8 replies to this topic

[Andi Nagasia]

(Based off my Skill Tree Concept of Similar name)
(This system is designed to work with the New Skill Tree)

because of MWOs current Quirk implementation,
its beneficial to use many like weapons to get the most of your Quirks,
but this also leads to boating of those weapons, hurting diversity,

so the idea is then how to encourage taking many different types of weapons,
wail also not making Quirks so specific that only only 1-2 builds are possible,
below is what i think would be a stable solution to boating and diversity,


=Quirk Draw, Weapon Concept=
the Concept is that all Like weapons are grouped together,
(Lasers)(Pulse)(PPC)(AC)(UAC)(LBX)(Gauss)(LRM)(SRM),
using less weapons of like Type will yield a higher Quirk Value,

a LCT with 1SL should not have the same Quirk %s as a LCT with 6SLs,
i think Mechs with Fewer Equipped Weapons should get higher Quirk Percents,
For those weapons Equipped, Buffing Weapon diversity,


=0=Formula=0=
(#Weapons(By Type) + 1 / #Weapons(By Type))

LCT-1V = 1SL
(1SL +1 / 1SL = 2.00)
all Energy Quirks x2.00,
(as SL are part of the Laser Tree)

LCT-1M = 2SL
(2SL +1 / 2SL = 1.50)
all Energy Quirks x1.50,
(as SL are part of the Laser Tree)

LCT-PB = 4SL
(4SL +1 / 4SL = 1.25)
all Energy Quirks x1.25,
(as SL are part of the Laser Tree)

LCT-3M = 5SL
(5SL +1 / 5SL = 1.20)
all Laser Tree Quirks x1.20,
(as SL are part of the Laser Tree)

LCT-1E = 6SL
(4SL +1 / 4SL = 1.16)
all Energy Quirks x1.16,
(as SL are part of the Laser Tree)

this would be a Dynamic System,
that would look at how many of each weapon you have(By Type)
then increase your Quirks based on you Diversifying your outload,

a MAL-P would get Higher Quirk Percents for taking:
2UAC5s(UAC Tree) +2AC5s(AC Tree) as both would get x1.5 Quirks,

a CN9-D would get Higher Quirk Percents for taking:
1LBX10(LBX Tree) & 2SRM6(SRM Tree) & (2ML(Laser Tree)
as the LBX Tree would get x2 Quirks & the others would get x1.5 Quirks,

this would help make weapon diversity more of a Choice in the New Skill Tree,
(and lessening the Straight Weapon Boating the Tree Currently Supports)


as you can see this formula would buff Mechs & Trees by Mixing Weapons,
Mechs like the LCT-1V, CDA-3M, CN9-A, HBK-4H, having 1E or 1B would benefit,
and it being a formula could be easily incorporated into the Skill Tree,

im posting this here in General Discussion as to get your thoughts,
on if this would be a viable solution to Boating, with / without the New Skill Tree,
Could this Solve some of the Problems we see in MWO?


=(Link to PTS Topic / Poll)=

Thoughts, Comments, Concerns?
Thanks

[Snazzy Dragon]

No

PGI needs to continue focusing on selling power creep in the form of clan mechs and omni pods and clan heroes with superior options available to them, along with shifting quirk power from inner sphere to clan

Spoiler

:^)

[Andi Nagasia]

this guy ^ , Snazzy why you always teasing?

[Metus regem]

No.

Quirks should support the lore and the stock weapons load out of a mech.

For instance the Thunderbolt is known to be tough as nails, so it should have armour and structure quirks, it is also know for having a very powerful large laser, so it should have a duration quirk for a large laser.

Mechs like the Warhammer 6R should never have gotten the general ballistic quirks it did, PPC fine, lasers fine, SRM's sure. But general ballistic quirks on a mech that only ever carrier a pair of MG's just stinks of someone trying to push their agenda on the flavor of a mech.

[Andi Nagasia]

i think its more many complained and wanted more general quirks, so thats just what happened,
i can understand wanting lore in my builds but sometimes people just want to have fun,

spacific quirks took away some of the fun because of how they worked,
you will end up having 6 mechs just because they are better (long/medium/short) range,
this is ok for those who have many mechs, but for those with limited mech bays & new players its hard,
so they took out very spacific quirks, and worked more with general quirks,

this system says that if your VND-1AA was well known for PPCs,
and they cant have great PPC quirks because someone may Boat 2-3 of them,
this system would allow those want to only mount 1PPC get better PPC quirks,
then someone running 2ppcs and such should get less Quirks,
the same can be said with other mechs boating weapons,

this system would curb boating,
by incentivizing taking less weapons or mixed weapons as it would give better bonuses,
a HBK-4P with -Energy heat would get better heat efficiency taking 3MPLs + 3MLs vs 6MPLs or 6MLs,

[Metus regem]

Andi Nagasia, on 20 February 2017 - 03:26 PM, said:

i think its more many complained and wanted more general quirks, so thats just what happened,
i can understand wanting lore in my builds but sometimes people just want to have fun,

spacific quirks took away some of the fun because of how they worked,
you will end up having 6 mechs just because they are better (long/medium/short) range,
this is ok for those who have many mechs, but for those with limited mech bays & new players its hard,
so they took out very spacific quirks, and worked more with general quirks,

this system says that if your VND-1AA was well known for PPCs,
and they cant have great PPC quirks because someone may Boat 2-3 of them,
this system would allow those want to only mount 1PPC get better PPC quirks,
then someone running 2ppcs and such should get less Quirks,
the same can be said with other mechs boating weapons,

this system would curb boating,
by incentivizing taking less weapons or mixed weapons as it would give better bonuses,
a HBK-4P with -Energy heat would get better heat efficiency taking 3MPLs + 3MLs vs 6MPLs or 6MLs,

Except the HBK-4P was known for packing 6MLas, so it's quirks should support 6 MLas better than 6 MPL or 3MPL+3MLas.... or if someone gets the bright idea to pack 3 LL on it... it's steping away from original equipment that should diminish quirks... then again I also think quirks should be location and hard point dependent....

[FupDup]

No, because not all weapons are created equally. Some weapons work great in low quantities, while other weapons are useless unless you boat them up the wazoo.

[FupDup]

Metus regem, on 20 February 2017 - 03:07 PM, said:

No.

Quirks should support the lore and the stock weapons load out of a mech.

For instance the Thunderbolt is known to be tough as nails, so it should have armour and structure quirks, it is also know for having a very powerful large laser, so it should have a duration quirk for a large laser.

Mechs like the Warhammer 6R should never have gotten the general ballistic quirks it did, PPC fine, lasers fine, SRM's sure. But general ballistic quirks on a mech that only ever carrier a pair of MG's just stinks of someone trying to push their agenda on the flavor of a mech.

I kind of agree with this and kind of don't. My own idea is that the quirks should be based more on a loose interpretation of the stock loadout's role rather than the literal exact things it mounted.

For example, I think an Awesome 8Q's weapon quirks shouldn't just be for normal PPCs, but also ERPPCs, Heavy PPCs, Light PPCs, Snub PPCs, and any variation of those with capacitors mounted. That Hunchie 4P's laser quirks should also apply to ERML, MPL, and MXPL. The Warhammer's MG quirks should also allow for Light MGs and Heavy MGs. Etc.

It gives a bit of wiggle room for customization while still keeping the overall intention of the mech's role/build similar, even if not 100% exactly the same.

[Lykaon]

So an artificial mechanism to support sub optimizing?

Why? Why is diversity on a single mech more important than diversity among an entire team? How is it advantageous on a whole to have all the mechs lacking in specialty?

The issue is the mechanics of the game as well as ease of use by the player encourages narrow focus in mech builds.Narrow focus in build frequently means boating.

If for example you had several LRM launchers scattered across several mechs. The added complexity of focusing fire from several mechs from several positions is not as beneficial as one or two dedicated LRM platforms.

Multiple mechs would all need to lock the same target and have range and clear fire lanes to the target,essentially not likely to occur without drilled practice. But one pilot can focus their attention on bombarding a single target and have a greater effect.

And then you have the limitations of user interface. With boated or focused weapons you will not likely need more than 3 active weapon groups. Luckily most mouses have enough buttons to accomidate 3 weapon groups.

And we have the human element. It's much easier to keep track of a couple of range brackets by limiting your weapon loadout to similarly raged weapons (or identical weapons). This frees up mental power for tasking other things like driving and aiming and general awareness is improved by having fewer other distractions to worry about.

And lastly there are weapon systems that are used in a boating configuration on several stock mechs.