Title says it all. We had the energy draw system on the PTS back in August/September. I foudn it to be much more transparent than what is currently in game, but it left the PTS and now I have heard nothing. Is this system still on the board for potential implementation, or have the Devs decided that it's not something that they wish to pursue further?
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Energy Draw Pts? What Is Happening With This System?
Started by Czerno Alpha, Feb 18 2017 01:39 AM
2 replies to this topic
#2
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- Bad Company
- 894 posts
Member
- LocationUK
Posted 23 February 2017 - 03:29 AM
I think it is dead.
Mainly because the problem lies in the broken heat system. The solution of pumping more heat into the system won't fix it.
0% to 99% heat is meaningless. If you can ride that 99% you're as good as someone who keeps heat down to in the 20% range.
scaling heat penalties are the fix in my opinion. then you can run hot but have problems with things like top speed etc.
Mainly because the problem lies in the broken heat system. The solution of pumping more heat into the system won't fix it.
0% to 99% heat is meaningless. If you can ride that 99% you're as good as someone who keeps heat down to in the 20% range.
scaling heat penalties are the fix in my opinion. then you can run hot but have problems with things like top speed etc.
#3
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- Bad Company
- 419 posts
Member
Posted 23 February 2017 - 09:24 AM
They could simply add energy values to the weapons like they do with heat so that you cannot fire the bigger weapons as much. And make it work with the heat system exactly how it is now.
Example:
Total energy: 30 capacitance; Regen: 5 energy/second
Or
Total energy: 33 capacitance; Regen: 3 energy/second
Capacitance and regen are both possibly upgradable via skills.
Misc: 0
IS:
Flamer: 0
MG: 0
Tag:0
AMS: 0
NARC: 0
Clan:
C-Flamer: 0
C-MG: 0
C-Tag: 0
C-AMS: 0
C-NARC: 0
Energy:
IS: Damage/2
SL: 1.5
SPL: 2
ML: 2.5
MPL: 3
LL: 4.5
ERLL: 4.5
LPL: 5.5
PPC: 5
ERPPC: 5
Clan: Damage/3 (including splash damage)
C-ERSL: 1.66
C-SPL: 2
C-ERML: 2.33
C-MPL: 2.66
C-ERLL: 3.66
C-LPL: 4.33
C-ERPPC: 5
Missiles: Damage/4
IS:
SSRM2: 1
SRM2: 1*
SRM4: 2*
SRM6: 3*
LRM5: 1.25
LRM10: 2.5
LRM15: 3.75
LRM20: 5
*(or rank*2/4 incase of SRM)
Clan:
C-SRM2: 1
C-SSRM2: 1
C-SRM4: 2
C-SSRM4: 2
C-SRM6: 3
C-SSRM6: 3
C-LRM5: 1.25
C-LRM10: 2.5
C-LRM15: 3.75
C-LRM20: 5
Balistics: Damage/4
IS:
AC/2: 0.5
AC/5: 1.25
UAC/5: 1.25
AC/10: 2.5
LBX/10: 2.5
AC/20: 5
Guass: 5**
Clan:
C-AC2: 0.5
C-UAC2: 0.5
C-LBX2: 0.5
C-AC5: 1.25
C-UAC5: 1.25
C-LBX5: 1.25
C-AC10: 2.5
C-UAC10: 2.5
C-LBX10: 2.5
C-AC20: 5
C-UAC20: 5
C-LBX20: 5
C-Gauss: 5**
**Damage/3 Energy drained During charge. Lost charge will return to energy bar up to max. If allowed it may add extra capacitence temporarily. This allows excess charge upon release.(Max of +10 total extra Capacitance. IE total of 10 gauss total energy drain.) Extra capacitance slowly reduces over time(1 per second).
Note: A realistic system would probably require a lot more energy for energy weapons and probably drastically change all values... Although I don't know the specifics. So, I could be wrong. It would interesting to see those specifics though...
This should slow down volleys reduce repeated alphas and require people to rely on each other more so they can get the same damage off in the same time(actually quicker). Basically get people to rely on each other instead of soloing everything when they realize that you cannot shoot as many time as previously.
It would also cause Dual gauss PPC to charge to 40 or 43 capacitance to get a full charge. slowing down how many times it can be fired in a row. Alphas would also generally max our charge along with larger weapons or larger amounts of small weapons.
This would all work with the current heat system and not in place of it as the PTS system is supposed to do.
Quirks could also be added to reduce energy cost of various weapons/ categories in addition to or instead of skills that upgrade capacitance and regen.
In fact you could add some sort of system like this then add realistic physics based heat system and balance the game in a new way. Just simulate stuff. don't try to make balancing systems as the reality of using real life science is you balance it in a much more complex way.
Edit: Actually, technically what the game needs it totally realistic systems to balance the game out for them. then make the rest of the game to allow those systems to play out. Realism is balance. It's natural balance! Which does not mean everything is equally viable. It means everything has different aspects and you use them accordingly. One of those aspects, besides the equipment, that is completely underuse is pricing. with the money we make in game much cheaper small light mechs could be good for the game. It would get more light mechs and give people the ability to work their way up. A giant assault mech should cost alot more than it does comparitively to a tiny mech. Unless it has some really expensive equipment in it. which is then a more complex issue about pricing and manufacturing vs ownership and other issues. (IE pricing is not about material cost of cost to develop. It's more about profit. And the rest is inflated to desired outcomes given the situation..)
But either way that is how you make a good game. This FPS crap is overly simple and why these games keep not coming out well.. You need to apply a little(or preferably a lot) more knowledge to them and use that to make the game. then you don't worry about balance. You worry about world design and more realism which you can find more easily than making it up entirely yourself. As much as I hate this phrase, it's like not reinventing the wheel. Although the real reason is to get an easier leg up on complexity to give room for the game to exist. Simplicity actualy makes it harder to design and get good results. As each value has more relative importance and impact because of the lack of values. complexity lets you change things more easily without having as much of an impact and fine tune things without a natural mess occuring. So, realism and natrual complexity are always the go to for good game design. This was actually known in the past and games were designed on it. But computers were smaller. Sadly this has not continued as education has decreased world wide. And people make game with engines and other things and people with less relative education work in game fields and other areas as that ease develops in a field of work. Hence producing lower quality but higher cost goods. (which is also because less knowledge produces less ability and hence desperation and need for that one thing to do well. Just like the simpler mechanics. This is the basics of ethics and everything in the natural world. Everything is about knowledge and how much you need to learn. AKA how much you do learn!)
BTW, the greater the education(the pool of info in your head not a degree from a college as it has no mechanical implications in itself) the more people want to make more. And hence make better more interesting things. And in game design it's all about more complex more interesting things. As that is, like reality, what makes the thing itself.
You could probably make a pretty detailed system too. Deduce based on known factors and needed factors what would have to be. It would leave a lot less to figure out. And make for a profoundly different and more interesting game. And the knowledge to do this isn't that hard to obtain. At least not since the leg work was done decades to centuries ago, if not more, and is conveniently in lots of book all over the world and generally easily accessible! 8d
Example:
Total energy: 30 capacitance; Regen: 5 energy/second
Or
Total energy: 33 capacitance; Regen: 3 energy/second
Capacitance and regen are both possibly upgradable via skills.
Misc: 0
IS:
Flamer: 0
MG: 0
Tag:0
AMS: 0
NARC: 0
Clan:
C-Flamer: 0
C-MG: 0
C-Tag: 0
C-AMS: 0
C-NARC: 0
Energy:
IS: Damage/2
SL: 1.5
SPL: 2
ML: 2.5
MPL: 3
LL: 4.5
ERLL: 4.5
LPL: 5.5
PPC: 5
ERPPC: 5
Clan: Damage/3 (including splash damage)
C-ERSL: 1.66
C-SPL: 2
C-ERML: 2.33
C-MPL: 2.66
C-ERLL: 3.66
C-LPL: 4.33
C-ERPPC: 5
Missiles: Damage/4
IS:
SSRM2: 1
SRM2: 1*
SRM4: 2*
SRM6: 3*
LRM5: 1.25
LRM10: 2.5
LRM15: 3.75
LRM20: 5
*(or rank*2/4 incase of SRM)
Clan:
C-SRM2: 1
C-SSRM2: 1
C-SRM4: 2
C-SSRM4: 2
C-SRM6: 3
C-SSRM6: 3
C-LRM5: 1.25
C-LRM10: 2.5
C-LRM15: 3.75
C-LRM20: 5
Balistics: Damage/4
IS:
AC/2: 0.5
AC/5: 1.25
UAC/5: 1.25
AC/10: 2.5
LBX/10: 2.5
AC/20: 5
Guass: 5**
Clan:
C-AC2: 0.5
C-UAC2: 0.5
C-LBX2: 0.5
C-AC5: 1.25
C-UAC5: 1.25
C-LBX5: 1.25
C-AC10: 2.5
C-UAC10: 2.5
C-LBX10: 2.5
C-AC20: 5
C-UAC20: 5
C-LBX20: 5
C-Gauss: 5**
**Damage/3 Energy drained During charge. Lost charge will return to energy bar up to max. If allowed it may add extra capacitence temporarily. This allows excess charge upon release.(Max of +10 total extra Capacitance. IE total of 10 gauss total energy drain.) Extra capacitance slowly reduces over time(1 per second).
Note: A realistic system would probably require a lot more energy for energy weapons and probably drastically change all values... Although I don't know the specifics. So, I could be wrong. It would interesting to see those specifics though...
This should slow down volleys reduce repeated alphas and require people to rely on each other more so they can get the same damage off in the same time(actually quicker). Basically get people to rely on each other instead of soloing everything when they realize that you cannot shoot as many time as previously.
It would also cause Dual gauss PPC to charge to 40 or 43 capacitance to get a full charge. slowing down how many times it can be fired in a row. Alphas would also generally max our charge along with larger weapons or larger amounts of small weapons.
This would all work with the current heat system and not in place of it as the PTS system is supposed to do.
Quirks could also be added to reduce energy cost of various weapons/ categories in addition to or instead of skills that upgrade capacitance and regen.
In fact you could add some sort of system like this then add realistic physics based heat system and balance the game in a new way. Just simulate stuff. don't try to make balancing systems as the reality of using real life science is you balance it in a much more complex way.
Edit: Actually, technically what the game needs it totally realistic systems to balance the game out for them. then make the rest of the game to allow those systems to play out. Realism is balance. It's natural balance! Which does not mean everything is equally viable. It means everything has different aspects and you use them accordingly. One of those aspects, besides the equipment, that is completely underuse is pricing. with the money we make in game much cheaper small light mechs could be good for the game. It would get more light mechs and give people the ability to work their way up. A giant assault mech should cost alot more than it does comparitively to a tiny mech. Unless it has some really expensive equipment in it. which is then a more complex issue about pricing and manufacturing vs ownership and other issues. (IE pricing is not about material cost of cost to develop. It's more about profit. And the rest is inflated to desired outcomes given the situation..)
But either way that is how you make a good game. This FPS crap is overly simple and why these games keep not coming out well.. You need to apply a little(or preferably a lot) more knowledge to them and use that to make the game. then you don't worry about balance. You worry about world design and more realism which you can find more easily than making it up entirely yourself. As much as I hate this phrase, it's like not reinventing the wheel. Although the real reason is to get an easier leg up on complexity to give room for the game to exist. Simplicity actualy makes it harder to design and get good results. As each value has more relative importance and impact because of the lack of values. complexity lets you change things more easily without having as much of an impact and fine tune things without a natural mess occuring. So, realism and natrual complexity are always the go to for good game design. This was actually known in the past and games were designed on it. But computers were smaller. Sadly this has not continued as education has decreased world wide. And people make game with engines and other things and people with less relative education work in game fields and other areas as that ease develops in a field of work. Hence producing lower quality but higher cost goods. (which is also because less knowledge produces less ability and hence desperation and need for that one thing to do well. Just like the simpler mechanics. This is the basics of ethics and everything in the natural world. Everything is about knowledge and how much you need to learn. AKA how much you do learn!)
BTW, the greater the education(the pool of info in your head not a degree from a college as it has no mechanical implications in itself) the more people want to make more. And hence make better more interesting things. And in game design it's all about more complex more interesting things. As that is, like reality, what makes the thing itself.
You could probably make a pretty detailed system too. Deduce based on known factors and needed factors what would have to be. It would leave a lot less to figure out. And make for a profoundly different and more interesting game. And the knowledge to do this isn't that hard to obtain. At least not since the leg work was done decades to centuries ago, if not more, and is conveniently in lots of book all over the world and generally easily accessible! 8d
Edited by Arugela, 24 February 2017 - 05:25 AM.
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