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60204 Players: What Does That Mean For The Game


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#21 LordNothing

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Posted 20 February 2017 - 04:47 AM

i cant imagine the game staying like this forever. whats the minimum number of players this game can actually support on the mechpack model? make me wonder if the currently announced batch of new features might be the last. will skill trees bring back the players? what about new assault (whatever they renamed it to), or 3060 tech? is this pgi grasping at straws trying to keep the game afloat long enough to finish their next product, mw5.

before that happens numbers might sag low enough where they might have to merge fp and qp, or discontinue matchmaking services simply on the grounds that there arent enough players to support them. or drop games to 8v8. on the other hand these new features might bring back lost players and actually increase numbers. but these will likely only be temporary surges. mwo cant last forever.

Edited by LordNothing, 20 February 2017 - 04:48 AM.


#22 DovisKhan

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Posted 20 February 2017 - 05:01 AM

View PostSQW, on 20 February 2017 - 03:04 AM, said:


Apple and oranges.

1. COD is a console powerhouse - it's never been that popular on PC.

2. COD/Battlefield are annualized releases. They are expected to lose majority of their players quickly so people would actually buy the next year's title.

3. COD makes its money upfront from every one of the players. MWO needs a far bigger player base to have a sustained income since only 2-5% of f2p gamers actually spend money.

4. You need to look at other f2p games to see what is a healthy player base vs studio size/expense ratio and where PGI sits. Look at DOTA 2's player base and it's earning and do a ratio back onto MWO's numbers and you'll get a better idea if PGI is swimming in money or just doing okay.

5. 30k is a small number for f2p no matter how you cut it. MWO is lucky it has the mechwarrior licence and decade of fan nostalgia to cash in on.


Even on release last COD had 30k players, that's pretty ****** in comparisson

http://steamcharts.com/

^ You can see top 10 games and numbers


DOTA2 is #1, so hardly surprising. MOBA genre overal boasts larger numbers than any other, then there's MMORPGs and so on.

I highly doubt PGI is swimming in money Valve style, but they're doing extremely well for a several year old f2p title in a fps genre

#23 Mystere

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Posted 20 February 2017 - 09:37 AM

View PostJehofi, on 20 February 2017 - 02:05 AM, said:

Why are you playing the guessing game?

Just use the information that is available:
http://i.imgur.com/PhpXDca.png
https://www.reddit.c...player_numbers/

Seriously im sick an tired of people being to lazy to search for valid data and if they get it presented not understanding statistics.
This is not about what YOU think!

View PostAlistair Winter, on 20 February 2017 - 02:11 AM, said:

We've known for at least 4 months that the MWO population is likely somewhere around ~50,000. As others have mentioned, many people are using alt accounts.

50,000 is pretty good, considering this is a 5 year old niche game. It's also clearly relatively stable, the numbers aren't dropping fast.

The sky doesn't appear to be falling down.


Frankly, I am more interested in how many play concurrently at any given time as that directly affects player variety.

#24 Alex Morgaine

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Posted 20 February 2017 - 11:07 AM

well sure isn't WOW thats for sure.

<---- haven't dropped in a match in a few weeks. burnout.

#25 Rakshasa

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Posted 20 February 2017 - 01:18 PM

It means 60,203 other players are trying to kill me. Even when they're on my team. Especially when they're on my team! D:

#26 Stone Wall

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Posted 20 February 2017 - 02:31 PM

View PostPhoenixFire55, on 20 February 2017 - 01:04 AM, said:

60k unique accounts. Probably about 20-30k actual players. No more than 5k actually active players (i.e. more than a couple drops a day). 5k is a sad number for a multiplayer game, or any game tbh ...


Keep in mind this game is free too. It seems games that you pay for up front keeps players for longer.

Edited by Stone Wall, 20 February 2017 - 02:31 PM.


#27 SQW

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Posted 20 February 2017 - 04:51 PM

View PostDovisKhan, on 20 February 2017 - 05:01 AM, said:


Even on release last COD had 30k players, that's pretty ****** in comparisson

DOTA2 is #1, so hardly surprising. MOBA genre overal boasts larger numbers than any other, then there's MMORPGs and so on.

I highly doubt PGI is swimming in money Valve style, but they're doing extremely well for a several year old f2p title in a fps genre


Using steam to gauge COD player numbers is like using Halo War 2 to judge the health of RTS genre on PC platform. =P

It's a rough estimate but f2p earnings are notoriously hard to get so I will use big two as a baseline.
Dota 2 has 13 million active players earning Valve around $18 million per month so roughly $1.40 per person per month.
LOL has 67 million and made $1.2 billion in 2015 so $1.50 per person per month.
MWO has around 40k active players so you are looking at about $55k in revenue per month.

MWO's mech pack business model will skew that number a bit but that $1.50 is probably your industry average for f2p games. Oh, it also shows you how MUCH PGI needs those mech packs to keep the lights on.

So MWO is keeping the lights on and a couple of staff fed while leaving a bit extra for the piggy bank. Devoting any more employees to actually make new features for MWO would instantly cut that into the red so unless Russ believes the new feature will bring people in droves, we'll be stuck in maintenance mode for the foreseeable future.

#28 Alan Davion

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Posted 20 February 2017 - 04:52 PM

View PostLordNothing, on 20 February 2017 - 04:47 AM, said:

i cant imagine the game staying like this forever. whats the minimum number of players this game can actually support on the mechpack model? make me wonder if the currently announced batch of new features might be the last.


It depends on what their operating costs are. Does anyone know how many people PGI employs?

Just for the sake of experimentation, let's say PGI needs a million bucks a year to stay afloat. That's $1,000,000.00

Under the current mech pack pricing model, of $70 for the top flight, get absolutely everything pack, they would need roughly 14,285 people buying that top flight pack. Keep in mind that is 14,285 people buying one $70 mech pack in a year.

Now seeing as there's 1 mech pack a month, for 12 mechs a year, they'd only need about 1,200 people to buy that months mech. Those same 1,200 people wouldn't need to buy the next months pack, but 1,200 different people would.

Of course that's under the current system. Sometime in the next few months they're supposedly changing how the system will work, probably reducing the prices due to their elimination of the "rule of 3" due to the new skill system.

#29 SQW

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Posted 20 February 2017 - 06:41 PM

Google says PGI has 63 employees. Either PGI has other games in development or they counted the fishes in their tank as employees because 63 monkeys banging on keyboards for 4 years probably would have gotten more MWO features out than PGI.

As a comparison HBS also has 60 or so employees and they've can burn through $1M in just few months during Battletech development.

It's pretty obvious Russ hasn't regarded MWO as a priority for a long time. $55k a months is a pittance in decal/mc sales so everything is dependent on the monthly mech packs to bring home the bacon and that particular cow is also fast running out of milk too. MW5 is their attempt to get back in the traditional business model where they can at least get a good chunk of money out of a single player game...if they don't mess up.

Anyone who ever wondered why MWO hasn't seen any meaningful development since CW 1.0 was first introduced, other than constant mech packs, need only look at the numbers.

#30 Andi Nagasia

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Posted 20 February 2017 - 06:50 PM

@SQW
PGI has made great strides in enhancing MWOs experience since CW 1.0,
many things have been changed added or reworked and refined since then,

also PGI as MWO must be doing well because there is no MW5 crowd Funding going on,
so we can assume they are doing well enough to self invest in MW5 with out Community support,
at least at this time,

#31 SQW

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Posted 20 February 2017 - 07:18 PM

View PostAndi Nagasia, on 20 February 2017 - 06:50 PM, said:

@SQW
PGI has made great strides in enhancing MWOs experience since CW 1.0,
many things have been changed added or reworked and refined since then,

also PGI as MWO must be doing well because there is no MW5 crowd Funding going on,
so we can assume they are doing well enough to self invest in MW5 with out Community support,
at least at this time,


Since CW 1.0, it has changed its name, got a drop deck, got rid of factions, gave planet owners some inconsequential rewards and introduced scouting mode. That's it, that's all the meaningful changes it has made. Oh, rolling in QP maps finally made FP interesting but the game play mechanic is exactly the same as CW 1.0 or QP because there's no strategic layer - just endless Team Death Matches.

Given PGI's track record, I'd be more surprised if PGI dare to ask the same people who funded MWO to take another leap of faith with MW5. We also don't know anything about MW5's development cycle yet so PGI can very well be shopping for an investor/publisher with that mechcon tech demo - most traditionally made games do not proceed beyond a tech demo if no investors are found to fund full development.

Mech pack has been a gold mine for PGI - something LOL and DOTA2 couldn't copy - but using that money to fund MW5 when MWO still falls so short of its KS goals is a kick in the teeth to its most loyal player base. They better hope MW5 comes out before people stop buying mech packs or this house of card is coming down.

#32 Dino Might

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Posted 20 February 2017 - 07:45 PM

View PostMystere, on 19 February 2017 - 01:10 PM, said:

60,000 is called "an OK day" in War Thunder. Posted Image


I throw up in my mouth a little whenever I see that game mentioned. Why oh why couldn't low tier simulation mode be popular? I can't grind up the suckfest that is realistic (arcade) mode (still better than steering wheel mode) to higher tier planes just to play a simplified sim game.

Still, despite my disdain for mouse-auto-fly/aim, I do appreciate that it's getting more people interested in flying games. Hopefully, a fraction of them make the leap to sims like P3D, DCS, and X-plane.

Edited by Dino Might, 20 February 2017 - 07:46 PM.


#33 Mystere

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Posted 20 February 2017 - 08:09 PM

View PostDino Might, on 20 February 2017 - 07:45 PM, said:

I throw up in my mouth a little whenever I see that game mentioned. Why oh why couldn't low tier simulation mode be popular? I can't grind up the suckfest that is realistic (arcade) mode (still better than steering wheel mode) to higher tier planes just to play a simplified sim game.

Still, despite my disdain for mouse-auto-fly/aim, I do appreciate that it's getting more people interested in flying games. Hopefully, a fraction of them make the leap to sims like P3D, DCS, and X-plane.


Realistic and arcade modes in WT are two different things. As such, did you actually mean something else? Posted Image

In any case, I am finding it much more fun than MWO right now.

Edited by Mystere, 20 February 2017 - 08:10 PM.


#34 Dr Hobo

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Posted 20 February 2017 - 08:14 PM

View PostMystere, on 20 February 2017 - 08:09 PM, said:


Realistic and arcade modes in WT are two different things. As such, did you actually mean something else? Posted Image

In any case, I am finding it much more fun than MWO right now.



I've rather been enjoying about anything *else* other than MWO. I've been playing Star Citizen a lot. Spin Tires,My Summer Car,etc.

I mean. I dunno. I want to love MWO. I love mechs. And TT Battletech. But even the light at the end of the tunnel that MW Mercs 5 is fairly dim.

#35 LordNothing

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Posted 21 February 2017 - 12:00 AM

View PostAlan Davion, on 20 February 2017 - 04:52 PM, said:


It depends on what their operating costs are. Does anyone know how many people PGI employs?

Just for the sake of experimentation, let's say PGI needs a million bucks a year to stay afloat. That's $1,000,000.00

Under the current mech pack pricing model, of $70 for the top flight, get absolutely everything pack, they would need roughly 14,285 people buying that top flight pack. Keep in mind that is 14,285 people buying one $70 mech pack in a year.

Now seeing as there's 1 mech pack a month, for 12 mechs a year, they'd only need about 1,200 people to buy that months mech. Those same 1,200 people wouldn't need to buy the next months pack, but 1,200 different people would.

Of course that's under the current system. Sometime in the next few months they're supposedly changing how the system will work, probably reducing the prices due to their elimination of the "rule of 3" due to the new skill system.


you have to consider future games too. when mw5 comes out it will draw a lot of revenue for that as well, and by that time they will likely be working on something else. so pgi will have other revenue streams to fund mwo with, at least at a maintenance level.

there will likely be a few stages to the endgame. at first its going to go on as it is now.

then the feature mill will shut down, the mech packs will still come during this time, but that will be all the new content we will get. no maps, no code changes, and very few if any balance tweaks or f2p events (events might only be open to those who bought mech packs as kind of a sales pitch). this will fund the servers. the servers will of course be scaled down to match the population, and they might close down euro and/or oceanic (whatever has the least population at the time).

as sales taper off, or if mech packs dont pay for themselves anymore, then it will be the final stage of the end game. mwo will just be a money sink for pgi and its best to contain those losses. they can open the server side assets so players can run private servers, or they could go on a subscription service, they could let it fizzle and die, or they could replace it with a sequel.

#36 tokumboh

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Posted 21 February 2017 - 04:00 AM

Actually I stand corrected it is closer to 40K than 60K on this seasons overall figures
So my apologies for misleading people I picked the wrong season we are currently in season 8, I am not sure why I picked season 3. As an aside I noticed that everyone this season had played more at least 10 games which may be due to the competitions on whereas in the season I did look at in detail there was alot of people whom played it once

https://mwomercs.com...age=1905&type=0

However the point I am trying to make still stands how do we consolidate the players we have in to a meaningful group for games such that beginners are not mixing with expert players and there is enough depth for the expert players.

#37 SQW

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Posted 21 February 2017 - 05:41 AM

View Posttokumboh, on 21 February 2017 - 04:00 AM, said:

Actually I stand corrected it is closer to 40K than 60K on this seasons overall figures
So my apologies for misleading people I picked the wrong season we are currently in season 8, I am not sure why I picked season 3. As an aside I noticed that everyone this season had played more at least 10 games which may be due to the competitions on whereas in the season I did look at in detail there was alot of people whom played it once

https://mwomercs.com...age=1905&type=0

However the point I am trying to make still stands how do we consolidate the players we have in to a meaningful group for games such that beginners are not mixing with expert players and there is enough depth for the expert players.



Are there ways? Yes. Can PGI be counted on to implement them in a competent and timely manner? AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

#38 Mawai

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Posted 21 February 2017 - 05:48 AM

View PostProbably Not, on 19 February 2017 - 11:10 AM, said:

In regards to PGI supposedly catering to the vocal minority: How are PGI supposed to listen to a supposed majority IF THEY DON'T SPEAK UP?


Lol. PGI considers this community on the forums to be an island which they rarely if ever visit. If you want to try to say something that might be heard you need to express the idea in 140 characters on less, on twitter, and perhaps Russ will read it.

As a result, majority or minority really doesn't matter when they aren't listening anyway.

Anyway, that sounds snarky, but to be honest probably summarizes my experience on these forums except for closed beta, a few months into open beta and a few months after PGI took over full control from IGP. Other than those time windows, PGI has never seemed to pay much attention to ideas and opinions expressed here. Their connection to "special interests" appears to be completely through other channels like twitter, NGNG or others.

#39 Dr Hobo

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Posted 21 February 2017 - 07:31 AM

View PostMawai, on 21 February 2017 - 05:48 AM, said:


Lol. PGI considers this community on the forums to be an island which they rarely if ever visit. If you want to try to say something that might be heard you need to express the idea in 140 characters on less, on twitter, and perhaps Russ will read it.

As a result, majority or minority really doesn't matter when they aren't listening anyway.

Anyway, that sounds snarky, but to be honest probably summarizes my experience on these forums except for closed beta, a few months into open beta and a few months after PGI took over full control from IGP. Other than those time windows, PGI has never seemed to pay much attention to ideas and opinions expressed here. Their connection to "special interests" appears to be completely through other channels like twitter, NGNG or others.


I remember the valid concerns back in the Beta that weren't resolved today. I remember the lack of anything being done until months later.

I remember when the first hero mechs made more money(it was like double I think.. 15% vs the 30%) than the founders and by golly I remember that **** hurricane.

#40 SQW

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Posted 21 February 2017 - 04:48 PM

MWO forum to PGI is what main stream media is to Trump - FAKE NEWS!

Also, it's amazing how fawning and groveling people on Twitter are. "Great job PGI", "Love what you are doing" etc etc. Do those people play MWO at all or is MWO the ONLY online game they play? Other games have QP for people to have a break from the main meat of the game whereas in MWO, QP is the meat to keep people playing while they free beta-test FP for PGI.





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