49 replies to this topic

[cazidin]

Greetings MechWarriors. Today I have a simple theory. PGI KNOWS exactly what they're doing with the new C-bill cost on the skill tree PTS. Yes. PGI actually does know what they're doing. Stop reading for a few minutes until the shock subsides and then keep reading!

What if PGI is using the new cost of the skill tree to incentivize players to buy MC or Mechpacks?

How does having a C-bill cost make players spend MC or Mechpacks? You may argue that it will have the opposite effect, and you may be right for some but for others?

Most players, even IF they hoarded modules and especially those who didn't or new players will need to spend even MORE money to enhance their mech, which means less money to buy other mechs, and if you DO buy mechs with C-bills still? Then you'll need to buy not only a new engine, a few double heat sinks, and maybe some weapons BUT you'll need to spend, in most cases, more than you spent on the mech to level it to elite!

So how will you get new mechs, if you're still playing? You'll need to buy MC! You could use MC to elite a mech, too, so either way you're spending real money. If you're a fat whale with money to burn you could buy a mechpack ($20-70) AND MC ($7-100) but you'll only just elite the mechs you recently bought!

Please, PGI. Remove the C-bill cost. The only currency we should spend is XP, and maybe some MC to re-spec. Encourage us to buy multiple variants, not discourage us from spending any money or even playing this game.

[FupDup]

The thing about mech packs is that they give you a minimum of 3 variants no matter what you do.

The new skill tree system is designed so that you receive a "discount" for owning only 1 variant in PTR versus 3 variants in live (which is a faulty comparison that people constantly make). If you actually have all 3 variants, though, your C-Bill and XP requirements to outfit them skyrocket in the new skill tree.

PGI's mech pack model seriously conflicts with their goal of making 1 variant in PTR have the slightly lower costs than 3 variants in live.

Edited by FupDup, 18 February 2017 - 07:22 PM.

[cazidin]

FupDup, on 18 February 2017 - 07:18 PM, said:

The thing about mech packs is that they give you a minimum of 3 variants no matter what you do.

The new skill tree system is designed so that you receive a "discount" for owning only 1 variant in PTR versus 3 variants in live (which is a faulty comparison that people constantly make). If you actually have all three variants, though, your C-Bill and XP requirements to outfit them skyrocket in the new skill tree.

PGI's mech pack model seriously conflicts with their goal of making 1 variant have the slightly lower costs than 3 variants in live.

You're right, Fup. So PGI will do one of two things. Keep the cost efficient mechpack system that we have now, and we'll need to spend a LOT of C-bills to elite all 3 (or 6) mechs, encouraging pre-ordering by offering 12+ million C-Bills or other incentives or they'll change it, and we'll have the ability to purchase just 1 variant, but at a technically higher cost per variant.

[Llymrel]

Its not a bad theory. It's also possible they plan on producing few new mechs to purchase while building MW5. It's already been said after MW5 they will port MWO to the new game engine. Why not make the game very grindy to keep people busy for 12 months? Likely no new maps, few new mechs, little change to game mechanics....they need to keep people busy.

If people buy MC to level fast like in Clash of Clans, all the better. If few new mechs, those 'whales' that have many mechs won't have much to buy anyways. Don't forget this will encourage a lot of people to buy premium time that will drive cashflow. I know at 190 mechs there are none left really that I want to even try out. New releases are slow, and I already own many of the mechs. When I finish mastering this latest batch of 20, there isn't much left to sink in CBills...so no MC for new mechbays or premium time.

I can see why PGI would do this, and I think it is a terrible idea to alienate long time players. They would stop all the complaints if the mech tree had 10-20 new capabilities and all current mech levels grandfathered to the new system. Then we could point at the shiny new things and grind away. It would also be nice if the mech tree was a tree where you had to make trade-off decisions vs. a shaggy bush that lets you boat to all the best upgrades. No one ever complains in WoW when they add 10 new levels with new abilities...but those are actual trees, and new shiny things.

[WolvesX]

Llymrel, on 18 February 2017 - 07:50 PM, said:

Its not a bad theory. It's also possible they plan on producing few new mechs to purchase while building MW5. It's already been said after MW5 they will port MWO to the new game engine.

Bullseye!

[DAYLEET]

FupDup, on 18 February 2017 - 07:18 PM, said:

The thing about mech packs is that they give you a minimum of 3 variants no matter what you do.

The new skill tree system is designed so that you receive a "discount" for owning only 1 variant in PTR versus 3 variants in live (which is a faulty comparison that people constantly make). If you actually have all 3 variants, though, your C-Bill and XP requirements to outfit them skyrocket in the new skill tree.

PGI's mech pack model seriously conflicts with their goal of making 1 variant in PTR have the slightly lower costs than 3 variants in live.

And if you get the collector edition because of the bitchin camo and 30% boost then you have 2 of the same variant. I know i cant resist and kit both with different loadout.

I might have just bought my last mech pack 3 days ago, knowing full well all my owned and grinded mech could get locked behind a paywall. I figured, nomather the nerf, i couldnt go wrong with the Kodiak(instead of preordering the Jav) and if the skill tree put all my mech behind a cbills paywall and every respect behind another cbill payway and if i find myself in billions of dept and every mech pack comes with tens of millions of dept... well ill be done getting new mech, cash or cbills, done because i dont even have a choice AHAH isnt it funny. Where does this plan make me want to buy MC or MechPack? It doesnt.

Edited by DAYLEET, 18 February 2017 - 09:14 PM.

[kuma8877]

We do know there is a price and pack structure overhaul coming soon. I expect it to reflect the switch to individual variants and their weight class respectively for price structure. The current model will be going away, it has to. Basing our opinions on the current state of affairs, with one new system being introduced now (skilltree) and one down the road (it's complementary pricing structure) probably won't be helpful to anyone's salt levels do to the inherent mismatch in philosophies we have right now.

So far, we can't be sure if they'll break down the 3x model into individual purchasable variants or if the price reduction in the Jav pack is going to be something more reflective of what is planned going forward. It's anyone's guess at this point but it will be changing.

[DAYLEET]

kuma8877, on 18 February 2017 - 10:18 PM, said:

or if the price reduction in the Jav pack is going to be something more reflective of what is planned going forward. It's anyone's guess at this point but it will be changing.

Russ already said it's because it's a 40 30tonner.

Edited by DAYLEET, 18 February 2017 - 10:58 PM.

[Myke Pantera]

I think we can all agree that when modules are removed, PGI needs to refund the CBills invested in those. Because of that necessity most of us will have very high amounts of CBills at their disposal. All this loose CBills would break economy. If I don't care about waiting a few months longer, i get enough CBills to not having to buy a single mech pack for next 2 years or so. That is bad for PGI's business model. So CBills costs for mastering mechs. I've got no issue with that.

The thing that bothers me a lot more than the initial CBill costs for mastering a mech are the CBill costs for respecing. Trying out different builds is what makes this game fun. I can't do that with the suggested respec costs. It reduces flexibility, and with it goes some of the fun. Less fun means less reasons to play or pay.

I am also worried about the 2.4 increase in XP costs since i have a lot of mechs that are mastered, but without the additional 79250 XP required to master them again. I am also worried how i will ever master the 7 Javelins i've preordered :\

[DAYLEET]

Probably Not, on 18 February 2017 - 10:50 PM, said:

???

Javelin is a light. Are you thinking of the Assassin?

30 not 40, ruff night.

Edited by DAYLEET, 18 February 2017 - 10:57 PM.

[Battlemaster56]

cazidin, on 18 February 2017 - 07:15 PM, said:

Greetings MechWarriors. Today I have a simple theory. PGI KNOWS exactly what they're doing with the new C-bill cost on the skill tree PTS. Yes. PGI actually does know what they're doing. Stop reading for a few minutes until the shock subsides and then keep reading!

What if PGI is using the new cost of the skill tree to incentivize players to buy MC or Mechpacks?

How does having a C-bill cost make players spend MC or Mechpacks? You may argue that it will have the opposite effect, and you may be right for some but for others?

Most players, even IF they hoarded modules and especially those who didn't or new players will need to spend even MORE money to enhance their mech, which means less money to buy other mechs, and if you DO buy mechs with C-bills still? Then you'll need to buy not only a new engine, a few double heat sinks, and maybe some weapons BUT you'll need to spend, in most cases, more than you spent on the mech to level it to elite!

So how will you get new mechs, if you're still playing? You'll need to buy MC! You could use MC to elite a mech, too, so either way you're spending real money. If you're a fat whale with money to burn you could buy a mechpack ($20-70) AND MC ($7-100) but you'll only just elite the mechs you recently bought!

Please, PGI. Remove the C-bill cost. The only currency we should spend is XP, and maybe some MC to re-spec. Encourage us to buy multiple variants, not discourage us from spending any money or even playing this game.

Pretty much this the WoC have gotten this one right in the spot. Pretty much the whole skill tree revamp we pretty much to get people to spend large amounts of money to MC (mostly) and new model of mechpacks that mostly gonna be model after the Clan hero's.

And ah got nagging feeling during the PTS messing with the system that only reason they have the cbill cost so high, is just for that, I mean 9.1m I could use that to upgrade some my mechs that I was to lazy to swap ferro for endo and std.hs for doubles, hell even buy a few xl's. But now I feel like someone who usual bank around 20-35m cbills laying around I find little reason to go using the skill tree if all I'm doing gonna level up two or three my Timbers or 2 timbers and what other mech I decide playing.

Ah rather them let us use xp only to skill up our mechs, and a big cost in cbills to respect our mechs. But I understand PGI thing to want people to buy more mc with the new system they just have to find something better for to use mc on,

[cazidin]

Myke Pantera, on 18 February 2017 - 10:53 PM, said:

I think we can all agree that when modules are removed, PGI needs to refund the CBills invested in those. Because of that necessity most of us will have very high amounts of CBills at their disposal. All this loose CBills would break economy. If I don't care about waiting a few months longer, i get enough CBills to not having to buy a single mech pack for next 2 years or so. That is bad for PGI's business model. So CBills costs for mastering mechs. I've got no issue with that.

The thing that bothers me a lot more than the initial CBill costs for mastering a mech are the CBill costs for respecing. Trying out different builds is what makes this game fun. I can't do that with the suggested respec costs. It reduces flexibility, and with it goes some of the fun. Less fun means less reasons to play or pay.

I am also worried about the 2.4 increase in XP costs since i have a lot of mechs that are mastered, but without the additional 79250 XP required to master them again. I am also worried how i will ever master the 7 Javelins i've preordered :\

The problem here is that most of buy only a select few modules and then swap them accordingly. We simply won't get a large enough refund to re-master most, not all, just most of our stable. I would gladly write off the module refund IF and ONLY IF it meant that I wouldn't have to spend a single C-Bill on the new skill tree to elite my mechs again.

[Widowmaker1981]

cazidin, on 19 February 2017 - 07:50 AM, said:

The problem here is that most of buy only a select few modules and then swap them accordingly. We simply won't get a large enough refund to re-master most, not all, just most of our stable. I would gladly write off the module refund IF and ONLY IF it meant that I wouldn't have to spend a single C-Bill on the new skill tree to elite my mechs again.

Whereas i would be absolutely furious if the 2.5 billion cbills of modules ive bought were just deleted with no refund.. people are not all in the same situation.

[cazidin]

Widowmaker1981, on 19 February 2017 - 08:29 AM, said:

Whereas i would be absolutely furious if the 2.5 billion cbills of modules ive bought were just deleted with no refund.. people are not all in the same situation.

That's fair. So how can people with X number of modules be refunded in a meaningful way that will specifically help them without hurting them, or any new players? What about a smaller number of C-Bills, refunding the individual modules and not the duplicates? You'd still lose money, but the economy wouldn't be harmed. Maybe a C-Bill refund cap? Or just MC? You're right that players who HAVE bought that many modules must be compensated. The question is how?

[kuma8877]

cazidin, on 19 February 2017 - 07:50 AM, said:

The problem here is that most of buy only a select few modules and then swap them accordingly. We simply won't get a large enough refund to re-master most, not all, just most of our stable. I would gladly write off the module refund IF and ONLY IF it meant that I wouldn't have to spend a single C-Bill on the new skill tree to elite my mechs again.

Widowmaker1981, on 19 February 2017 - 08:29 AM, said:

Whereas i would be absolutely furious if the 2.5 billion cbills of modules ive bought were just deleted with no refund.. people are not all in the same situation.

And here is the core of the problem. As much as it sucks for the mod swapper, the only fair solution, is to do what they are doing with the planned refund. Mod swapping seems a system to help mitigate early player expenses, but not intended as the endgame ideal. Why should I, as a swapper, be granted a sweeping bonus across my entire stable of mechs because I only bought 1 of each module, vs the player who bought multiples or even full sets for each of their chassis'?

So, on a level, mod swappers kind of have to deal with the fact that PGI, while giving the option to swap, doesn't see the mod swapper as actually having "mastered" their mech chassis completely (while swapping) and thus isn't catering to those players going into the new system. We are getting back exactly what we paid into the current system.

[Felicitatem Parco]

PGI is removing the C-Bill cost of modules and replacing with a C-Bill cost for nodes.

Who ever thought there was no C-Bill cost for Mastery? Did you get a free module when you unlocked the additional Mech slot?

[Widowmaker1981]

cazidin, on 19 February 2017 - 09:01 AM, said:

That's fair. So how can people with X number of modules be refunded in a meaningful way that will specifically help them without hurting them, or any new players? What about a smaller number of C-Bills, refunding the individual modules and not the duplicates? You'd still lose money, but the economy wouldn't be harmed. Maybe a C-Bill refund cap? Or just MC? You're right that players who HAVE bought that many modules must be compensated. The question is how?

Refunding one of each module would be a pathetic gesture which would still lose me 95% of my investment...

The only way is a full refund like they are doing, along with decreasing the skill cost somewhat to help those who didnt buy all those modules. It will mean a few more people will end up uber rich, but since there isnt a trade economy in this game thats not the end of the world.

[FupDup]

Prosperity Park, on 19 February 2017 - 09:28 AM, said:

PGI is removing the C-Bill cost of modules and replacing with a C-Bill cost for nodes.

Who ever thought there was no C-Bill cost for Mastery? Did you get a free module when you unlocked the additional Mech slot?

For the hundredth time, modules can be infinitely swapped for free. The new system costs MORE in the long run.

[Rogue Jedi]

Llymrel, on 18 February 2017 - 07:50 PM, said:

If people buy MC to level fast like in Clash of Clans, all the better.

MC will not allow you to level any faster, there was no option to spend MC on skills, however you could use MC or real money to buy packs, which is the origional point of this thread

[Battlemaster56]

Rogue Jedi, on 19 February 2017 - 10:30 AM, said:

MC will not allow you to level any faster, there was no option to spend MC on skills, however you could use MC or real money to buy packs, which is the origional point of this thread

On pts I did believe I level up my Scorch with MC, as I didn't have enough legacy xp to completely lvl the mech.