39 replies to this topic

[DAYLEET]

that Bitching Betty wont tell you when your uac jams. You miss it when you have a single uac20 and that really ruins your push that you might have avoided.

[Alistair Winter]

For my money, the problem with the UAC jam is that there's a relatively small chance of a jam, but it makes the difference between doing 20 damage with your UAC20 when you push or a whopping 200 damage. By the time my UAC20 jams, it's quite often in a situation where it's too late for my HGN IIC to run away anyway. A single critical fumble on that D20 and your Paladin's warhammer turns into a limp trout.

[jjm1]

In the 31st century, lasers and FTL and instant communication thought-ought the galaxy have been in use for centuaries. The latest ballistic cannons however have a higher chance of jamming than Bob Marley. Sounds legit.

[kesmai]

Jam?
Me likes jam.
Strawberry jam especially.

[DAYLEET]

kesmai, on 20 February 2017 - 01:32 AM, said:

Jam?
Me likes jam.
Strawberry jam especially.

even on your radar?

Alistair Winter, on 20 February 2017 - 01:15 AM, said:

For my money, the problem with the UAC jam is that there's a relatively small chance of a jam, but it makes the difference between doing 20 damage with your UAC20 when you push or a whopping 200 damage. By the time my UAC20 jams, it's quite often in a situation where it's too late for my HGN IIC to run away anyway. A single critical fumble on that D20 and your Paladin's warhammer turns into a limp trout.

i rely on a single uac20 on 2 of my kdk, and they seem to jam a lot. Didnt notice it much on my dual uac10 on my HGN mainly because when one is down theres still the other one. It's just random really but that also means it happens at the start of a push, then its the un-jam times and then the weapon cooldown. its way long.

[PhoenixFire55]

Are you firing em with your eyes closed or smth? ... Its kinda easy to tell that your gun that is supposed to fire all the time stopped firing all the time for some reason ...

[LordNothing]

the uac is the new ppc.

remember when you only ever touched a ppc on mechs that had velocity or heat reduction quirks? ultras are a lot like that now, i only use them on mechs with jam chance quirks and even then they can be totally unusable. the exception is the ultra2, at least when in groups of 3 or more the lower jam time makes a jam less of a catastrophic failure, and thats usually because you dont miss out on a lot of damage especially if you have other weapons available. so you will see me running a lot of cacs on my clan mechs, and ac5s on is mechs.

if anything it does make the other ballistics desirable. lbs will get spread squirks and im pretty sure the cacs get something under the new skill trees. right now the choice is do you want to run something that spreads or something that doesnt benefit from modules in any way. so i really do hope squirks adds a bit of flavor to that. 3060 ballistics will be fun, but i bet they will need to revisit squirks again when those come out.

Edited by LordNothing, 20 February 2017 - 05:07 AM.

[Bud Crue]

LordNothing, on 20 February 2017 - 05:06 AM, said:

the uac is the new ppc.

remember when you only ever touched a ppc on mechs that had velocity or heat reduction quirks? ultras are a lot like that now, i only use them on mechs with jam chance quirks and even then they can be totally unusable. the exception is the ultra2, at least when in groups of 3 or more the lower jam time makes a jam less of a catastrophic failure, and thats usually because you dont miss out on a lot of damage especially if you have other weapons available. so you will see me running a lot of cacs on my clan mechs, and ac5s on is mechs.

if anything it does make the other ballistics desirable. lbs will get spread squirks and im pretty sure the cacs get something under the new skill trees. right now the choice is do you want to run something that spreads or something that doesnt benefit from modules in any way. so i really do hope squirks adds a bit of flavor to that. 3060 ballistics will be fun, but i bet they will need to revisit squirks again when those come out.

I know it was only a 10% worsening but since the last nerf pass my Jagger DD seems to constantly jam...to the point that I don't play it anymore. I simply dumped my Enforcer 5P. I have also taken off the UAC5s on all several non-quirked mechs as well, and still have several to rebuild (IIlya with 3...maybe go back to AC5s). Hell, even the Dragon with the 40% jam reduction chance lost its UAC as a single wasn't worth it and even with 40% it still seems to jam an awful lot. I think by the time I am done only the Mauler with 4 will keep them, and the Zeus with its single only because I don't have the tonnage to go up to a 10 or lbx (gotta keep the max engine because reasons). And I only play IS. When I think what this has done to clan mechs it impresses me that players of such haven't gone even more (pardon me) totally ballistic on PGI over this.

Apropos, keep the above in mind when considering the skills tree and respec costs. I have maybe seven or eight mechs that I redid after the UAC balance pass and still a few more to change out that I just haven't gotten to yet...call it a dozen; each one -under the first PTS- would be 2 mil or so to respec, all because PGI made a change. Now consider how often PGI makes these sorts of changes.

Edited by Bud Crue, 20 February 2017 - 05:34 AM.

[The Unstoppable Puggernaut]

Actually I agree with the OP, I've been running a Night Gyr with UAC20/10/5.

The first problem is that I've had all three weapons Jam so many damn times its ridiculous, I had to take it out of FW and retire it. At that point it's damn obvious you have a jam as you are sitting there ready to take on the world when it actually feels like your zipper is open.

The second problem is, during a fire fight you'd be looking at the enemies, where to move etc. If someone can tell you the weapons you are trying to fire are jammed you can retreat back asap. If my 20 jams, I kinda need to know. If it's my 5, I couldn't care less.

Overall its not needed but it'd be damn helpful given the fire fights that go on. Perhaps at least make a click sound depending on the weapon. The Streaks make a sound when trying to fire without a lock.

[Nesutizale]

What I would like to see is that the JAM mechanic is changed.
The UAC/RAC is baiscy discribed as a oversizes gattlinggun or machingun. I would like to keep this in a way that instead of timing your clicks right it emulates the mentioned behavior in that you just keep your finger pressed and fire constantly.
(Damage per shell might have to be adjusted as well as heat generation)

BUT the longer you fire, the higher the chance is that you are going to damage your guns, even to the point that you destroy it yourself.
Think of it similar to the MASC system where you have an indicator how dangerouse it is to keep the MASC going.

Naturaly there has to be some downside to firing a constant stream of shells.

1) Heat generation goes up. I don't mean it buy let the weapons produce more heat per shot but just the fact that you fire constantly generates more heat. Normaly you fire shots, then the reduction of heatsinks kicks in. Now you fire twice as fast so you get an overshoot of heat with each second shoot.
That should result in a gameplay where you can, for a short time put out a lot of damage in a burst but will also ride the red line quickly.
If thats not enough, let the weapon produce more heat the longer it fires. Like you fire one shot you get 5 heat, second shot 6, third 7 and so on.
Would have to be tested.

2) As mentioned, the longer you fire the more you can damage your gun, like with the MASC.

3) You have a longer coodown then the normal AC of teh same size and the longer you have fired your weapon the longer the cooldown will get.

[LordNothing]

one idea i had for an alternate mechanic is:

merge the double tap into a single burst
make the burst longer (more rounds)
you can fire as many rounds as you want through a hold and release mechanic
the damage per round is cannonRating / (burstLength*0.5), so a full burst is 2x damage
when you start a burst the rng determines the max number of rounds you may fire
if you try to fire more rounds than the result of the rng call, it jams.
you will always be able to fire off 1x of the guns damage rating without jamming
firing less than 1x damage reduces the cool down proportionally
jam time is based on the depth of the clip, and the cd of the weapon as well as a fixed multiplier

the mechanic can work for uac or rac, in the case of rac the heat goes up with the clip depth, racs would also have larger clips, shorter cooldowns, and a slightly longer time between rounds in the clip. should allow several seconds of continuous fire without reaching the jam threshold. jam time multiplier would be much lower as well (since the true limiting factor is heat rather than jam).

Edited by LordNothing, 20 February 2017 - 07:28 AM.

[Roadbuster]

kesmai, on 20 February 2017 - 01:32 AM, said:

Jam?
Me likes jam.
Strawberry jam especially.

DAYLEET, on 20 February 2017 - 01:36 AM, said:

even on your radar?

That's exactly what I thought too




On topic: What I hate is when the UAC(s) jam after the first shot.
You prepare to push and spit metal at your opponent, and after a initial shot your weapons stay silent.

That's why Kodiaks need multiple UACs to not feel useless.

Edited by Roadbuster, 20 February 2017 - 10:41 PM.

[Snazzy Dragon]

You could just, like, not double tap your weapon all the time and have a reliable weapon with an already crazy DPS without double tapping, and save the bursts for when you have the option to disengage quickly after a volley or you are spraying liberally at the light mech biting your ankles.

[Weeny Machine]

DAYLEET, on 20 February 2017 - 01:36 AM, said:

even on your radar?

https://youtu.be/wVRjvhnZOXA

[Coolant]

imo, too ultra's have too much firepower anyway...consider the jams + no notification except visual part of the balance

[Monkey Lover]

Don't double tap when you push.....

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

After the huge jam nerf I've mostly retired my UAC20 mechs. RIP my non meta Adders, Kit Foxes, Stormcrows, Executioners, and various heavy mechs I'd throw a UAC20 on.

Now I just have the gauss + PPC meta to enjoy or sit back with the always reliable laser vomit builds.

Meanwhile UAC boating mechs are fine.

Why did PGI even do this?

[Monkey Lover]

Dakota1000, on 20 February 2017 - 09:52 AM, said:

After the huge jam nerf I've mostly retired my UAC20 mechs. RIP my non meta Adders, Kit Foxes, Stormcrows, Executioners, and various heavy mechs I'd throw a UAC20 on.

Now I just have the gauss + PPC meta to enjoy or sit back with the always reliable laser vomit builds.

Meanwhile UAC boating mechs are fine.

Why did PGI even do this?

Uac jam quirk coming next patch (skill tree) kdk3 is happy about this

Edited by Monkey Lover, 20 February 2017 - 09:58 AM.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Monkey Lover, on 20 February 2017 - 09:58 AM, said:

Uac jam quirk coming next patch (skill tree) kdk3 is happy about this

Tried it out in the PTS, helped the KDK a bit of course, but poor old single UAC20 mechs still suffer. Would be great to have a skill that makes you unjam faster, even makes sense the pilot would learn to unjam their gun quicker over time.

[Jettrik Ryflix]

Oh no, there is a drawback to the double DPS that UACs offer? Cry me a river!