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Considering Is Xl Engine On King Crab


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#1 The6thMessenger

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Posted 18 February 2017 - 05:35 PM

Here's something to consider for King Crab users. King Crab is a 100-tonner, and is quite slow, an STD300 means you'd be left behind by the pack if they're inconsiderate, and even if they are to do so means not positioning quickly can be a detriment to the team. Putting higher engine means you'll have less firepower.

So to anyone getting a King Crab, depending on your build consider XL engine with high rating. Of course that does not mean brawling builds like 2x AC20 with XL should be considered, but something like 2x Gauss + 2x PPC, or gauss vomit, or laser vomit, even Dakka -- as long as you have a build that can afford mid range to long range, XL engine is something you should consider trying.

Because being faster, from 48 KPH to 62 KPH is a big deal, and in addition better turn rate. This does not mean however that you can just run off somewhere, no, still share armor with your team and torso twist, the main point of having speed is to be able to catch up with your team. And while you will die a lot faster, at least you will deal a lot more damage than when you're singled out by roaming lights.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 18 February 2017 - 06:44 PM.


#2 Moebius Pi

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Posted 18 February 2017 - 10:37 PM

You can still do dual erppc and dual gauss at 50+ kph on a king crab with ease; the only build I've ever went XL on a King Crab given the risks is dual gauss 3x ERLL; didn't have big issues given how readily it could reach out and touch someone vs a std loadout. The dakka, ac10 +4x srm6 art, lpl srm, or ac20 lpl/ppc et.c builds are generally std, as well as erppc + gauss (though you can do a faster, cooler version with XL if you're ballsy). If it isn't a long range build though, XL just doesn't seem worth it on crab cakes; some intrepid light is nearly guaranteed to try to flank you regardless of 12 or so more kph.

That said their is no cure for 'tater'tardation (especially in quickplay); you can be at 62 KPH and you will still get a team of derps leaving the assaults in the dust to nascar unnecessarily rather than anything exceedingly basic, like, you know, forming up into the most basic of death blobs; until you get close to 70kph it's damn near inevitable.

At that point you're probably just better off with a build that can at least hit the mid to long range on a KCG and be prepared to get jail-house-rocked "dropped the soap" style just like you would in any other slow Assault. Definitely could use an armor or structure boost in the end.

#3 The6thMessenger

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 03:15 AM

View PostProbably Not, on 18 February 2017 - 10:33 PM, said:

I'm no assault driver, but this seems like a really bad idea.

I'm really not sure how much more survivable this would make the KGC against marauding lights.

Let me put it this way: as a light driver, I absolutely would not fear a slightly faster, slightly more twisty KGC any more than I fear a standard-running KGC because I can pretty much guarantee I will still be able to get behind him and molest him thoroughly unless his friends are nearby.


Because the point is that it's not supposed to outrun or out turn lights, it's supposed to prevent the King Crab from being left behind by the team, which is the deterrent in the first place.

View PostMoebius Pi, on 18 February 2017 - 10:37 PM, said:

That said their is no cure for 'tater'tardation (especially in quickplay); you can be at 62 KPH and you will still get a team of derps leaving the assaults in the dust to nascar unnecessarily rather than anything exceedingly basic, like, you know, forming up into the most basic of death blobs; until you get close to 70kph it's damn near inevitable.

At that point you're probably just better off with a build that can at least hit the mid to long range on a KCG and be prepared to get jail-house-rocked "dropped the soap" style just like you would in any other slow Assault. Definitely could use an armor or structure boost in the end.


True, but it's far healthier than being singled out when not in a nascar.

#4 McHoshi

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 04:32 AM

King Grab is "not" XL friendly because of it´s really huge side torso hitboxes Posted Image

*just my 2 cents


P.S. But you can try something like that. Then you are fast enough to not be left behind. Posted Image

Edited by McHoshi, 19 February 2017 - 04:37 AM.


#5 The6thMessenger

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 06:51 AM

View PostProbably Not, on 19 February 2017 - 06:14 AM, said:

I understand, but like Moebius said, you can max the engine out on that thing and if the spuds want to play nascar, they're gonna play nascar and you're still screwed. There isn't much you can really do other than politely remind people on voice or in text not to ditch their Charlie lance.


IF they nascar. It's common sure, but at least you can keep up on the other instances they don't nascar, not like it's the total norm and happens EVERY game. At least if nascar happens 50% of the time, and KGC is left behind 80% of the time, XL360 would make it so that you only get left behind 40% of the time, and it's really kind of a sweet deal.

View PostMcHoshi, on 19 February 2017 - 04:32 AM, said:

King Grab is "not" XL friendly because of it´s really huge side torso hitboxes Posted Image

*just my 2 cents


Yeah, duh, like i said in the beginning.

View PostMcHoshi, on 19 February 2017 - 04:32 AM, said:

P.S. But you can try something like that. Then you are fast enough to not be left behind. Posted Image


Sweet jesus, that's heretical. I could do that with a mech that can move faster, and have better hitboxes.

#6 Widowmaker1981

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 08:46 AM

You might as well, because a STD engine King Crab is just an inferior mauler. XL Crabs are kinda horrible though, so.. yeah. Get Maulers instead.

#7 Kuaron

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 08:53 AM

You were the one with the other KGC thread with all those hilariously slow STD300 builds snubing people pointing on them being too slow, weren’t you?

#8 The6thMessenger

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 03:39 PM

View PostKuaron, on 19 February 2017 - 08:53 AM, said:

You were the one with the other KGC thread with all those hilariously slow STD300 builds snubing people pointing on them being too slow, weren’t you?


How i wish there's a LMGTFY for MWO forums. Or you know, you could have just went to the link in the signature instead.

I didn't snub people, i explained it to them. Likewise i did pointed out that they can change the engine to XL360, and there is more to the build than just the engine, it's the firepower that comes with it that is only available to such low enging rating if it were to be standard. This however is just a general tip in guiding builds for the King Crab that I meant to try to dispel the stigma of XL engine.

#9 Kuaron

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 04:35 PM

The question whether you were the same guy was a rhetorical one.
I agree though on the wish for the smiley, I could have use it in the other thread before abandoning it. :)

Maybe it was me misreading your tone. Maybe not.

To stay on topic:
Try those XL build but don't expect them to be better.
Maybe it would be different with IS LBX20 (or will be, in future), where you would see IS Scorch clones from time to time, but also popping as fast as expected from a Mech recognized as XL on paperdoll and with easily targeted STs.

#10 Kuaron

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 04:53 PM

True. Forgot about them.
But it's far and unknown future anyway. I'm still hoping PGI will manage to design the different engine types without making 2 out of 3 obsolete.

#11 The6thMessenger

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 05:34 PM

View PostKuaron, on 19 February 2017 - 04:35 PM, said:

The question whether you were the same guy was a rhetorical one.


Giving the benefit of the doubt, what's your point? I was the guy that suggested the Frigate builds, allegedly "snubbing" people, now what? What did we achieved?

View PostKuaron, on 19 February 2017 - 04:35 PM, said:

Maybe it was me misreading your tone. Maybe not.


Try reading it with the voice of Morgan Freeman.

Posted Image

View PostKuaron, on 19 February 2017 - 04:35 PM, said:

Try those XL build but don't expect them to be better.
Maybe it would be different with IS LBX20 (or will be, in future), where you would see IS Scorch clones from time to time, but also popping as fast as expected from a Mech recognized as XL on paperdoll and with easily targeted STs.


Try what builds? The Frigate?

It works rather nice actually.

I did specified that XL is best for mid to long range builds though.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 19 February 2017 - 05:44 PM.


#12 Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 05:37 PM

Considering King Crabs aren't that great anyway most of the time and people usually shoot their CT due to them commonly using STD engines, you're likely to be able to get away with using an XL with gauss+ERPPC builds and benefit from the speed and extra cooling.

Its a trade of of course, but I find XL is usually better than STD engine for IS outside of brawlers.

#13 The6thMessenger

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 05:46 PM

View PostDakota1000, on 19 February 2017 - 05:37 PM, said:

Its a trade of of course, but I find XL is usually better than STD engine for IS outside of brawlers.


True, until a light gets behind your juicy *** for being kind of faraway from your team sniping. :P

#14 Kuaron

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 06:30 PM

Quote

Try what builds?

The XL builds.
You shouldn't ask if you read before quoting.

#15 The6thMessenger

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 06:53 PM

View PostKuaron, on 19 February 2017 - 06:30 PM, said:

The XL builds.
You shouldn't ask if you read before quoting.


Or you know, you could have been more clear instead. Why don't we try this again without the high-and-mighty tone?

View PostKuaron, on 19 February 2017 - 06:30 PM, said:

The XL builds.


What "XL builds"? Are there specific setups that can't be done on STD engines? What does "those" have to do anything with it? Is there "XL builds" you are trying to exclude?

#16 Mad Ox

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Posted 20 February 2017 - 09:18 AM

Working on my King Crabs after the chicken leg sale picked up 2 to go with my (L) version. As I am working on them I try to stay at some range seems best way to spread damage an without the Full Pilot skills KC is a mighty slow pig

I started out as STD engines only in all of them... didnt matter Center Torso gets ripped to shreds faster then I can belch. With the rare exception of some light getting behind me after team (inevitably) ditches me and instead chews my REAR center torso.

Have since switched to XL and honestly see no reason to go back. The little extra speed and turning ability along with a bit more tonnage to equip mech with, seems to out weigh the theoretical increased risks of Side Kills. I still die mostly to center torso getting crushed with side torsos getting moderately damaged in both PUG's and GROUP games And yes I do twist spread damage best as I can. Makes me sick how much more durable my Atlas's are in comparison.

Edited by Mad Ox, 20 February 2017 - 09:19 AM.


#17 Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood

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Posted 20 February 2017 - 09:43 AM

View PostThe6thMessenger, on 19 February 2017 - 05:46 PM, said:


True, until a light gets behind your juicy *** for being kind of faraway from your team sniping. Posted Image


King Crabs have a huge torso yaw and arm mounted guns to aim low. I'd feel bad for the light trying to flank a dual gauss dual ERPPC Crab. Especially with the higher twist speed the XL gives you. You may just be worse off with a STD engine vs a light due to the lower speeds.

#18 meteorol

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Posted 20 February 2017 - 10:23 AM

View PostDakota1000, on 19 February 2017 - 05:37 PM, said:

Considering King Crabs aren't that great anyway most of the time and people usually shoot their CT due to them commonly using STD engines, you're likely to be able to get away with using an XL with gauss+ERPPC builds and benefit from the speed and extra cooling.

Its a trade of of course, but I find XL is usually better than STD engine for IS outside of brawlers.


Actually, it's quite easy to guess whether an KC has a STD or XL engine based on his loadout and movement speed.
I'm mostly XL checking mechs with commonly used builds that require XLs, but that aside, whenever i see enemy mechs moving i'm XL checking them based on their weapon loadout and movement speed. If i can't get target info because of ECM, i mostly do the XL check based on their movement speed alone, because i somewhat trust on people not to horribly undergun their mechs.

It works more often than not. Especially on KCs for whatever reason. You are so used to them being awkwardly slow that it almost screams I'M USING A XL ENGINE when one moves at decent speed.

#19 The6thMessenger

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Posted 20 February 2017 - 12:48 PM

View PostDakota1000, on 20 February 2017 - 09:43 AM, said:


King Crabs have a huge torso yaw and arm mounted guns to aim low. I'd feel bad for the light trying to flank a dual gauss dual ERPPC Crab. Especially with the higher twist speed the XL gives you. You may just be worse off with a STD engine vs a light due to the lower speeds.


Well, i did have lucky moments of legging a light with my 2x gauss 2x PPC time to time. But honestly it was a really frustrating affair.

Still, not like Lights only swarm you from the rear, they could be War_glaivez, in his 6x ER-ML Arctic Cheetah beaming from a distance.

#20 S 0 L E N Y A

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Posted 20 February 2017 - 01:48 PM

XL is not the worst idea for the KGC. Sure the side torsos are huge from the side, but the ct is HUGE from the front.

The mech does not shield very well either. So if you are going for a longer range build, I say go for it.





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