saved in a programmable mouse and/or keyboard? Or is it like getting to Carnegie Hall: practice, practice, practice? Because I've been practicing for *glances at clock* almost a whole ten minutes and I think I'm actually getting worse at it. Help me, Obi-Mechwarriors-Kenobi, you're my only hope.

To paraphrase Matthew McConaughey: it'd be a lot cooler if ya dee-yid.

Love,


me

Id also like to add to what as been said about Circling. Believe it or not, the absolute best counter to a circling light mech is your "S" button. Stop moving forwards , turn around and walk backwards.

A circle is never a circle around a moving object. As soon as you are moving, the circle turns into an egg shape with the narrower side of the egg in the direction of movement. If you are moving forward, then the narrower part of the movement profile will be where your guns are. If you are moving backwards, then the narrower part will be where your back armour is the thinnest and the part of the Egg with the most exposure to your guns will be where the guns can shoot.
An added bonus is that while moving backwards you are slower, thus your torso twisting and leg turning is more effective as well.

[Sickario]

Rushin Roulette, on 06 February 2017 - 09:57 PM, said:

Id also like to add to what as been said about Circling. Believe it or not, the absolute best counter to a circling light mech is your "S" button. Stop moving forwards , turn around and walk backwards.

A circle is never a circle around a moving object. As soon as you are moving, the circle turns into an egg shape with the narrower side of the egg in the direction of movement. If you are moving forward, then the narrower part of the movement profile will be where your guns are. If you are moving backwards, then the narrower part will be where your back armour is the thinnest and the part of the Egg with the most exposure to your guns will be where the guns can shoot.
An added bonus is that while moving backwards you are slower, thus your torso twisting and leg turning is more effective as well.

Very good point. I definitely try to move, but you're right that I should try to back up.

EDIT: BTW your name is awesome.

Edited by Sickario, 06 February 2017 - 10:50 PM.

[Jingseng]

Yes, i remember those too... and we do not have them in MWO. We have 'circling', but it is often an imperfect thing... because your forward speed is not equal to your lateral speed. So often pilots will have to stop (usually behind you while shooting) and adjust their vectors... or just plain crash into you.

Knowing this can help you when moving and countering, by timing your movements and direction to further throw off their moves and give yourself some aiming space... or engineer a crash for a point blank beating.

[Koniving]

Sickario, on 06 February 2017 - 08:23 PM, said:

Dear great and mighty veteran players of this game,

Will you please share with us lesser beings a pittance of your vast wisdom? False modesty aside, how the fudge do you manage to circle strafe so easily (or at least make it look so easy)? I'd be in awe of what some of those tiny Mechs can do, if they weren't cutting me off at the knees in the process.

I remember the first time I fell victim to this wizardry. I was struttin' in my brand new Assault Mech, thinking I was all that and a bag of chips, when I saw this little guy rapidly approaching. I said to myself, "Self, this is adorable. He actually thinks he can HOW THE HECK AM I DEAD ALREADY???" Then I shouted out something profane, something that I can't repeat here, but it rhymes with "luck stick"

Anyway, is there a trick that I'm missing, perhaps something that can be saved in a programmable mouse and/or keyboard? Or is it like getting to Carnegie Hall: practice, practice, practice? Because I've been practicing for *glances at clock* almost a whole ten minutes and I think I'm actually getting worse at it. Help me, Obi-Mechwarriors-Kenobi, you're my only hope.

To paraphrase Matthew McConaughey: it'd be a lot cooler if ya dee-yid.

Love,


me

Twist 90 degrees left or right...
If left, press A while going forward at full speed and tap as necessary. If right tap D while going full speed and tap as necessary. Move mouse as needed to keep aim consistent

Not much more to it really.

I think part of it being easy has to do with throttle decay being off so that cruise control is on.

[Sickario]

Koniving, on 06 February 2017 - 10:50 PM, said:

Twist 90 degrees left or right...
If left, press A while going forward at full speed and tap as necessary. If right tap D while going full speed and tap as necessary. Move mouse as needed to keep aim consistent

Not much more to it really.

I think part of it being easy has to do with throttle decay being off so that cruise control is on.

You make it sound easy, I shall work on it.

[Tesunie]

Sickario, on 06 February 2017 - 11:35 PM, said:

You make it sound easy, I shall work on it.

It always sounds easy. Honestly, it is easy, if you keep your wits about you.

However, in the moment, when everything is happening and the pressure is on, you sometimes have a split second to make those choices. Sometimes, panic can cloud your decision making, or sometimes even pride or arrogance.

Remember, you have allies in your fight as well. Teammates whom you should support, and thus should be supported by. If you are in an assault, stay near your team as much as you can, and you should find people willing to help protect your back. Pride may fool you into thinking you can do it all alone, as much as panic can cause you to make as equally poor of a mistake.

In the end, everything normally sounds easier than it actually is. Keep trying, and if it isn't working try something else. This is a game after all, where one can make mistakes and have no real repercussions. Experiment and see what works for you. It is okay to find something that doesn't work for you, or "another way on how not to make a light bulb".

[Old-dirty B]

Tesunie, on 06 February 2017 - 08:56 PM, said:

The goal in this case is to stay outside your opponent's gun fire. Do so well, and they can't kill you as you kill them.

@OP, As light pilot (Locust), my goal is not only to stay out of guns fire but to stay in the enemies blind spot - preferably not just of your direct opponent but the entire team. The circle strafe is actually the least desirable movement pattern after the straight line as its very predictable, makes the light an easy target and only really works when the light has the speed to match the rotation speed of its target. In the latter, as an assault, try to back up against a wall and / or make the circle strafe as hard as possible the most chance you get to catch the light in your sights and mostly one trigger pull is enough to cripple or destroy the light.
As a light in that case i would break contact at the moment you are least aware of my direction and location to wait nearby and setup another ambush as you try to regroup / catchup...

The best thing you can do, especially in an assault, is not allow the oppurtunity to the light to ambush and engage you like that. Stick with the team, center or preferably at the tip, and you have the least to worry about your back. Go wander off, fall behind or stick to one place and a good light pilot will find you and take you out!

Edited by B3R3ND, 07 February 2017 - 12:51 AM.

[Fox With A Shotgun]

One thing I'd like to add here is that good light pilots will NOT circle strafe you in the event that a 1v1 happens - and they know that backup isn't behind you.

They look at where your feet are going, and match it while travelling backwards. For this reason, if you want to counter circle strafing, there's really only two options. You can move backwards and hope they keep trying to circle strafe, or you can back up against the nearest wall and don't expose your back.

[SnagaDance]

Something not yet mentined but a huge help in keeping guns on target: did you lower your mouse sensitivity in the game option already?

For some unfathomable reason PGI still has this setting at the full 1 as standard even though noone ever needs that much sensitivity. Lower it to something like 0.20 or 0.15 (depends on mouse dpi and such) and see how that goes for you.

[Rogue Jedi]

Sickario, on 06 February 2017 - 09:56 PM, said:

Excellent points. I'll admit that I'm still a bit confused about EVERYTHING concerning arms haha, I need to address that sooner or later because I'm sure it's handy but like I said earlier, I have so much to learn still.

with regards to arms, some Mechs ^{(Stalker, King Crab, Catapult, Jagermech, Blackjack, Jenner and Locust to name a few)} have no lower arm actuator, that means the arm cannot move side to side without moving the torso as well ^{(but they can still aim up/down if the arms are not locked)}, other Mechs have a lower arm actuator on just 1 arm, those Mechs have limited side to side movement available on the arms, Mechs with lower acturators on both arms have much more side to side arm movement than those with just 1, the hand actuator does not help with side to side movement.

basicly what the lower arm actuator buys you ^{(assuming arm lock is not active)} is much faster tracking for your arm mounted weapons, and a further range of movement for those weapons, lets say you are piloting an Atlas ^{(it has lower arm acturtors on both arms)} now a light Mech is circleng you, if your arms are locked your ability to track is limited to the torsos range of movement and your Mechs twist speed, now lets say you unlock the arms, suddenly your arm mounted weapons have almost double the tracking speed and (on most varients) an extra 40^o each way of movement, which concidering the atlas has 80^o of torso movement means the arms literaly double your arm weapons movement range and speed.

Light Mechs in the right hands are rather good at killing assualt Mechs, basicly a good assualt pilot will easily take care of a Light Mech with an inexperianced pilot, however if they are of equil skill I would bet on the Light Mech winning.

the things which would make me (a highly experianced Light pilot) back off from an assualt are if it switches into reverse to speed turning, and proves able to hit my legs ^{(in most Lights I do not care about taking damage to the torsos because that is spread between 3-5 hitboxes with each shot but damage to the legs is only spread between 2 hitboxes so the legs will not last as long)}, or if it puts its back up against a wall

many people put almost no armor on the back, I have Light Mechs setup specificaly to strip 8^(SDR-5K)-30 ^{(VPR-M, yes technicaly a medium but realy just an overweight Light)} points of armor with a laser alpha strike then remove yout CT internal structure in about 5 seconds with a combonation of lasers and machine guns, against armor a single machine gun does 0.8 dps, 4 do 3.2, 6 do 4.8, however they have a high critical hit ratio meaning against structure they can do several times that much damage,

in those builds I have many times been accused of cheating because the enemy thaught I killed them from 1km+ with a single Alpha strike, rather than what realy happened, me getting behind them while they were distracted and killing them with Pulse Lasers + MGs in ^{(usualy much)} less than 10 seconds.

[Darth Hotz]

Walk backwards and get your butt on a wall. Next game check that you are not left behind alone.

[Amatsukaze]

I am pretty new to this & as a devotee to lights have to say in my experience circle strafe is one of the least desirable ways to fight an assault at least for me.
For me I stay away from full speed because while it make it hard for you to get hit it also makes it harder for you to hit what you are aiming at & if the assault driver does know his stuff gives him a brief second each rotation to take a shot at you. What I do is run up behind the mech & stop (assuming he is foolish enough to be alone with no supporting mechs nearby) then start shooting. When he reacts it becomes a square dance. He walks forward I stick on his heels. He docedoes to the left & I stick with him moving just slightly faster then him. He backs up then so do I staying right behind him the entire time. One thing to be mindful of is if hes smart hes called for aide. Don't get so target focused that you aren't watching for others to come running (experience talking).

One thing I have noticed if I am in a locust is if the mech I am attacking only has torso mounted weapons they cant depress their guns enough to shoot you if you are standing at their feet. One poor guy thought he was smart backing against a wall in Grim Plexis well I just stood on his toes basically & wore his legs out.